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remember the day after 9/11...

JSt0rm

JSt0rm

Lifer
Everything changed. The entire world was different. Do you see the same thing happening because of this oil leak? Or its not that important?
 
JSt0rm01 said:
Everything changed. The entire world was different. Do you see the same thing happening because of this oil leak? Or its not that important?
Click to expand...



I remember that for the first time in my life I could look up and see no jets in the air for a long time ... all because 19 fanatics took down some planes with box cutter knifes.
 
crabs covered in oil will never compare to over a thousand human deaths and the destruction of property that people actually care about.
 
loki8481 said:
crabs covered in oil will never compare to over a thousand human deaths and the destruction of property that people actually care about.
Click to expand...

Well lets see how it plays out. I think a lot of people care about that property down there.
 
Everybody felt nice and safe in America, all the violence was overseas. We were protected by two oceans. 9/11 changed that.

What changed with the oil spill? It isn't a nearly instantaneous incident; 9/11 took a matter of hours, this has been days and days; that already lessens the shock of it. Images have been restricted, something that was impossible to do in NYC and DC. This is more akin to a Katrina, as much as I hate using that for the inevitable Bush/Obama screaming to follow. It's a long-term economic damage that people in one section (for now) of the United States will be stuck with, but 9/11 changed the lives for everyone across the country, our entire foreign policy, every politician and election since then, and more.

No, OP, I don't see a good comparison.
 
JSt0rm01 said:
Everything changed. The entire world was different. Do you see the same thing happening because of this oil leak? Or its not that important?
Click to expand...
I think its changed somewhat. By that I mean, its open the general public eye's to the real risks of drilling offshore and in deep ocean in which they demand more accountability from the oil companies and hopefully make a real push to alternative energy.
 
Oh yes, yes I remember the days after 911, that feeling of being sucker punched, and the only definitive answer we had was GWB reading school children my Pet Duck.

Soon to follow were the surrender our all constitutional rights Patriot act and the twin Quagmires in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Now we ask, can we be smarter this damn time by making sure to have the oil company regulations needed to prevent similar incidents in the future?
 
I doubt we see any change. Even if it takes till August to stop the oil.
Bottom line is everyone wanted, and wants cheap gas. We get cheap gas when
we drill off our shore. We get cheap gas when we drill cutting corners.
We get cheap gas when we let companies like BP run amuck unregulated.
After this is all over, we will still want our cheap gas.
Everyone is in this together and shares the blame. We are just as guilty as BP.
But we don't want to face that now do we...
 
Lemon law said:
Oh yes, yes I remember the days after 911, that feeling of being sucker punched, and the only definitive answer we had was GWB reading school children my Pet Duck.

Soon to follow were the surrender our all constitutional rights Patriot act and the twin Quagmires in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Now we ask, can we be smarter this damn time by making sure to have the oil company regulations needed to prevent similar incidents in the future?
Click to expand...

That Obama and the Democrats have continued.
 
Nine years after 9-11 Obama and Dems have made terrorists a protected class, while calling citizens protesting over nuclear debt and health-care potential terrorists. The "leak" isn't a crisis in DC as much as its an opportunity.
 
The only way this has a lasting impact is if Obama and the left ban all off shore drilling and cause the price of gas to spike.

Otherwise we clean it up and life moves on. A decade from now most people will hardly even notice that the spill happened. Sadly parts of the gulf maybe feeling the effects of the oil spill for decades.
 
ProfJohn said:
The only way this has a lasting impact is if Obama and the left ban all off shore drilling and cause the price of gas to spike.

Otherwise we clean it up and life moves on. A decade from now most people will hardly even notice that the spill happened. Sadly parts of the gulf maybe feeling the effects of the oil spill for decades.
Click to expand...

The ecological impact of this can and probably will be felt for decades despite our best cleanup efforts. Higher gas prices due to a ban on new offshore drilling would be the lesser part of the total impact.
 
MovingTarget said:
The ecological impact of this can and probably will be felt for decades despite our best cleanup efforts. Higher gas prices due to a ban on new offshore drilling would be the lesser part of the total impact.
Click to expand...
what actual direct impact will the ecological issues cause for Joe American living thousands of miles away from the gulf, though?
 
JSt0rm01 said:
Everything changed. The entire world was different. Do you see the same thing happening because of this oil leak? Or its not that important?
Click to expand...

It is important. It is just not the same though as a terrorist group killing 3,000 innocent people... some of whom were just babies.
 
