Religious centers need to pay taxes

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: shrumpage

Originally posted by: 1prophet
Did Jesus not pay taxes?

Mark 12

14And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?

15Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.

16And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's.

17And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.


And for those that believe taxes will overcome the church, is your faith so shallow?

Matthew 17

24And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee

Do Christians pay income tax today?

Yes they do. The first scripture is citing a person following the law. Currently chruches are tax exempt and following the law.

Where the synagogues tax exempt during the time of the scripture?

 

[shrumpage]

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: shrumpage

Originally posted by: 1prophet
Did Jesus not pay taxes?

Mark 12

14And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?

15Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.

16And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's.

17And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.


And for those that believe taxes will overcome the church, is your faith so shallow?

Matthew 17

24And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee

Do Christians pay income tax today?

Yes they do. The first scripture is citing a person following the law. Currently chruches are tax exempt and following the law.

Where the synagogues tax exempt during the time of the scripture?

Prior to the conqouring of Isreal they did not pay taxes, and the government actually supported the religon. I don't know how the Roman worlds levied taxes, so I don't know, but my guess is they obeyed the law.

Both scriptures you listed are referring to an individual - not a church or religous body.

 

[shrumpage]

Originally posted by: soundforbjt
Do any of you here defending that churches should'nt be taxed realize that at one time the Catholic Church owned Yankee Stadium?

WTF does owning a baseball stadium have to do with religion?

It was just used as a revenue to pay for lavish non-necessary items.

Does a church need huge sound systems, recording studios, or video production systems costing hundreds of thousands of dollars to preach the Word of God?

It's a business and a big one at that!

note: this does not apply to all churches, but even alot of small churches do this to some degree.

I've searched, and i can't find any reference to the Catholic Church having any affilition with the yankee stadium. They held a mass there with the Pope in 1965, and another one in 1979 - but thats it. Can you post a link or reference?

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: shrumpage

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: shrumpage

Originally posted by: 1prophet
Did Jesus not pay taxes?

Mark 12

14And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?

15Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.

16And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's.

17And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.


And for those that believe taxes will overcome the church, is your faith so shallow?

Matthew 17

24And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee

Do Christians pay income tax today?

Yes they do. The first scripture is citing a person following the law. Currently chruches are tax exempt and following the law.

Where the synagogues tax exempt during the time of the scripture?

Prior to the conqouring of Isreal they did not pay taxes, and the government actually supported the religon. I don't know how the Roman worlds levied taxes, so I don't know, but my guess is they obeyed the law.

Both scriptures you listed are referring to an individual - not a church or religous body.

Is the church not composed of its individual members?

Should people who have nothing to do with that church or religious body have their property taxes raised to offset those who use their religion under the property tax law to not pay those taxes while still using those same services.

Their are many municipalities struggling with this today since the property tax is their main source of income and I believe that churches and other religious organizations are going to come under very heavy scrutiny soon.

 

[shrumpage]

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: shrumpage

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: shrumpage

Originally posted by: 1prophet
Did Jesus not pay taxes?

Mark 12

14And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?

15Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.

16And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's.

17And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.


And for those that believe taxes will overcome the church, is your faith so shallow?

Matthew 17

24And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee

Do Christians pay income tax today?

Yes they do. The first scripture is citing a person following the law. Currently chruches are tax exempt and following the law.

Where the synagogues tax exempt during the time of the scripture?

Prior to the conqouring of Isreal they did not pay taxes, and the government actually supported the religon. I don't know how the Roman worlds levied taxes, so I don't know, but my guess is they obeyed the law.

Both scriptures you listed are referring to an individual - not a church or religous body.

Is the church not composed of its individual members?

Should people who have nothing to do with that church or religious body have their property taxes raised to offset those who use their religion under the property tax law to not pay those taxes while still using those same services.

Their are many municipalities struggling with this today since the property tax is their main source of income and I believe that churches and other religious organizations are going to come under very heavy scrutiny soon.

The scripture cited still doesn't cover what you are claiming.

Should a State university pay local county property taxes?

What about the services that those groups provide to the community? Where i live the only place that takes care of homeless is a religous group. The provide meals, and cots for people who don't have otherwise. They also help people get off drugs and alchol and get jobs.

Geting people off the streets - not freezing to death, off of drugs, trying to get them cleaned up and working - saves the city/borough a lot of money. If anything they are keeping people out of jail. Taking those burrden off the taxpayers seems like a small trade off in property taxes (which would be roughly $2000-$3000).

edited: to add more.

