Religulous

[jonks]

Originally posted by: ultra laser

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: ultra laser
Maher's a secular Jew, right? I've noticed that a lot of Jews like to bash religion lately. I wouldn't buy into it.

Maher was raised in his Irish American father's Catholic religion, and did not find out that his mother was Jewish until his teenage years.

Easily Googleable, so why make a stupid supposition followed by an idiotic generalization?

What's idiotic about noticing a trend?

When it's noticing an imaginary trend, or one of such loosely affiliated connections that drawing them together and saying "aha!" is more a sign of paranoia than astute observation.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
It is my duty as a citizen to vote as I see fit. What determines my worldview, whether it's Christianity, Islam, Judaism, atheism, or what have you, will always play a role in how I vote. The argument that religion should stay out of politics is ridiculous at its core because it is akin to asking people to remove a substantial portion of their worldview from consideration when voting. It's like telling someone not to vote based on social security issues even though they're 61.5 years of age (or whatever the age is now) and SS is about to become increasingly relevant for them. People will always vote for whatever is most important to them. The more vehemently to tell them not to, the more stalwart they will be in doing it.

Okay, but aren't we taught that we should keep our own personal beliefs out when we vote?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Where in the constitution does it state one shall not use their own moral code, moral compass, or set of values to make a decision on voting, legislation, or anything else the govt does????

Perhaps you arent understanding my question. My question centers around how does one get religion out of the govt when people all have their own sets of values, often derived by a religion?

Seperation of church and state centers around the state not forcing one specific religion on you like the church of england used to do. It has nothing to do with and cant possibly stop people from making decisions based on their faith alone within govt.

Taking my money to use for "Faith based initiatives" is forcing religion on me.

Any American that does not see that is not an American.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Religulous (In HD) a Lions Gate documentary about religion. Bill Maher goes in search of answers (or lack there of) amongst the populous. Religion has hindered man for a a couple millennia and has driven the decisions of man in politics & daily life.

It's ideas like this that give atheism a bad name. Religion has done plenty of good and plenty of bad, but those that act like we can simply rid the world of religion in one fell swoop if we just "open everyone's eyes" are ignorant. We can't "eliminate" religion and I'm not even sure that's a good idea if we could. Religion has given billions of people hope and a reason to live and, yes, it has had it's issues, but everything in the history of mankind has had it's issues and instead of trying to engage in some sort of dialogue, atheists simply reinforce the view that they're stuck-up intellectuals by saying things like "religion has hindered man."

What idea? Maher, while obviously a douchebag - has a point. Religion doesn't work with politics and often conflicts with a lot of other things...

I am curious to exactly how religion doesnt work with politics anymore than any other basis for a political stance. I think this is where documentarys like this fail. They never answer these questions but instead go out of their way to mock their opponents. They tend to turn into hit pieces.

I could just as easily demonstrate secularism and godless ideology are just as evil and destructive as religion in politics. But does that really tell us anything we dont already know? And better yet how do we keep that out of politics?

The simple answer is we dont. But I am open to hear your take on how we keep it all out of politics without turning into drones that lack emotion and are simple calculating, much like a computer.

I think it's somewhat incorrect to call this film a documentary, it's more like half-comedy/half-documentary...

Most of us by far and large would agree that theocratic governments are flawed and are certainly not successful. On the flipside you could argue that secularism when taken to an extreme becomes void of any emotion and evil - example Asian Wars, Communist Russia. I'd however argue that this isn't the case and these decisions are emotional are not base upon any logic at all.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Honestly, this would be a better country if the religious would just be content to keep it to themselves, their families and fellow worshippers. Instead, a great many of them insist on injecting their religion into the public square, into politics, into scientific debate along with wearing their faith on their sleeve (and on their car's bumper/license plate), and feeling the need to proselytize to the rest of us.

Somehow I think Maher would agree with me.

there is a problem I have it with that, because it borders along the line of acting differently. What is wrong with their religion manifesting in public square? Is it wrong for a Hasidic Jew to walk around, is it wrong for a female to wear a Hijab?

There are and should be limits for both, but they should not be 100% separate. That doesn't mean there is a single method that can be applied across every situation - it should be determined on a case by case basis. But to simply say that people who espouse a religion - which is a type of philosophy - should keep it out of any public life is something i can't agree with.

