Religion

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: DVK916

Originally posted by: piasabird
Well you can b a zealot for or against religion.

As for me I have seen all the proof I need to know that what I believe is true. Call me a Religious fanatic if you want to. Perhaps you have chosen not to accept the possibility that God exists and cannot feel his presence because you choose not to.
On the subject of religion, I suggest that religion is both a belief system and a set of acceptable social behavior for people living in a society. People of one faith or another can be described to live in a subset or a smaller Social Society and we all come together (SOMETIMES) to become the society of the country or the word we live in.

To me Religion does not restrict me, but it sets me free. Society in America (USA) often tries to tell you what you can think, what is normal and what is acceptable. I think many people have forsaken common sense and follow hollywood and anyone else because that gives them an excuse for their unacceptable behavior. When men call evil good and good evil, then they are just trying to find an excuse for their bad behavior.

If a man is addicted to alcohol or drugs or pornography, can you say he is truly free?

You are free to choose to become part of a religion or to believe in whatever you wish. However, I suggest you try as an experiment to read the Bible from one end to the other and have an open mind about it. There are lots of miracles in the Bible. If any of them are true then that means hundreds of people from time to time have witnessed these miracles. When the miracles occurred it is normally because men or women chose to have faith in God. It is only after a walk of faith that a miracle occurs.

I suggest that you have an open mind. Take a chance and experiment upon the words of the Bible and put the promises it has to the test and see if God does exist. If you have a closed mind, then perhaps you have chosen not to believe in God. Why would God help anyone who chooses not to even accept the possiblity that he might exist? I believe in the Bible. I believe in God because he created the earth. I love him because he loved me first.

You can't be a zealot atheist. Speaking the truth doesn't make you a zealot.

If you try to force your beliefs on another you are a zealot.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Harvey
God created man in his own image, and man, being a gentleman, returned the compliment.

- Mark Twain

So true. As Meister Eckhart said, ?The eye with which I see God is the same eye with which God sees me?

So if for you there is no God, it doesn't speak very highly of your self. But then again, what self is that?

As he also said. "To be empty of things is to be full of God.?

Isn't the self that is empty of things the self that retains only what the self can never loose? What is the self that has died to all that it is not? The intoxication of wine is known only to those who taste. Bottoms up, friend!

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: themusgrat
EDIT: People are turned off because of all the hypocrisy. That is our fault. But you cannot accurately judge God by His creation, no?

So, why has your god (any god for that matter) created and destoryed so MANY species? For example, the equine.

 

[themusgrat]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Harvey
God created man in his own image, and man, being a gentleman, returned the compliment.

- Mark Twain

So true. As Meister Eckhart said, ?The eye with which I see God is the same eye with which God sees me?

So if for you there is no God, it doesn't speak very highly of your self. But then again, what self is that?

As he also said. "To be empty of things is to be full of God.?

Isn't the self that is empty of things the self that retains only what the self can never loose? What is the self that has died to all that it is not? The intoxication of wine is known only to those who taste. Bottoms up, friend!

To be empty is to be empty of selfish desires. No one is completely empty. Once, we were empty, until Adam and Eve tasted the apple. Because of that, we know death.

 

[themusgrat]

Originally posted by: homercles337

Originally posted by: themusgrat
EDIT: People are turned off because of all the hypocrisy. That is our fault. But you cannot accurately judge God by His creation, no?

So, why has your god (any god for that matter) created and destoryed so MANY species? For example, the equine.

Because we sinned, we had to face death. In a Christian's world view, the world is basically whatever we make of it. Oh, I don't believe in evolution. So if man screws up, whatever is in his dominion (the natural world), suffers the consequences of it.

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: themusgrat

Originally posted by: homercles337

Originally posted by: themusgrat
EDIT: People are turned off because of all the hypocrisy. That is our fault. But you cannot accurately judge God by His creation, no?

So, why has your god (any god for that matter) created and destoryed so MANY species? For example, the equine.

Because we sinned, we had to face death. In a Christian's world view, the world is basically whatever we make of it. Oh, I don't believe in evolution. So if man screws up, whatever is in his dominion (the natural world), suffers the consequences of it.

