Remember when you could install two 3DFX cards hooked together via SLI cable to Double your Speed?

[dWhisper]

SLI = Scan-line Interweave, so yes, each card alternated each line. Back then, AA and AF didn't exist, so it was never in the design spec. Imentioned earlier the obsidion board, which was a single-solution card. Later on in the life of the Voodoo series, they were toying with multiple devices. The Voodoo 5 actually supported up to 12 separate chips working in a processing tandem. It was designed for high-end graphics work or arcade consoles, but it never came to full fruition.

I wouldn't be surprised to see something like Hyperthreading crawl into the GPU market, as well as a more memory managed technology. Time seems to show graphics cards moving towards a more unified architecture with the rest of the system, and the CPU and GPU playing similar roles.

The nature of graphics cards has changed a lot since 3dfx and SLI technology. It's about diminishing returns. Doubling the pipelines between the Radeon 9600 and the 9800 does not give double performance. Same for double CPUs, double memory, etc.

And yes, that cable did make a difference. The SLI cable passed information to the primary card, which in turn passed information to the main video output. It was an off-board solution, so pass-through cables were needed. It got especially bad when there was a DVD decoder involved too.

 

[Rudee]

Sorry, this doesn't make you an oldtimer. Oldtimers are those who were around when "warez" was only available via BBS.

 

[Cerb]

Multi-chip solutions work fine (though are rare now, as they add complexity), multi-card solutions (including V2 SLI, Rage3D MAXX, and Volari) add latency and bandwidth bottlenecks between them, starving each GPU, and you've got the cost of two sets of chips and RAM that need duplication.
While there is nothing, aside from having no real need anymore, to keep multi-processor solutions from being effective, something like SLI is just plain stupid economically.

 

[BFG10K]

The only thing history proved was that 3dfx didn't aim high enough with the design of their chip, as in it wasn't powerful enough.

The V5 6000 would've been quite powerful if it was released but it was plagued with the inherent problems of multi-chip solutions. I mean why buy that when you could get a normal GF2 Ultra instead?

SLI technology was a REVOLUTION (here we go again...) in the 3d gaming market,

Revolution? It was pretty much over as soon as the Voodoo3 was released and it's practically extinct these days, except for the XGI board but nobody will touch that even with a stick.

and in fact doubled performance.

The 9700P doubled performance over the Ti4600 without going multi-chip.
The 6800U (and probably R420 too) doubled performance over the 9800XT without going multi-chip.

If they decided to go with a dual Ti4600 or dual 9800XT solution the result would've been monstrous, cost a lot more and also taken longer to build.

 

[BFG10K]

Apparently you weren't around in the old days of SLI or AFR, BFG.

Actually I was.

1. There was nothing that was even close to faster than the sli BFG.

That's true but that was simply because people had nothing better back then (as I already said).

I don't remember there being a lot of image degradation either.

One passthrough cable was bad enough, much less two.

2. There was no IQ degradation at all with the AFR, only some problems synching the rendering for a smooth framerates.

Where did I say there was? The degradation was caused by the external cable so how could an internal multi-chip solution have such problems? It couldn't.

The MAXX was the second fastest card you could buy behind the GFR DDR.

Exactly. Why buy the MAXX when you can buy the GF DDR? Why go multi-chip if single-chip tools it?

If it would have had DDR, it may well of been as fast.

So even with two chips and DDR it would've been equal in terms of performance. Again there's just no point in getting that over the GF DDR.

Loved my MAXX and SLI, these were truly "enthusiast" solutions. I'd buy a 9800XT MAXX today if one were available for $500.. (I bet a LOT of people would)

Nobody would, not when they could buy a faster 6800U for $400-$500.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Loved my MAXX and SLI, these were truly "enthusiast" solutions. I'd buy a 9800XT MAXX today if one were available for $500.. (I bet a LOT of people would)

Nobody would, not when they could buy a faster 6800U for $400-$500.

I think you're missing the point here, what if you could put two GF6s or RadeonXs in your machine at the same time? Granted spending $600-1000 might not be everyone's cup of tea, but I'd bet there'd be some out there willing to do it for that sheer amount of performance.