No, there's nothing wrong with that, and that's not what I'm suggesting. I'm talking about erecting a giant stone cross on government grounds (or substitute a symbol of any other religion). You can wear whatever you want, obviously, however the government should strive to be effectively neutral with regards to religion. And in doing so, they ensure religious freedom (and equality) for all.

 

[soccerballtux]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
For the love country stop misquoting our founding fathers. That's so cliche.

John Adams:
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798

The first amendment was written to avoid what was going on in England at that time with the Church running the county. Let's not forget the basic laws that our country had early on about working on Sundays, mandatory church attendance... requirement of Christian profession to hold office etc... doesn't sound like the separation of church and state that I hear from your interpretation of Jefferson.

And how do you prevent the church (any church) from "running the country?" Easy. You strip them of any political power, exclude them from any government interaction and establish a religious-neutral tone in government that favors no religion (even the lack of religion - atheism).

The Founding Fathers very explicitly set up a secular state, a state with complete religious freedoms and a state free of any potential government religious coercion. That means that a Jew, Atheist, Christian or Hindu has equal rights before the law and has a right not to have any particular religion pushed on him by the government. Yet the science taught in school now days teaches science as religion, that evolution did in fact happen. Nobody was there to observe macro-evolution, nor do they have fossil samples showing the slow progression from fish to bird hence it remains a religion that the government is forcing on students.

That is the stupidest crap I've seen around here in quite some time. No one is teaching science as religion, that's your own retarded perspective interfering with reality again. Don't want your kids to learn science? Fine. Go home-school them or send them to ID-friendly church schools where they can grow up ignorant of science, but don't inflict your brand if idiocy on the rest of the kids in this country.

For fuck's sake, "nobody was there to observe evolution..." OMFG you're dumb.

It's much worse than forcing Christianity on students, at least that gives them a basis for morality.

You just spewed the second runner up for most retarded shit I think I've read in quite some time. One can have a basis for morality sans religion. What sort of arrogant shit thinks they have all the answers? You, that's who.

Pathetic.

wah.
grow up.

I think my next reply to your next post will also include lots of namecalling and angry swearing because my reply will be so empty of content and value that I won't have anything else to fill it up with. I will say things like "that is the most stupidest stuff I've seen around here in a long time" and "FFS OMFG U R STOOPID LOLlz" and similar things.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
wah.
grow up.

I think my next reply to your next post will also include lots of namecalling and angry swearing because my reply will be so empty of content and value that I won't have anything else to fill it up with. I will say things like "that is the most stupidest stuff I've seen around here in a long time" and "FFS OMFG U R STOOPID LOLlz" and similar things.

I can't help it, I'm bigoted against stupid people.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
For the love country stop misquoting our founding fathers. That's so cliche.

John Adams:
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798

The first amendment was written to avoid what was going on in England at that time with the Church running the county. Let's not forget the basic laws that our country had early on about working on Sundays, mandatory church attendance... requirement of Christian profession to hold office etc... doesn't sound like the separation of church and state that I hear from your interpretation of Jefferson.

And how do you prevent the church (any church) from "running the country?" Easy. You strip them of any political power, exclude them from any government interaction and establish a religious-neutral tone in government that favors no religion (even the lack of religion - atheism).

The Founding Fathers very explicitly set up a secular state, a state with complete religious freedoms and a state free of any potential government religious coercion. That means that a Jew, Atheist, Christian or Hindu has equal rights before the law and has a right not to have any particular religion pushed on him by the government. Yet the science taught in school now days teaches science as religion, that evolution did in fact happen. Nobody was there to observe macro-evolution, nor do they have fossil samples showing the slow progression from fish to bird hence it remains a religion that the government is forcing on students.

That is the stupidest crap I've seen around here in quite some time. No one is teaching science as religion, that's your own retarded perspective interfering with reality again. Don't want your kids to learn science? Fine. Go home-school them or send them to ID-friendly church schools where they can grow up ignorant of science, but don't inflict your brand if idiocy on the rest of the kids in this country.

For fuck's sake, "nobody was there to observe evolution..." OMFG you're dumb.

It's much worse than forcing Christianity on students, at least that gives them a basis for morality.