Cease the religious speak. Just answer my question. There is undisputable evidence that there have been a large number of VERY different horses. Why would a god do this? Since you know him.

 

[imported_Goo]

I am not, and really don't care. I don't see any reason why God(s) creating human in the first place and obviously this world is far from perfect.

Agent Smith(Matrix) said it best(don't remember the wording but you get the idea)
"There are no other animal like human, human broke the eco balance....Human is virus to the plantnet...."

 

[themusgrat]

Originally posted by: homercles337

Cease the religious speak. Just answer my question. There is undisputable evidence that there have been a large number of VERY different horses. Why would a god do this? Since you know him.

Ok, not sure how to cease religious speak while discussing the mind of God. God can do anything He wants. Horses do not have souls. But that does not matter at all. Everyhing dies at one point, so if the species ceases to exist, wha is the big deal? Sure, we need to do everything we can to prevent it, but the world is coming toward entropy, so it is to be expected.

 

[CitizenKain]

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fntagn.

I'm more worried about the Elder Gods myself.

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: themusgrat

Originally posted by: homercles337

Cease the religious speak. Just answer my question. There is undisputable evidence that there have been a large number of VERY different horses. Why would a god do this? Since you know him.

Ok, not sure how to cease religious speak while discussing the mind of God. God can do anything He wants. Horses do not have souls. But that does not matter at all. Everyhing dies at one point, so if the species ceases to exist, wha is the big deal? Sure, we need to do everything we can to prevent it, but the world is coming toward entropy, so it is to be expected.

So you think that your god just creates and destroys numerous species on a whim? Interesting.

Can you define entropy--IN YOUR OWN WORDS. I suspect you know nothing about entropy--the second law of therodynamics is oft quoted by the relignorant.

 

[MSUEngineer]

Why does it seem athiests are the people who are most interested in God? It's seems to me an athiest would care less if people believe in a god or not. I mean, we all end up in the ground as worm food.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Originally posted by: MSUEngineer
Why does it seem athiests are the people who are most interested in God? It's seems to me an athiest would care less if people believe in a god or not. I mean, we all end up in the ground as worm food.

Though I'm not am athiest (agnostic) I can offer my reason. Having grown up in an area where there is constant pressure to join the 'one true church', you have to be educated to a point. I don't believe in God or Jesus as the son of God, but having some basic knowledge of their beliefs helps when cornered by zelous members, and yes it still happens quite often. Having married into a family that was still mostly active Mormon I was constantly put on the defensive by pushy in laws at family gatherings. My family history is rooted in the LDS church, though my immediate family has never been active, and my grandpatents haven't been active for many years. Also half of my friends are returned missionaries, though they have known me long enough to not bring up the subject, though their wives have tried on occasion 🙂

 

[DVK916]

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: DVK916

Originally posted by: piasabird
Well you can b a zealot for or against religion.

As for me I have seen all the proof I need to know that what I believe is true. Call me a Religious fanatic if you want to. Perhaps you have chosen not to accept the possibility that God exists and cannot feel his presence because you choose not to.
On the subject of religion, I suggest that religion is both a belief system and a set of acceptable social behavior for people living in a society. People of one faith or another can be described to live in a subset or a smaller Social Society and we all come together (SOMETIMES) to become the society of the country or the word we live in.

To me Religion does not restrict me, but it sets me free. Society in America (USA) often tries to tell you what you can think, what is normal and what is acceptable. I think many people have forsaken common sense and follow hollywood and anyone else because that gives them an excuse for their unacceptable behavior. When men call evil good and good evil, then they are just trying to find an excuse for their bad behavior.

If a man is addicted to alcohol or drugs or pornography, can you say he is truly free?

You are free to choose to become part of a religion or to believe in whatever you wish. However, I suggest you try as an experiment to read the Bible from one end to the other and have an open mind about it. There are lots of miracles in the Bible. If any of them are true then that means hundreds of people from time to time have witnessed these miracles. When the miracles occurred it is normally because men or women chose to have faith in God. It is only after a walk of faith that a miracle occurs.