 

[piasabird]

The NAACP uses just as many resources if not more.

 

[piasabird]

You could say the same thing about parks and public schools. Are you going to recommend all public schools be done away with too.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: DVK916

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: DVK916
These place use government resources yet they pay no taxes. Something needs to be done about this. Those churches that burned down use valuable police and firefighting resources yet pay nothing to the local community in taxes. A church is like a business too with a product, and its product is religion. It is selling something to its congregates who payment is in donations.

You really do have nothing better to do with your time than to come up with useless ideas of why religion should go away, do you? How do you sell religion? It's not like it's some product that people walk out of church with, and people that attend services are not "required" to give the church money. Furthermore, churches may not be used as a get-rich business and remain tax-exempt. Nor may they participate at all in the campaign activity for candidates.

Churches are tax-exempt only when they provide something to the community in exchange for the community support they receive, such as from the fire department and police station.

The real purpose behind this thread has nothing to do with taxes, does it? This is just another one of your lame attempts to try and discredit religion and make it out to be the great evil of the world. Well, as long as there are people like you who act like this, religion will never have to worry about being the "great evil".

You can sell religion, just like you sell false hope, and lies to people. Religion is probably one of the most dangerous things being sold today.

Also many churches require its members to give donation, and the bible requires it as well.

So should I start asking for a receipt when I attend church? Give me a break.

 

[DVK916]

Churches tend make a lot of money in donation, why not have them give some of that to goverment in terms of taxes. What makes a church so special, and if taxing them means less churches that is even better. People pay money when they go to church, so the church is selling a service and should be taxed like any business selling a service.

 

[DVK916]

Originally posted by: shrumpage

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: shrumpage

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: shrumpage

Originally posted by: 1prophet
Did Jesus not pay taxes?

Mark 12

14And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?

15Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.

16And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's.

17And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.


And for those that believe taxes will overcome the church, is your faith so shallow?

Matthew 17

24And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee

Do Christians pay income tax today?

Yes they do. The first scripture is citing a person following the law. Currently chruches are tax exempt and following the law.

Where the synagogues tax exempt during the time of the scripture?

Prior to the conqouring of Isreal they did not pay taxes, and the government actually supported the religon. I don't know how the Roman worlds levied taxes, so I don't know, but my guess is they obeyed the law.

Both scriptures you listed are referring to an individual - not a church or religous body.

Is the church not composed of its individual members?

Should people who have nothing to do with that church or religious body have their property taxes raised to offset those who use their religion under the property tax law to not pay those taxes while still using those same services.

Their are many municipalities struggling with this today since the property tax is their main source of income and I believe that churches and other religious organizations are going to come under very heavy scrutiny soon.

The scripture cited still doesn't cover what you are claiming.

Should a State university pay local county property taxes?

What about the services that those groups provide to the community? Where i live the only place that takes care of homeless is a religous group. The provide meals, and cots for people who don't have otherwise. They also help people get off drugs and alchol and get jobs.

Geting people off the streets - not freezing to death, off of drugs, trying to get them cleaned up and working - saves the city/borough a lot of money. If anything they are keeping people out of jail. Taking those burrden off the taxpayers seems like a small trade off in property taxes (which would be roughly $2000-$3000).

edited: to add more.

Churches tend to force conversion on those who they claim to help. That isn't charity but something darker.

 

[themusgrat]

Originally posted by: DVK916

You can sell religion, just like you sell false hope, and lies to people. Religion is probably one of the most dangerous things being sold today.

Also many churches require its members to give donation, and the bible requires it as well.

You are the one who wants to let theists die.

No churches that I know of require donations. The Bible does require a tithe, but that is paying the preacher, staff, and church property note. No one since the middle ages has sold religion.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: shrumpage

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: shrumpage

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: shrumpage

Originally posted by: 1prophet
Did Jesus not pay taxes?

Mark 12

14And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?

15Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.

16And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's.

17And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.


And for those that believe taxes will overcome the church, is your faith so shallow?

Matthew 17

24And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee

Do Christians pay income tax today?

Yes they do. The first scripture is citing a person following the law. Currently chruches are tax exempt and following the law.

Where the synagogues tax exempt during the time of the scripture?

