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Religious children are meaner than their secular counterparts, study finds

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JEDIYoda said:
Are you saying there is no sin, that it`s all up to you to decide what is sin?? Just asking..
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And What is exactly is Sin? From reading religious stuff, I my take is that there no such as Sin, and the concept has nothing to do with Morality at all.
 
sandorski said:
What an odd choice to make. I'd choose friendlier children, because I want a better world.
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It's a subjective value-judgement I guess. Similar to how, if one lived in a country dominated by an unpleasant ideology, you can either raise your children to support that ideology, because they'd have a better chance of getting on, or raise them to oppose it, knowing that might lead to them doing badly or even being persecuted?

The fact that such dilemmas exist is one reason why I doubt there is a loving God.

That, and the sheer number of times Hitler escaped determined assassination attempts thanks to sheer luck.
 
Mai72 said:
I am Catholic myself. Haven't been to a church service in years. When I lived in Thailand, I went to the Buddhist monk temples with my gf. She's Thai, so she was allowed in. I had to sit outside because I was a foreigner. So anyway, I'm currently practicing Buddhism. To me, it all makes sense. I can use what I'm learning and apply those principles into my life. You could do the same with other religions, but it just doesn't do the same for me.

For example, Buddhism teaches you about detachment. How being attached to this life leads to suffering. How true is that. Things like Karma. The eight fold path. The 4 noble truths. What did I learn about life as a Catholic. Not much. Oh yea, I learned that I'm doomed for a fiery hell if I don't repent. Seems like their #1 thing is to scare you into becoming a follower. Which is exactly what they did back thousands of years ago. They would scare the populace into believing their way. If not, then you're DOOMED. Priest back then had a lot of power. Thankfully, science made religion irrelevant.
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I was raised as Southern Baptist (not fundie) in southern Louisiana but stopped going to church when I was 13. I guess I was enlightened. I consider myself as agnostic. I need to check out Buddhism. What’s a good book to read?
 
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You are served a pack of lies and expected to digest it and not recoil, of course it's going to make you mean. I think secularism is more honest.
 
Lanyap said:
I was raised as Southern Baptist (not fundie) in southern Louisiana but stopped going to church when I was 13. I guess I was enlightened. I consider myself as agnostic. I need to check out Buddhism. What’s a good book to read?
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I like Zen Flesh Zen Bones. Easy but lots of deep thoughts, pithy, sticks to your bones!

Buddhism has the characteristics of what would be expected in a cosmic religion for the future: It transcends a personal God, avoids dogmas and theology; it covers both the natural and the spiritual, and it is based on a religious sense aspiring from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity. - Albert Einstein
 
Atreus21 said:
Well, as pmv pointed out, we should be careful about equating correlation with causation when it conforms to our biases. Secondly, even if correlation does mean causation, it seems that religion has benefits in some circumstances (lower suicide risk) and ill effects in others (meaner children). If you had to choose between meaner children with lower risk of suicide, or friendlier children with higher risk of suicide, which would you pick?
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Have you or your sources accounted for the behavior of theists towards atheists and other religious minorities?

Anecdotally I know personally and from other friends and family members that as children we were ostracized by the majority Christians. Friends who would no longer play with us once their parents found out we didn’t go to church or the right church. Former friends telling us we’re going to hell or the occasional late night threatening phone call.

Being ostracized in this way can increase suicide rates in children, no?
 
Paratus said:
Have you or your sources accounted for the behavior of theists towards atheists and other religious minorities?

Anecdotally I know personally and from other friends and family members that as children we were ostracized by the majority Christians. Friends who would no longer play with us once their parents found out we didn’t go to church or the right church. Former friends telling us we’re going to hell or the occasional late night threatening phone call.

Being ostracized in this way can increase suicide rates in children, no?
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Yeah I never quite understood why some people have such hatred toward those who don't hold the same beliefs as they do.
 
Paratus said:
Have you or your sources accounted for the behavior of theists towards atheists and other religious minorities?

Anecdotally I know personally and from other friends and family members that as children we were ostracized by the majority Christians. Friends who would no longer play with us once their parents found out we didn’t go to church or the right church. Former friends telling us we’re going to hell or the occasional late night threatening phone call.

