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Remember that lame shoe bomber? Judge shows his a$$ up in court.

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Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: Phokus
His response: After admitting his guilt to the court for the record, Reid also admitted his "allegiance to Osama bin Laden, to Islam, and to the religion of Allah," defiantly stated "I think I ought not apologize for my actions," and told the court "I am at war with your country."
Click to expand...

Hey wingzero, good job not posting the whole transcript and making it look like reid only pledged his allegiance to osama bin laden and stated he was at war with America:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/01/31/reid.transcript/

REID: I further admit my allegiance to Osama bin Laden, to Islam, and to the religion of Allah. With regards to what you said about killing innocent people, I will say one thing. Your government has killed 2 million children in Iraq. If you want to think about something, against 2 million, I don't see no comparison.

Your government has sponsored the rape and torture of Muslims in the prisons of Egypt and Turkey and Syria and Jordan with their money and with their weapons. I don't know, see what I done as being equal to rape and to torture, or to the deaths of the two million children in Iraq.

So, for this reason, I think I ought not apologize for my actions. I am at war with your country. I'm at war with them not for personal reasons but because they have murdered more than, so many children and they have oppressed my religion and they have oppressed people for no reason except that they say we believe in Allah.

This is the only reason that America sponsors Egypt. It's the only reason they sponsor Turkey. It's the only reason they back Israel.

As far as the sentence is concerned, it's in your hand. Only really it is not even in your hand. It's in Allah's hand. I put my trust in Allah totally and I know that he will give victory to his religion. And he will give victory to those who believe and he will destroy those who wish to oppress the people because they believe in Allah.

So you can judge and I leave you to judge. And I don't mind. This is all I have to say. And I bear witness to Muhammad this is Allah's message.
Click to expand...

While reid is a terrorist, he still made some important points about american foreign policy. The judge's response was 'you hate freedom' which is a stupid response.

And btw, muslims don't 'hate our freedom'... they hate our policies. Even the pentagon agrees:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1129/dailyUpdate.html
Click to expand...
he posted an email forward of the transcript, but still it was all said, just parts were omitted.

and if you are siding with Reid, i spit in your face. :|
Click to expand...

I don't 'side with reid' you imbecile, he tried to kill innocent people, but to say he doesn't have any salient points in his diatribe points to why this country is permanantly f*cked with attitudes like that. People need to learn more about history and current world affairs and take off their patriotic blinders. Sheesh, it's no wonder why i joined the libertarian party.

Edit: and from wingzero's pm response, it doesn't sound like he posted an email forward.
Click to expand...
don't revert to name calling. :roll:
i thought you appeared to be sympathizing with the shoe bomber, but now that i see you are libertarian that explains your attitude.
Click to expand...


I'm 'siding' with the shoe bombers in the sense that he's almost entirely correct about our foreign policy and it's a MAJOR reason why the arab world (terrorist and non-terrorist) hates america. Even the pentagon agrees with this assessment. http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1129/dailyUpdate.html

http://www.acq.osd.mil/dsb/reports/2004-09-Strategic_Communication.pdf

I DON'T side with his attempted murder innocent americans. however, i completely understand his motive.
 
Originally posted by: Ulfwald
I like that judge.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:

That Reid guy doesn't seem to smart though. If he only took some anger-management classes instead, and learned to nef in ATOT, instead of ... well, making "shoe bombs", then he wouldn't be in the situation that he is in now. What a maroon.

 
Put those explosive shoes back on his feet and set them off. He was so intent on it that it would be a shame to ruin his fun.

Then give a pair to Phuk-us. Did I spell that right?
 
Originally posted by: Mo0o
Originally posted by: neutralizer
Originally posted by: Mo0o
He's going to get PWNED in prison
Click to expand...

I hope he remembers not to bend over while picking up the soap in prison.
Click to expand...

I hope he gets the treatment child molesters do in prison.
Click to expand...

From what I hear, that involves daily sodomy while being bashed in the head with a combination lock and stabbed with a sharpened toothbrush.

- M4H
 
Originally posted by: moshquerade
don't revert to name calling. :roll:
i thought you appeared to be sympathizing with the shoe bomber, but now that i see you are libertarian that explains your attitude.
Click to expand...

you were the first to 'spit in his face' so to speak, and way to generalize people. the dude is just trying to be objective...
 
Originally posted by: Phokus


I DON'T side with his attempted murder innocent americans. however, i completely understand his motive.
Click to expand...