Sure, any reasonable gaming motherboard will only have a single AGP slot, but with PCI-E that should be replacing AGP would pretty much solve that problem, and I don't think it would be too terribly hard to improve technology for communication between two boards.


Would it be awesome? Yes.
Probable? No.

The only problem is that companies who are having success like ATI or nVidia won't do something like that.

IF doubling up your cards does double up your performance, then their new cores will have to be at least MORE than twice as fast as their old cores (which is a pretty demanding goal). Imagine buying the 9700Pro when it debuted at $399 and then being able to buy another one today (under $200) and getting yourself (assuming here just for example) X800Pro performance and saving yourself $200?

Can they do it? Yes.
Will they do it? I don't see why they would unless one falls behind the other enough to get desparate again, although nVidia stuck it through their FX line so I doubt nVidia will resort to such a thing.

 

[BFG10K]

Either going external or internal multi-chip the company still has to waste time and money creating an implementation that works.

I would much rather they be working on their next generation product rather than building a scenario that is unusable and/or undesirable for most people.

 

[nRollo]

Nobody would, not when they could buy a faster 6800U for $400-$500

There you go trying to speak for everyone again. Would I buy a 9800XT MAXX for $500 that was 10% slower than a 6800U? In a heartbeat.

It would just be cool to have.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

I'm sure they would as well, there's just no real reason for a company to go to a multipart gaming solution just yet. The performance would be impressive, but it would definately not work out for the best for everyone.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Nobody would, not when they could buy a faster 6800U for $400-$500

There you go trying to speak for everyone again. Would I buy a 9800XT MAXX for $500 that was 10% slower than a 6800U? In a heartbeat.

It would just be cool to have.

But at the same time you aren't thinking like ATI or nVidia, who would know through sales statistics that such a move would generate them much less $$$, which is why they exist at all.

 

[Luthien]

Hey, Rudee I was around then downloading and looking at my first naughty digital pictures, lol. Waiting ages as each tiny horizontal line of the picture would be revealed... The first pc I purchased for myself was a Tandy which I dumped in just a few months. Learned to type on a commador 64 which had a typing program. Can you say 16mhz with 24 mhz in turbo mode! Too much power captain you'll tear her apart!

 

[BFG10K]

There you go trying to speak for everyone again.

No I'm speaking for normal people.

Would I buy a 9800XT MAXX for $500 that was 10% slower than a 6800U? In a heartbeat.

Yes but your "upgrade" policy is anything but normal. No company in the world is going to model their business around people who willingly spend money to downgrade their components because such a model is doomed to a horrible failure.

As for multi-chip in general, ask most people whether they would have preferred to have the Voodoo5 5500 and Voodoo 5 6000 dropped in favour of Rampage arriving 6 months earlier and it's a no-brainer what their answer would be. Had 3dfx done this they might still be alive today.

 

[Socio]

On the SLI thing, there has already been talked about and rumored to be in the works once PCI-express has been established, some SLI type combo cards. Some of the rumored combos I have heard about are two out of the box cards linked in a type of SLI or one full PCI express based card and up to three, possibly more PCI express based 3d only daughter cards linked on one system that can be configured for either one quad gpu out put or for multiple monitor gaming outputs or One full PCI express video card, one 3d daughter card, HDTV daughter card and one video capture daughter card all linked on one system. How ever it pans out you can bet the PCI Express era will sure be interesting as far a video cards go.

 

[CZroe]

Once performance limitations were limited only by the chip. Now, the bus is also a problem. What kind of dedicated latency-free bus could connect two of the world's fastest chipsets over any distance greater than a PCB trace in real-time? There's the reason.

Originally posted by: BFG10K

It was done so it can be done again without horrible degredation of video quality couldnt it?

The minute you added the cable it degraded IQ significantly.

You, can buy dual AGP mobo's now albeit they are not in big cirulation

I haven't seen or even heard of any.

Two PCI express slots will be available within a year.

It might work with PCI-E but it'll still degrade IQ.

Yes, it was before agp I think (not positive and dont feel like looking it up but it might have been one agp and one pci, cant remember).

Actually it was two Voodoo2s each sitting in a PCI slot of their own.