You just spewed the second runner up for most retarded shit I think I've read in quite some time. One can have a basis for morality sans religion. What sort of arrogant shit thinks they have all the answers? You, that's who.

Pathetic.

wah.
grow up.

I think my next reply to your next post will also include lots of namecalling and angry swearing because my reply will be so empty of content and value that I won't have anything else to fill it up with. I will say things like "that is the most stupidest stuff I've seen around here in a long time" and "FFS OMFG U R STOOPID LOLlz" and similar things.

Well the part of your post stating the science was religion was real stupid. I bet you're from Kentucky or West Virginy

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Tab
Okay, but aren't we taught that we should keep our own personal beliefs out when we vote?

Who taught you that? Whoever it was is a fool because then you would essentially be voting for something you don't believe in, which defeats the entire purpose of voting.

 

[Red Dawn]

I dunno, people voting their religious beliefs ended up with us having The Dub as President, kind of hard to justify that.

I kid, I kid the Fundie Monkeys

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

For the love country stop misquoting our founding fathers. That's so cliche.

John Adams:
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798

The first amendment was written to avoid what was going on in England at that time with the Church running the county. Let's not forget the basic laws that our country had early on about working on Sundays, mandatory church attendance... requirement of Christian profession to hold office etc... doesn't sound like the separation of church and state that I hear from your interpretation of Jefferson.

The Founding Fathers very explicitly set up a secular state, a state with complete religious freedoms and a state free of any potential government religious coercion. That means that a Jew, Atheist, Christian or Hindu has equal rights before the law and has a right not to have any particular religion pushed on him by the government. Yet the science taught in school now days teaches science as religion, that evolution did in fact happen. Nobody was there to observe macro-evolution, nor do they have fossil samples showing the slow progression from fish to bird hence it remains a religion that the government is forcing on students.

It's much worse than forcing Christianity on students, at least that gives them a basis for morality.

Did you just call science a religion? The only thing more shocking then how ignorant that statement is, is the frequency in which I see people on these boards say it. You might want to go back to school on the whole evolution thing, because while I'm not interested in getting into yet another evolution thread, what you wrote on it shows that you don't seem to understand the basics of evolution, or even what constitutes a scientific theory.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: ultra laser
Maher's a secular Jew, right? I've noticed that a lot of Jews like to bash religion lately. I wouldn't buy into it.

Maher was raised in his Irish American father's Catholic religion, and did not find out that his mother was Jewish until his teenage years.

Easily Googleable, so why make a stupid supposition followed by an idiotic generalization?

Like you did with the Greek religion?

So you know, I'm seeing all your posts about the greeks, I'm just not going to engage in a debate as to the existence of the pantheon of greek gods any more than I'm going to engage in a debate over the actual existence of leprechauns. Feel free to keep posting about it though if you like.

My point exactly, you have no idea what religion really is so you constantly mistake the terms of debate.

Real religion is a bridge to reality that can be built out of any old wood you like so long as the road signs point to crossing. Religions are constructed by people who know the answers to what you call unanswerable questions because they have crossed. Your argument is that the wood in Greek bridges is old but the Greeks that crossed did so at the time their bridge was the latest rage.

All religion is based on the fact that people were born perfect and in the image of God and from whose Image we created him. It is based on the notion that we have fallen, that we have divided against our true self. At heart religion is a psychology of health and a methodology of healing. But when you give the sick a tool they turn it into a weapon. That is why all real religion takes place out of sight where a few are guided by a Knower. The finger pointing at the moon is not the moon but the hand pointing can be of a million different kinds.

There is something and that something is real. Good luck to you.

 

[HeXploiT]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Religulous (In HD) a Lions Gate documentary about religion. Bill Maher goes in search of answers (or lack there of) amongst the populous. Religion has hindered man for a a couple millennia and has driven the decisions of man in politics & daily life.

I am looking forward to seeing this. Bill Maher is one of my favorite comedians and has a level head. His political show 'Real Time with Bill Maher' is also excellent. Anyone else going to see this in theaters come October 3rd?