Thankfully enough people learned the lesson of WWII and how isolationism as a foreign policy is not only a complete failure, but it's just too dangerous. Isolationsim is one area I am completely opposed to when it comes to libertarian party line.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
 
Nice speech...but this may have to moved to P&N if the politicians keep yappin. 🙂
 
Originally posted by: Phokus
'siding' with the shoe bombers in the sense that he's almost entirely correct about our foreign policy and it's a MAJOR reason why the arab world (terrorist and non-terrorist) hates america.
Click to expand...

I used to believe this, but it is simply bunk. Perhaps US foreign policy made us some enemies between the 1940s and the 1990s. But now that's all a moot point. The problem is not Muslims, and it's not Arabs. The problem is a bunch of whackos, many of whom happen to be Muslim and Arab, who have been raised from birth to hate the US despite that fact that the vast majority of them can't even remember WHY they hate the US.

We could take a completely laissez faire stance to extremist governments in the Middle East and let them do as they please. We could pull out of Israel and let the chips fall where they may.

But these whackos, since they can't even remember why they hate the US, will go on hating the US and doing whatever little bit they can to try and bring the US down.

This stopped being about foreign policy some years ago.
 
Originally posted by: jjsole
The result is always frightening when someone goes home from work and watches fox news all night, moreover a judge.
Click to expand...

Every study I have seen has shown far less bias towards the right on Fox than the other news channels have towards the left.

Fox only looks so right wing to people because they have only far more biased left wing news outlets to compare it to.
 
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: jjsole
The result is always frightening when someone goes home from work and watches fox news all night, moreover a judge.
Click to expand...

Every study I have seen has shown far less bias towards the right on Fox than the other news channels have towards the left.

Fox only looks so right wing to people because they have only far more biased left wing news outlets to compare it to.
Click to expand...

Ha ha, that's a good one. Worthy of a Fox news exclusive! 😀
 
Originally posted by: Phokus
His response: After admitting his guilt to the court for the record, Reid also admitted his "allegiance to Osama bin Laden, to Islam, and to the religion of Allah," defiantly stated "I think I ought not apologize for my actions," and told the court "I am at war with your country."
Click to expand...

Hey wingzero, good job not posting the whole transcript and making it look like reid only pledged his allegiance to osama bin laden and stated he was at war with America:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/01/31/reid.transcript/

REID: I further admit my allegiance to Osama bin Laden, to Islam, and to the religion of Allah. With regards to what you said about killing innocent people, I will say one thing. Your government has killed 2 million children in Iraq. If you want to think about something, against 2 million, I don't see no comparison.

Your government has sponsored the rape and torture of Muslims in the prisons of Egypt and Turkey and Syria and Jordan with their money and with their weapons. I don't know, see what I done as being equal to rape and to torture, or to the deaths of the two million children in Iraq.

So, for this reason, I think I ought not apologize for my actions. I am at war with your country. I'm at war with them not for personal reasons but because they have murdered more than, so many children and they have oppressed my religion and they have oppressed people for no reason except that they say we believe in Allah.

This is the only reason that America sponsors Egypt. It's the only reason they sponsor Turkey. It's the only reason they back Israel.

As far as the sentence is concerned, it's in your hand. Only really it is not even in your hand. It's in Allah's hand. I put my trust in Allah totally and I know that he will give victory to his religion. And he will give victory to those who believe and he will destroy those who wish to oppress the people because they believe in Allah.

So you can judge and I leave you to judge. And I don't mind. This is all I have to say. And I bear witness to Muhammad this is Allah's message.
Click to expand...

While reid is a terrorist, he still made some important points about american foreign policy. The judge's response was 'you hate freedom' which is a stupid response.

And btw, muslims don't 'hate our freedom'... they hate our policies. Even the pentagon agrees:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1129/dailyUpdate.html
Click to expand...

I've never gotten the "hate our freedom" argument either. They certainly hate our policies - whether they be current or historical. But I've never seen anything beyond US political rhetoric to give any weight to the idea that terrorists are motivated by hate for the freedom of our society - and it certainly begs the question of why other similarly free societies don't seem to suffer the same hatred by these people that we do.

And before anybody gets all spun up - Of course Reid and the rest of the terrorists deserve everything they have coming to them. I just think we need to understand the root of the problem rather then just keep pruning the branches.
 
Originally posted by: jjsole
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: jjsole
The result is always frightening when someone goes home from work and watches fox news all night, moreover a judge.
Click to expand...

Every study I have seen has shown far less bias towards the right on Fox than the other news channels have towards the left.

Fox only looks so right wing to people because they have only far more biased left wing news outlets to compare it to.
Click to expand...

Ha ha, that's a good one. Worthy of a Fox news exclusive! 😀
Click to expand...