It wasnt a silly idea then so why is it silly today.

Because back then people had nothing better to increase performance.

No, there was an AGP one that included an nVidia chip for 2D + a Voodoo2 using a PCI-to-AGP bridge chip.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

There you go trying to speak for everyone again.

No I'm speaking for normal people.

Would I buy a 9800XT MAXX for $500 that was 10% slower than a 6800U? In a heartbeat.

Yes but your "upgrade" policy is anything but normal. No company in the world is going to model their business around people who willingly spend money to downgrade their components because such a model is doomed to a horrible failure.

As for multi-chip in general, ask most people whether they would have preferred to have the Voodoo5 5500 and Voodoo 5 6000 dropped in favour of Rampage arriving 6 months earlier and it's a no-brainer what their answer would be. Had 3dfx done this they might still be alive today.

Gee thanks BFG. I like to try out more video cards than just the one that is best at the moment, so I'm abnormal.
If I come by the money to do so honestly, why would that be abnormal?

It does stretch the imagination to think a guy with over 2000 posts (me) in the AT video forum would like to play with video cards, doesn't it?

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: Socio
On the SLI thing, there has already been talked about and rumored to be in the works once PCI-express has been established, some SLI type combo cards. Some of the rumored combos I have heard about are two out of the box cards linked in a type of SLI or one full PCI express based card and up to three, possibly more PCI express based 3d only daughter cards linked on one system that can be configured for either one quad gpu out put or for multiple monitor gaming outputs or One full PCI express video card, one 3d daughter card, HDTV daughter card and one video capture daughter card all linked on one system. How ever it pans out you can bet the PCI Express era will sure be interesting as far a video cards go.

They tried that with video cards already. The All-in-wonder, even in its glory days that made you want to smash it with a sledge, was superior to everything but stand-alone hard-ware encoders and decoders.

Professional cards and have been will again be designed to use multiple slots. But you get into the $1k+ range with those.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: BFG10K

There you go trying to speak for everyone again.

No I'm speaking for normal people.

Would I buy a 9800XT MAXX for $500 that was 10% slower than a 6800U? In a heartbeat.

Yes but your "upgrade" policy is anything but normal. No company in the world is going to model their business around people who willingly spend money to downgrade their components because such a model is doomed to a horrible failure.

As for multi-chip in general, ask most people whether they would have preferred to have the Voodoo5 5500 and Voodoo 5 6000 dropped in favour of Rampage arriving 6 months earlier and it's a no-brainer what their answer would be. Had 3dfx done this they might still be alive today.

Gee thanks BFG. I like to try out more video cards than just the one that is best at the moment, so I'm abnormal.
If I come by the money to do so honestly, why would that be abnormal?

It does stretch the imagination to think a guy with over 2000 posts (me) in the AT video forum would like to play with video cards, doesn't it?

Oh yes, and a whole lot more than someone who's been dealing with them, on these forums alone, for at least four years now, and who's on-the-ball most of the time.
Hell, I even remember BFG10K raging about the V5.
There are few people on the forums you can trust to be right more often than BFG10K and mechBgon (not counting the people who work for AT). Oh, and VIAN :laugh: (I couldn't help it)

So far, every single-chip solution, since the TNT2 Ultra, has been overall superior (you might think IQ of the TNTs is bad now, but way back when, it was a godsend compared to Voodoo). With current technology, while designing a multi-GPU solution would work well, it's not too economically sound outside of the pro arena, and adds other costs and problems to deal with.

 

[nRollo]

So far, every single-chip solution, since the TNT2 Ultra, has been overall superior (you might think IQ of the TNTs is bad now, but way back when, it was a godsend compared to Voodoo).

Bah. The V5 was in no way "inferior" to GF2s. It ran Glide better. It had better FSAA. It had better 2d IQ. IMO, it had better 3d IQ.
The framerates were lower at times, many said it was due to lower LOD.

 

[BFG10K]

No, there was an AGP one that included an nVidia chip for 2D + a Voodoo2 using a PCI-to-AGP bridge chip.

Later on perhaps. To begin with it was just PCI since AGP didn't exist yet.

I like to try out more video cards than just the one that is best at the moment, so I'm abnormal.