I'm looking forward to seeing this. My main disagreement with you however is that it's not even religion itself but man that causes the trouble. Saying religion is bad is like saying guns or knives are bad. Mankind will use anything and everything in its power to acquire goods/land/people... everything.
How many lives have knives and blades taken over the millennia? Tens of millions! Are knives bad? No...I think mankind is bad.
Religion is but text on a parchment and has no power or ability to think or act.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Perry404

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Religulous (In HD) a Lions Gate documentary about religion. Bill Maher goes in search of answers (or lack there of) amongst the populous. Religion has hindered man for a a couple millennia and has driven the decisions of man in politics & daily life.

I am looking forward to seeing this. Bill Maher is one of my favorite comedians and has a level head. His political show 'Real Time with Bill Maher' is also excellent. Anyone else going to see this in theaters come October 3rd?

I'm looking forward to seeing this. My main disagreement with you however is that it's not even religion itself but man that causes the trouble. Saying religion is bad is like saying guns or knives are bad. Mankind will use anything and everything in its power to acquire goods/land/people... everything.
How many lives have knives and blades taken over the millennia? Tens of millions! Are knives bad? No...I think mankind is bad.
Religion is but text on a parchment and has no power or ability to think or act.

You have so little faith in man yet you fight for liberty so hard. You're an enigma.

 

[SP33Demon]

Maher is always entertaining, I look forward to his mocking of religion even though I believe in God.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Tab
Okay, but aren't we taught that we should keep our own personal beliefs out when we vote?

Who taught you that? Whoever it was is a fool because then you would essentially be voting for something you don't believe in, which defeats the entire purpose of voting.

I don't have a problem with someone using faith as a part of their voting decision but IMO those who base their entire decision on faith based issues - like who will keep the gay from marrying - are stupid.

 

[HeXploiT]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Perry404

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Religulous (In HD) a Lions Gate documentary about religion. Bill Maher goes in search of answers (or lack there of) amongst the populous. Religion has hindered man for a a couple millennia and has driven the decisions of man in politics & daily life.

I am looking forward to seeing this. Bill Maher is one of my favorite comedians and has a level head. His political show 'Real Time with Bill Maher' is also excellent. Anyone else going to see this in theaters come October 3rd?

I'm looking forward to seeing this. My main disagreement with you however is that it's not even religion itself but man that causes the trouble. Saying religion is bad is like saying guns or knives are bad. Mankind will use anything and everything in its power to acquire goods/land/people... everything.
How many lives have knives and blades taken over the millennia? Tens of millions! Are knives bad? No...I think mankind is bad.
Religion is but text on a parchment and has no power or ability to think or act.

You have so little faith in man yet you fight for liberty so hard. You're an enigma.

You're not the first person to tell me that.
But shall I quit? If I don't believe in sitting still I must speak out for what I believe to be true even if in my heart I am convinced of mans failure.
I do have a hope however that hope resides not in man but in Jesus.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Tab
Okay, but aren't we taught that we should keep our own personal beliefs out when we vote?

Who taught you that? Whoever it was is a fool because then you would essentially be voting for something you don't believe in, which defeats the entire purpose of voting.

Wasn't that what the religious "right" did before Reagen?

Anyway, I thought we're suppose to keep our personal opinion to ourselves. I think that putting "rims" on older cars is stupid but I think it should be allowed. I don't think there's any logical reason why anyone should be commuting to work in their SUV or Sports Car. I have friend whom hates gay, gay sex, gay culture, etc but voted for legalization of gay marriage.

This is what I'm getting at.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

It's much worse than forcing Christianity on students, at least that gives them a basis for morality.

You do realize that there is no evidence that religion teaches anybody morality? In fact, an extensive study was done on morality in which a group of psychologists went around the world asking people similar questions about moral choices, ex: "If a train was out of control and approaching a split in which on one side there were five people and on another there was one, what would you do?" There were hundreds of questions like that and they tried to adjust them to fit the culture (ie - they substituted a train and a track for other similar choices if the people didn't know what a train was).

Anyway, they found out that regardless of whether people were Christian, Islamic, Zoroastrian, Jewish, Pagan, atheist, or whatever they all basically made the same moral judgments.

Belief had nothing to do with it. I'd say that natural selection, in fact, has a lot more to do with our moral beliefs than religion ever did.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

It's much worse than forcing Christianity on students, at least that gives them a basis for morality.