Being ostracized in this way can increase suicide rates in children, no?
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Well that's the point, it seems to me. What you say isn't inconsistent with what Atreus21 says - both can be true at the same time. Being religious is selfish - it helps the believer, but may have negative effects on others.

But then everyone is selfish, it's human nature. And religion is in no sense the only manifestation of human moral imperfection.

Religion exists because humans are imperfect. Somehow we have to live with that. This world is imperfect (frankly it seems like a bit of a highly sophisticated system of torture at times). In fact, come to think of it, the existence, and necessity of, religion is a strong argument against the existence of a loving God.
 
If there were a loving, compassionate God, we wouldn't need religion. Religion only exists because God doesn't (or he does, but he's a sick and capricious monster).
 
whm1974 said:
Yeah I never quite understood why some people have such hatred toward those who don't hold the same beliefs as they do.
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It's the simple minded mob mentality that I hear so much about, passed down thru generations via fear mongering, catering to our most primal instincts dedicated to self preservation. Its why it's so effective and the majority of people have trouble shaking it. I was raised a fundie, been out of it from more than 20 years, but I can still feel the thought patterns present themselves at times.
 
pmv said:
If there were a loving, compassionate God, we wouldn't need religion. Religion only exists because God doesn't (or he does, but he's a sick and capricious monster).
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Religion in NOT a creation of God. Religion is by and for people. Man is inherently flawed, that is our condition. The practice of religion can be a supportive, strengthening and, healing thing. It can also be a isolationist, polarizing and, hateful thing. God IS a loving and compassionate God, some followers choose not to be.
 
MagnusTheBrewer said:
Religion in NOT a creation of God. Religion is by and for people. Man is inherently flawed, that is our condition. The practice of religion can be a supportive, strengthening and, healing thing. It can also be a isolationist, polarizing and, hateful thing. God IS a loving and compassionate God, some followers choose not to be.
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I guess that depends on which version of God you choose to support
 
MagnusTheBrewer said:
Religion in NOT a creation of God. Religion is by and for people. Man is inherently flawed, that is our condition. The practice of religion can be a supportive, strengthening and, healing thing. It can also be a isolationist, polarizing and, hateful thing. God IS a loving and compassionate God, some followers choose not to be.
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I'd give this a 'maybe' vote, if that were an option rather than 'indifferent' (which sounds rather negative).

It's not just 'man' that is inherently flawed, though, the whole set-up of life and the world around us seems to be designed to cause suffering. If there is a God he's put us into an impossible situation where we are predestined to fail. I honestly don't believe a benevolent God would have created a world like this. I'd prefer to believe there is no God than that he's a sicko.
 
MagnusTheBrewer said:
Indeed, it speaks volumes about some followers but, nothing about the validity of God.
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The debate stops before God's validity. People can create whatever belief system they want. Cultures matured far away from both Christianity and Islam (or even before those), had a far different concept of God(s). Nobody has proven a God, or God's exist. When asking non-believers to provide proof to disprove a believers belief, that's what we call proving a negative. It's an absurd concept.
 
ch33zw1z said:
The debate stops before God's validity. People can create whatever belief system they want. Cultures matured far away from both Christianity and Islam (or even before those), had a far different concept of God(s). Nobody has proven a God, or God's exist. When asking non-believers to provide proof to disprove a believers belief, that's what we call proving a negative. It's an absurd concept.
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Validity and existence are two separate concepts.
 
MagnusTheBrewer said:
Validity and existence are two separate concepts.
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Only when you want them to be, but when it comes to proving out the existence of a higher being, they are the same.

edit: I mean, you understand that validity of ones beliefs is separate from validity of existence, correct? This is what you're referring to.
 
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If parents taught their children according to the actual Bible teachings they'd respect everyone they encounter because the word says to think of everyone else as greater than yourself.

PS: My kids respect everyone!
 
I wwonder if they would get different results doing a similar study specifically with Sikh children or Quaker children
 
Atreus21 said:
Well, as pmv pointed out, we should be careful about equating correlation with causation when it conforms to our biases. Secondly, even if correlation does mean causation, it seems that religion has benefits in some circumstances (lower suicide risk) and ill effects in others (meaner children). If you had to choose between meaner children with lower risk of suicide, or friendlier children with higher risk of suicide, which would you pick?
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Maybe if there were less mean children we'd naturally have less suicides.
 
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