You don't just try them - you buy them and replace superior cards with them. You also then start posts that put inferior cards on pedestals using ridiculous and inconsistent reasoning to back your claims.

If I come by the money to do so honestly, why would that be abnormal?

Because what you do hardly anyone else does. If you think companies are going to ship inferior products on the grounds that you like to try them then you need to step back and think about the whole situation for a minute.

It does stretch the imagination to think a guy with over 2000 posts (me) in the AT video forum would like to play with video cards, doesn't it?

I've tried plenty of cards in my time as well, far more than I actually owned. The difference is that I never allowed the act of trying them to replace the carefully considered card that I actually owned. I also didn't get deluded about the capabilities (or lack of) of those cards.

The V5 was in no way "inferior" to GF2s. It ran Glide better. It had better FSAA. It had better 2d IQ. IMO, it had better 3d IQ.

The V5 was a good card no doubt about it but I think the GTS was the superior gaming card. It was faster and it had T&L which was already important back then. As for 3D IQ, the V5 might've won in AA and TC but the GTS had the option of using 2xAF and it also supported true trilinear which the V5 did not.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: Rollo

So far, every single-chip solution, since the TNT2 Ultra, has been overall superior (you might think IQ of the TNTs is bad now, but way back when, it was a godsend compared to Voodoo).

Bah. The V5 was in no way "inferior" to GF2s. It ran Glide better. It had better FSAA. It had better 2d IQ. IMO, it had better 3d IQ.
The framerates were lower at times, many said it was due to lower LOD.

Let's compare the IQ of a Leadtek GF2 (even back then we knew that was the one for 2d IQ), and STB Voodoo 5. The differences are going to be too minimal to worry about. Better FSAA? How was it better?

Not to mention, by the time GF2 Ultra came out, there was no comparison: the GF2 GTS offered the best bang for the buck, at around $130.
Glide, Glide...yes, that thing that fell off a cliff and caused HL and Tribes guys to fix OpenGL. I remember that...

 

[lowpost]

I loved my voodoo card until nvidia released the TNT w/ 32 bit color...

quake 2 never looked so good.

 

[nRollo]

BFG:

You don't just try them - you buy them and replace superior cards with them. You also then start posts that put inferior cards on pedestals using ridiculous and inconsistent reasoning to back your claims.

As the longest I have ever owned a video card is about 8 months, it could pretty honestly be said that I'm just "trying" them all. Since I can afford to use whatever video card I like, don't you think it's likely that if these supposedly "inferior" cards actually were inferior, I'd just replace them with whatever isn't? I guess I don't "try" video cards like you because I apparently don't have the same access to video cards to borrow that you do. The only other way I could do it would be to buy them and return them, which would be dishonest and cost honest men money.


Cerb: Leadtek did not sell all, most, or even a big percentage of the GF2s. If we're going to nit pick, I guess it could be said the V5 had better IQ than non Leadtek (and maybe Gainward) GF2s. Most of the rest had cheap filters.

Better FSAA? How was it better?

It reduced the jags better being rotated grid rather than ordered grid?
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1276&p=21

The Voodoo5 5500 still looks a bit washed out, but the anti-aliasing itself looks better at similar settings. Using NVIDIA's highest settings results in pretty much unplayable performance, so even though it looks about as good as 3dfx's 4X FSAA, it's not that useful.

he Voodoo5 does seem to have an advantage when it comes to FSAA but it is just a slight one under OpenGL.

 

[Soulkeeper]

BREAKING NEW:

3dfx is dead !!

 

[Gagabiji]

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: Luthien
Oh, yeah I am an old timer. I think that Nvidea or ATI could capitalize by doing the same thing with each generation of its new cards giving those ultimate FPS to those willing to PAY for it. BTW, yes I did it mayself with the 3DFX cards. I remember wishing I could do it with three cards. Long time ago so dont remember the details very well. I think I was impressed with my 100FPS or something with Quake one. Just imagine two 6800U hooked together doubling their performance.

Do they sell 900 watt PSUs? Or would you have to have twin 500s?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I had an SLI setup back in the day - $560, plus the cost of the main video card. Those were the days . . .