Prior to the conqouring of Isreal they did not pay taxes, and the government actually supported the religon. I don't know how the Roman worlds levied taxes, so I don't know, but my guess is they obeyed the law.

Both scriptures you listed are referring to an individual - not a church or religous body.

Is the church not composed of its individual members?

Should people who have nothing to do with that church or religious body have their property taxes raised to offset those who use their religion under the property tax law to not pay those taxes while still using those same services.

Their are many municipalities struggling with this today since the property tax is their main source of income and I believe that churches and other religious organizations are going to come under very heavy scrutiny soon.

The scripture cited still doesn't cover what you are claiming.

Should a State university pay local county property taxes?

What about the services that those groups provide to the community? Where i live the only place that takes care of homeless is a religous group. The provide meals, and cots for people who don't have otherwise. They also help people get off drugs and alchol and get jobs.

Geting people off the streets - not freezing to death, off of drugs, trying to get them cleaned up and working - saves the city/borough a lot of money. If anything they are keeping people out of jail. Taking those burrden off the taxpayers seems like a small trade off in property taxes (which would be roughly $2000-$3000).

edited: to add more.

I am glad you brought that up, when you mix government with religion the government can now come impose its own agenda since it is subsidising the religious establishment, and by doing so can indirectly threaten to withhold tax exempt status if a preacher with unpopular views is preaching something like the opposition to alternative lifestyles while the government legalizes it.

Then a choice will have to be made does the religious organization give up the tax exempt status or do the members compromise their beliefs and give in to the state.

To sum up up what I am trying to get across here is this, if you want tax exemptions then this is an example here Amish
who are self sufficient. (there is another issue about child labor in the link but that should be for a seperate topic)

But when I see the head of the churches with their Cadillacs, Mercedes, and other fine material things while their members are told to give and give while they hide behind their tax exempt status especially since they are supposed to be leading by example somethings got to give.

And that is what one of the reasons for members like DVK916 to go against religion even though you and I may see the positive side of it.🙂

 

[themusgrat]

Churches do not force conversion upon those to whom they aid. If they share the gospel to those people, the people have the choice of saying yes or no. The government does require things out of other nations that they help, including my USA. But religious people simply want you to listen to them in exchange for, say, saving your life, donating to your cause, basically giving their time and money freely. Oh, maybe in some distant, far-off land, religious nuts say, "believe in God or die!!!" Grow up. I'm still not sure why you hate me, and all theists, DVK916.

 

[imported_Goo]

there are at least 10 churches within 20km of we I live and I am alway amaze that they're alway expanding. To me it looks like they're doing very good, I have no idea how much $ their members donate but I wouldn't be supprise the amount is huge..

I personally think they should pay tax since they're providing services to their member, the only diff is they have no price list. But if the law think they shouldn't have tto it don't bug me a bit.

 

[shrumpage]

Originally posted by: 1prophet

I am glad you brought that up, when you mix government with religion the government can now come impose its own agenda since it is subsidising the religious establishment, and by doing so can indirectly threaten to withhold tax exempt status if a preacher with unpopular views is preaching something like the opposition to alternative lifestyles while the government legalizes it.

Then a choice will have to be made does the religious organization give up the tax exempt status or do the members compromise their beliefs and give in to the state.

To sum up up what I am trying to get across here is this, if you want tax exemptions then this is an example here Amish
who are self sufficient. (there is another issue about child labor in the link but that should be for a seperate topic)

But when I see the head of the churches with their Cadillacs, Mercedes, and other fine material things while their members are told to give and give while they hide behind their tax exempt status especially since they are supposed to be leading by example somethings got to give.

And that is what one of the reasons for members like DVK916 to go against religion even though you and I may see the positive side of it.🙂

You keep changing arugements so much it is hard to keep track - you still haven't address some simple points i've raised:

According to you theory of how things work - if somethign takes advantage of government like roads or police they should pay for it. Do you belive that State University should pay local government for the services they use?

Should private non-profit schools be taxed under the same reasoning?

Your whole argument implies that Chruch only take from the community - i just gave a very specfic example on how a religous org - saves the local government much more money then they would ever collect in taxes - can you address that issue.

And finally - you can't seem to seperate people from church. People who are paid by a church, pay taxes on it, just like everyone else. If they save their money and buy a fancy car, i honestly don't care. But since we are talking ancedotal, all of the pastors i know of, work part time at something else - or have a retirement they are drawing off of. They don't make much.