ProfJohn said:
The only way this has a lasting impact is if Obama and the left ban all off shore drilling and cause the price of gas to spike.

Otherwise we clean it up and life moves on. A decade from now most people will hardly even notice that the spill happened. Sadly parts of the gulf maybe feeling the effects of the oil spill for decades.
Click to expand...

Oddly enough, I agree with you about this...life does indeed move on. Bad things happen, we recover, learn what we can to prevent them in the future, and move on.

Then again, I'd say the same thing about 9/11. Obviously the scale, impact and importance aren't the same...but "everything changed on 9/11" is rhetorical nonsense. I definitely wouldn't apply that sort of language to an oil spill, but I wouldn't really apply it to anything short of a cataclysmic event.

I don't think making our entire national policy about bad events in a healthy thing to do...it turns reaction into obsession, and results in ill considered decisions because we're not "allowed" to take other factors into account. Your example of banning all offshore drilling is perfect, because it's exactly the kind of one-issue thinking that results from "we must not let this happen again, no matter what the cost"...otherwise known as "everything changed".

But sadly, while I think we'll avoid overreaction with the oil spill, I think it will be because most people don't CARE about spilling oil into the gulf and devastating sea life...not because they realize overreaction would be stupid.
 
loki8481 said:
what actual direct impact will the ecological issues cause for Joe American living thousands of miles away from the gulf, though?
Click to expand...

Well, if Joe American is smart enough to realize that we live in an interconnected society, he'd care about the issue even if DOESN'T directly affect him. But I'm not holding my breath on that being the majority reaction...
 
Not as life changing as 9/11 but it will change things in the gulf states for some time. The combination of the ixtoc blowout in 79 and a couple of tanker spills in the 80's, we dealt with tar balls washing up on the Texas beaches for almost a decade, I suspect this will be similar
 
Unlike 9/11 I think it remains to be seen how this will play politically and socially. Unfortunately humans just are designed to care about polluted water in a distant part of the country. Contrast with that humans react when they feel their group is under attack.
 
Lemon law said:
Now we ask, can we be smarter this damn time by making sure to have the oil company regulations needed to prevent similar incidents in the future?
Click to expand...

There are regulations. Everything is regulated out the wazoo. The problem is with the humans enforcing those regulations. They tend to care more about porn, meth, and some free beach trips.
 
Rainsford said:
Oddly enough, I agree with you about this...life does indeed move on. Bad things happen, we recover, learn what we can to prevent them in the future, and move on.

Then again, I'd say the same thing about 9/11. Obviously the scale, impact and importance aren't the same...but "everything changed on 9/11" is rhetorical nonsense. I definitely wouldn't apply that sort of language to an oil spill, but I wouldn't really apply it to anything short of a cataclysmic event.

I don't think making our entire national policy about bad events in a healthy thing to do...it turns reaction into obsession, and results in ill considered decisions because we're not "allowed" to take other factors into account. Your example of banning all offshore drilling is perfect, because it's exactly the kind of one-issue thinking that results from "we must not let this happen again, no matter what the cost"...otherwise known as "everything changed".

But sadly, while I think we'll avoid overreaction with the oil spill, I think it will be because most people don't CARE about spilling oil into the gulf and devastating sea life...not because they realize overreaction would be stupid.
Click to expand...

Overreaction...

It's stupid to base policy on emotion any time of the day/month/year. Politicians use emotion to control the populace and remove liberties. The Patriot Act is just such a beast. Calling it the "Patriot Act" basically assured that it would be passed, not on its merits (it's unconstitutional), but through emotion alone.

I think that, while it may not be the goal, the government squelching images and media relating to the oil spill is helping to keep the emotions out of this one. Someone fucked up, it'll be cleaned up, and that's that. What we don't need is panderers showing pictures of black beaches and calling for a wholesale ban on ALL oil. Restricting media availability effectively keeps that from happening.

An accident like this should NOT be a platform for pushing an adjenda such as "alternative energy". "Alternative energy" is not yet economically viable. Hybrid cars are too expensive for the vast majority, even counting tax credits, and most of our electricity is still generated from oil and coal plants making all-electric cars completely pointless. Ethanol is not efficient enough and too expensive to be viable at this particular point, and hydrogen is years away from mass market. There will be an alternative to cheap oil, it just doesn't exist right now. Until it's developed, we need to keep using the 100+ years of oil we have left. Government subsidies to push one "alternative" or another is counterproductive to the market as a whole.

We can hope that the current administration does nothing with this spill.
 
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