I suggest that you have an open mind. Take a chance and experiment upon the words of the Bible and put the promises it has to the test and see if God does exist. If you have a closed mind, then perhaps you have chosen not to believe in God. Why would God help anyone who chooses not to even accept the possiblity that he might exist? I believe in the Bible. I believe in God because he created the earth. I love him because he loved me first.

You can't be a zealot atheist. Speaking the truth doesn't make you a zealot.

If you try to force your beliefs on another you are a zealot.

As an atheist I don't force my beliefs on others. I only educate others on how stupid their sky fairy worship is.

 

[MSUEngineer]

Then tell them that they are not following what they believe. Jesus stated that if a person does not accept the gospel, the person witnessing should "knock the dust off their sandals" as a sign and move on (in other words, leave them alone).

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
I am religious. God is love and I have experienced love, so I know that He exists. The rest is details.

You've worded your response as a syllogism. But your conclusion doesn't follow logically. To see this, consider:

The sky is blue.
I see blue.
So I see the sky.

Therefore, some clarification is needed: What do you mean by, "God is love?"

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: RichardE
If you are not religious, why?

If you are, why?

Lets try to keep this to answers just to this OP and not comment on each others post.

Yes, I am religious. The reason may sound somewhat selfish, but it is mainly due to the fact that it provides me with a belief that I can be with my family forever, that life continues even after the death of our bodies. It provides me with hope, love, and a desire to be a better person.

Plus, even if I'm wrong, I'll never know about it. If I'm write, I've appropriately prepared myself.

 

[DVK916]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
I am religious. God is love and I have experienced love, so I know that He exists. The rest is details.

You've worded your response as a syllogism. But your conclusion doesn't follow logically. To see this, consider:

The sky is blue.
I see blue.
So I see the sky.

Therefore, some clarification is needed: What do you mean by, "God is love?"

He has some delusional idea that some sky fairy is where "love" comes from, since he feels this "love" his sky fairy must be real. Really delusional.

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
I am religious. God is love and I have experienced love, so I know that He exists. The rest is details.

You've worded your response as a syllogism. But your conclusion doesn't follow logically. To see this, consider:

The sky is blue.
I see blue.
So I see the sky.

Therefore, some clarification is needed: What do you mean by, "God is love?"

Asking someone to logically prove the existence of their God is a mistake.

Even if the existence of God is proved, all proofs do not include all the religious attributes and characteristics of God.

There is also no logical proof that God doesn't exist, since God can be defined in any number of ways to escape any logic.

 

[Moonbeam]

The sky is blue.
I see blue.
So I see the sky.
The sky sees me
I am blue
So the sky is me.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
I am religious. God is love and I have experienced love, so I know that He exists. The rest is details.

You've worded your response as a syllogism. But your conclusion doesn't follow logically. To see this, consider:

The sky is blue.
I see blue.
So I see the sky.

Therefore, some clarification is needed: What do you mean by, "God is love?"

Asking someone to logically prove the existence of their God is a mistake.

Even if the existence of God is proved, all proofs do not include all the religious attributes and characteristics of God.

There is also no logical proof that God doesn't exist, since God can be defined in any number of ways to escape any logic.

That may be so, but would be it rational to beileve in those god(s)?

Yes, there is no absolute proof of the non-exsistance or even exsistance of something. However, with the use of logic I am sure we can get pretty damn close. What we're looking for is what is rational for us to beileve?

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
I am religious. God is love and I have experienced love, so I know that He exists. The rest is details.

You've worded your response as a syllogism. But your conclusion doesn't follow logically. To see this, consider:

The sky is blue.
I see blue.
So I see the sky.

Therefore, some clarification is needed: What do you mean by, "God is love?"

Asking someone to logically prove the existence of their God is a mistake.

Even if the existence of God is proved, all proofs do not include all the religious attributes and characteristics of God.

There is also no logical proof that God doesn't exist, since God can be defined in any number of ways to escape any logic.

That may be so, but would be it rational to beileve in those god(s)?

Since we cannot rationally prove or disprove, the question is moot.