I'm just curious- there was an issue a few years ago where a student earned a scholarship from the State of Washington. He choose to go to an accredited college, but decided that he would study theology. Even though there was nothing listed about what he could study, the State pulled his schololarship, would you agree or disagree with what the Washington Government did?

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: DVK916
I hate the evil that religion has caused. The evil that god believers cause.

Religion can not cause evilness, only man can be evil.

You are trying to find peace in the world without first finding peace within yourself. You're following the paths of folks like Bush and OBL. They too have become what they hate. It is unavoidable. You hate religion because you see it as evil, and have become just so. Hate is a disease, and you are ill.

I understand trying to negotiate is a good strategy, but you're playing into his hands by putting Bush and Osama in the same sentence. I understand some people don't like Bush, but do not compare him to Osama. Plus, why do you think Bush is as religious as Osama is? I don't think he is literal.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: DVK916
Churches tend make a lot of money in donation, why not have them give some of that to goverment in terms of taxes. What makes a church so special, and if taxing them means less churches that is even better. People pay money when they go to church, so the church is selling a service and should be taxed like any business selling a service.

Thanks for helping out us religious folks. You're doing more good for our cause by just posting what you're posting. Keep up, my Californian friend.

People pay money because they choose to, a church does not force people to go there and give up their money. Why should those private donations be given to your favorite federal government? I understand that big government and social programs are in fashion these days, but just be honest. Also, that money is being used to run the church efficiently. If it didn't look right or looked run down, people like you would mock it for looking like that. So a church faces a no win situation either way, when it comes to people like you. But yes, all religious people are evil, you win this debate.

Also, tell us why California is the best state? I think you haven't said that enough. Give us more reasons.

 

[DVK916]

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: DVK916
Churches tend make a lot of money in donation, why not have them give some of that to goverment in terms of taxes. What makes a church so special, and if taxing them means less churches that is even better. People pay money when they go to church, so the church is selling a service and should be taxed like any business selling a service.

Thanks for helping out us religious folks. You're doing more good for our cause by just posting what you're posting. Keep up, my Californian friend.

People pay money because they choose to, a church does not force people to go there and give up their money. Why should those private donations be given to your favorite federal government? I understand that big government and social programs are in fashion these days, but just be honest. Also, that money is being used to run the church efficiently. If it didn't look right or looked run down, people like you would mock it for looking like that. So a church faces a no win situation either way, when it comes to people like you. But yes, all religious people are evil, you win this debate.

Also, tell us why California is the best state? I think you haven't said that enough. Give us more reasons.

There is a way for you to win, stop believing in such nonsense. Admit that there is no god.

Also California> * State, we have the best of everything.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: DVK916

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: DVK916
Churches tend make a lot of money in donation, why not have them give some of that to goverment in terms of taxes. What makes a church so special, and if taxing them means less churches that is even better. People pay money when they go to church, so the church is selling a service and should be taxed like any business selling a service.

Thanks for helping out us religious folks. You're doing more good for our cause by just posting what you're posting. Keep up, my Californian friend.

People pay money because they choose to, a church does not force people to go there and give up their money. Why should those private donations be given to your favorite federal government? I understand that big government and social programs are in fashion these days, but just be honest. Also, that money is being used to run the church efficiently. If it didn't look right or looked run down, people like you would mock it for looking like that. So a church faces a no win situation either way, when it comes to people like you. But yes, all religious people are evil, you win this debate.

Also, tell us why California is the best state? I think you haven't said that enough. Give us more reasons.

There is a way for you to win, stop believing in such nonsense. Admit that there is no god.

Also California> * State, we have the best of everything.

Yup, you win again. Go you.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: DVK916


I am a full time student at UC Davis. No job, just school.

Now tell me, who is NOT surprised by this 😀

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: DVK916
Churches tend make a lot of money in donation, why not have them give some of that to goverment in terms of taxes. What makes a church so special, and if taxing them means less churches that is even better. People pay money when they go to church, so the church is selling a service and should be taxed like any business selling a service.

Not everyone pays to go to church, and I don't know of many churches that require their members to make a donation in order to attend. Hence the word "donation." It's a gift. Do my kids need to start being taxed for the gifts I give them during Christmas or birthdays?

If your signature is correct, that religion is a disease and you are the cure, I think I'd rather be sick.

 

[lyssword]

watch this DVK genius post another religion-hating thread in one way or the other, tomorrow. 😛 😛