Well, I look for proof of this alleged bias Fox is accused of and read every study on media political bias I can find. So far, it's just as I've pointed out. Fox's right leaning bias is FAR less than the left leaning bias of the other news channels and WAY less than the big three newtworks.
 
Originally posted by: Phokus

And btw, muslims don't 'hate our freedom'... they hate our policies. Even the pentagon agrees:
Click to expand...

Of course they hate our freedom. The islamic terrorists are nothing but fascist cowards. They hate the fact that we're spreading freedom and liberty in the middle east. The side effect of that liberty is that they can no longer impose their will on the people there.
 
Originally posted by: JDub02
Originally posted by: Phokus

And btw, muslims don't 'hate our freedom'... they hate our policies. Even the pentagon agrees:
Click to expand...

Of course they hate our freedom. The islamic terrorists are nothing but fascist cowards. They hate the fact that we're spreading freedom and liberty in the middle east. The side effect of that liberty is that they can no longer impose their will on the people there.
Click to expand...

Bingo. They despise individual freedom... especially religious freedom. They rightly fear that it is the future their countries are headed towards. They seek to keep or create theocracies and viciously fight any outside or inside influence that endangers that cause.

Folks, saying you "understand" their motivation is like saying you understand the loony religious right's motivations here in the US. Was Eric Rudolph's motivations for his terrorism "understandable?" If not, why is his motivation not understandable and the loony right wing Muslim's are???
 
Originally posted by: JDub02
Originally posted by: Phokus

And btw, muslims don't 'hate our freedom'... they hate our policies. Even the pentagon agrees:
Click to expand...

Of course they hate our freedom. The islamic terrorists are nothing but fascist cowards. They hate the fact that we're spreading freedom and liberty in the middle east. The side effect of that liberty is that they can no longer impose their will on the people there.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure a lot of them object to our practices. But when a douchebag politician says, 'the terrorists 'hate' our freedom', they're implying that's the reason why they attacked us.

Let me pose this question to you, if the terrorists 'hate our freedom', do you think they hate amsterdam more? They have more freedoms than America does (you can legally smoke weed, prostitution is legal, the age of consent is lower than america). Why aren't the terrorists getting a boner about all the social freedoms that they would most likely object to in Amsterdam, which happens to be greater than our freedom?

And stop this bullshit 'spreading freedom and liberty' tripe. You sound like a republican talking point memo.
 
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: JDub02
Originally posted by: Phokus

And btw, muslims don't 'hate our freedom'... they hate our policies. Even the pentagon agrees:
Click to expand...

Of course they hate our freedom. The islamic terrorists are nothing but fascist cowards. They hate the fact that we're spreading freedom and liberty in the middle east. The side effect of that liberty is that they can no longer impose their will on the people there.
Click to expand...

Bingo. They despise individual freedom... especially religious freedom. They rightly fear that it is the future their countries are headed towards. They seek to keep or create theocracies and viciously fight any outside or inside influence that endangers that cause.

Folks, saying you "understand" their motivation is like saying you understand the loony religious right's motivations here in the US. Was Eric Rudolph's motivations for his terrorism "understandable?" If not, why is his motivation not understandable and the loony right wing Muslim's are???
Click to expand...

The pentagon disagrees with you. Just because a murderer makes a point doesn't mean he's wrong.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1129/dailyUpdate.html

If osama bin laden made the point that 'bunnies are cute' and right after he says that, i say 'I agree with him, bunnies are cute', i'd be accused of being a terrorist by you imbecile nationalists.

This is why we can't have an objective discussion in this country.
 
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: JDub02
Originally posted by: Phokus

And btw, muslims don't 'hate our freedom'... they hate our policies. Even the pentagon agrees:
Click to expand...

Of course they hate our freedom. The islamic terrorists are nothing but fascist cowards. They hate the fact that we're spreading freedom and liberty in the middle east. The side effect of that liberty is that they can no longer impose their will on the people there.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure a lot of them object to our practices. But when a douchebag politician says, 'the terrorists 'hate' our freedom', they're implying that's the reason why they attacked us.

Let me pose this question to you, if the terrorists 'hate our freedom', do you think they hate amsterdam more? They have more freedoms than America does (you can legally smoke weed, prostitution is legal, the age of consent is lower than america). Why aren't the terrorists getting a boner about all the social freedoms that they would most likely object to in Amsterdam, which happens to be greater than our freedom?

And stop this bullshit 'spreading freedom and liberty' tripe. You sound like a republican talking point memo.
Click to expand...

Amsterdam isn't a worldwide influence on other cultures. The US is.

Again, they are attacking us for the same reasons Eric Rudolph and the loony religious right in the US did. Do you "understand" Rudolph's motivations?
 
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