You do realize that there is no evidence that religion teaches anybody morality? In fact, an extensive study was done on morality in which a group of psychologists went around the world asking people similar questions about moral choices, ex: "If a train was out of control and approaching a split in which on one side there were five people and on another there was one, what would you do?" There were hundreds of questions like that and they tried to adjust them to fit the culture (ie - they substituted a train and a track for other similar choices if the people didn't know what a train was).

Anyway, they found out that regardless of whether people were Christian, Islamic, Zoroastrian, Jewish, Pagan, atheist, or whatever they all basically made the same moral judgments.

Belief had nothing to do with it. I'd say that natural selection, in fact, has a lot more to do with our moral beliefs than religion ever did.

Yup, we created and were created in the image of our highest aspirations chimps who can identify with the other.

 

[TheSlamma]

This is gonna be AWESOME!!!

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Religulous (In HD) a Lions Gate documentary about religion. Bill Maher goes in search of answers (or lack there of) amongst the populous. Religion has hindered man for a a couple millennia and has driven the decisions of man in politics & daily life.

I am looking forward to seeing this. Bill Maher is one of my favorite comedians and has a level head. His political show 'Real Time with Bill Maher' is also excellent. Anyone else going to see this in theaters come October 3rd?

After the fall of Rome religion is about the only thing that kept mankind together. It also was also a major source of literacy back then.

Not to mention the term Judeo-Christian law which, if I?m not mistaken, is the origin of the rights of people.

dude, lay down the crackpipe, most of europe didn't convert for several hundred years after the fall. Furthermore, humanity was doing fine in most of the rest of the world, and for the matter, the eastern Roman empire existed for another 800 years.

Furthermore, the basis of our legal system comes from english and roman common law.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Religulous (In HD) a Lions Gate documentary about religion. Bill Maher goes in search of answers (or lack there of) amongst the populous. Religion has hindered man for a a couple millennia and has driven the decisions of man in politics & daily life.

I am looking forward to seeing this. Bill Maher is one of my favorite comedians and has a level head. His political show 'Real Time with Bill Maher' is also excellent. Anyone else going to see this in theaters come October 3rd?

After the fall of Rome religion is about the only thing that kept mankind together. It also was also a major source of literacy back then.

Not to mention the term Judeo-Christian law which, if I?m not mistaken, is the origin of the rights of people.

dude, lay down the crackpipe, most of europe didn't convert for several hundred years after the fall. Furthermore, humanity was doing fine in most of the rest of the world, and for the matter, the eastern Roman empire existed for another 800 years.

Furthermore, the basis of our legal system comes from english and roman common law.

And the origin of the rights of the people comes a lot more from kings needing to make concessions for tax dollars in order to fight wars then it does with judeo-christian values.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
It is my duty as a citizen to vote as I see fit. What determines my worldview, whether it's Christianity, Islam, Judaism, atheism, or what have you, will always play a role in how I vote. The argument that religion should stay out of politics is ridiculous at its core because it is akin to asking people to remove a substantial portion of their worldview from consideration when voting. It's like telling someone not to vote based on social security issues even though they're 61.5 years of age (or whatever the age is now) and SS is about to become increasingly relevant for them. People will always vote for whatever is most important to them. The more vehemently to tell them not to, the more stalwart they will be in doing it.

Okay, but aren't we taught that we should keep our own personal beliefs out when we vote?

If it's Obama's personal belief that the US should offer universal health care, should he keep that to himself?

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Perry404

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Religulous (In HD) a Lions Gate documentary about religion. Bill Maher goes in search of answers (or lack there of) amongst the populous. Religion has hindered man for a a couple millennia and has driven the decisions of man in politics & daily life.

I am looking forward to seeing this. Bill Maher is one of my favorite comedians and has a level head. His political show 'Real Time with Bill Maher' is also excellent. Anyone else going to see this in theaters come October 3rd?

I'm looking forward to seeing this. My main disagreement with you however is that it's not even religion itself but man that causes the trouble. Saying religion is bad is like saying guns or knives are bad. Mankind will use anything and everything in its power to acquire goods/land/people... everything.
How many lives have knives and blades taken over the millennia? Tens of millions! Are knives bad? No...I think mankind is bad.
Religion is but text on a parchment and has no power or ability to think or act.

You have so little faith in man yet you fight for liberty so hard. You're an enigma.

Maybe the liberty for which he fights includes liberty from oppression by his fellow man, in whom he has so little faith?