Yes, there is no absolute proof of the non-exsistance or even exsistance of something. However, with the use of logic I am sure we can get pretty damn close. What we're looking for is what is rational for us to beileve?

Logic is absolute, it does not get "close" or farther away. There is no true rational to believe in your type of God, other than your own faith. Philosophers can logically prove the existence of God, but they cannot logically prove that he has any attributes that we consider close to our religious Gods.

edit: if you're asking if faith is rational, no, i don't believe it is. but we still value it.

 

[lyssword]

I have faith in bible/christianity. I do not go to church, but I believe God exists. Some of you here would think that I was forced to think that way and I don't really think for myself and i'm not open minded. But ask yourself, as an atheist what do you want to do? you probably want every religious person to agree with evolution etc. If you could get away with it you would probably destroy all the churches (like 50+ were set on fire in alabama). Are christians/religious people able to contribute to society? you bet. Most have jobs, a lot are scientists/engineers/doctors. Do they pay taxes to government? yes they do. And compared to secular society i think they are less likely to do drugs/be drunk (but that is not for a fact, because I have not researched it). You guys think that there is some misterious line that divides religious people/w non-religious. But I think we are all humans, and think very much alike except for few differences (like evolution etc). I don't want to force any belief on anyone, it is their choice. (people are no more forced into christinity then they are forced into buying Mountain Dew) But I also don't want to be forced to only believe in evolution and make it illegal to believe in God. Can't we just get along? 😀 (we mostly do, I believe 😀)

 

[DVK916]

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
I am religious. God is love and I have experienced love, so I know that He exists. The rest is details.

You've worded your response as a syllogism. But your conclusion doesn't follow logically. To see this, consider:

The sky is blue.
I see blue.
So I see the sky.

Therefore, some clarification is needed: What do you mean by, "God is love?"

Asking someone to logically prove the existence of their God is a mistake.

Even if the existence of God is proved, all proofs do not include all the religious attributes and characteristics of God.

There is also no logical proof that God doesn't exist, since God can be defined in any number of ways to escape any logic.

That may be so, but would be it rational to beileve in those god(s)?

Since we cannot rationally prove or disprove, the question is moot.

Yes, there is no absolute proof of the non-exsistance or even exsistance of something. However, with the use of logic I am sure we can get pretty damn close. What we're looking for is what is rational for us to beileve?

Logic is absolute, it does not get "close" or farther away. There is no true rational to believe in your type of God, other than your own faith. Philosophers can logically prove the existence of God, but they cannot logically prove that he has any attributes that we consider close to our religious Gods.

edit: if you're asking if faith is rational, no, i don't believe it is. but we still value it.

Nonsense. Faith in one self and others should be valued, but faith in some mythological sky fairy should not be. It is like having faith in Santa Clause.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
How can you not believe in God if you say you don't believe in Him. By picturing in your mind what you don't believe in, you create that thing. What you really don't believe in is what you have never named or thought about, no?

When you say you don't believe in God you know what you mean by God and that is your creation. To not believe in God is to create Him.

I don't believe this God you create with your disbelief exists. 😀

If I imagine a beast with 17 heads, each of a different animal, I've obviously "created" a "concept" of that beast in my mind. But does that beast actually exist?

I'm not trying to engage in semantics here. You used the word "create" and I used the word "exist." But when someone says they don't believe in God, they're actually saying that they don't believe God exists.

I understand that "God" is a special case. A philospher once defined God as the greatest thing you can conceive of as existing. It sounds like your own definition is that God is what you imagine God to be (though there is a problem with that definition: suppose someone imagines God to be a 5,000-foot tall purple elephant, easily detectable in the physical world, edible [tasting like tapioca], and providing complete nourishment?) By either of those definitions, God exists for everyone (although for each person, God would be at least slightly different).

I also recognize that the word "existence" is a tricky one when it comes to the metaphysical. What does it mean to "exist" outside the realm of the physical? If I "imagine" existence to mean "detectable by physical or electromagnetic measurement," isn't that what existence actually is? For me? So by that standard, merely imagining God doesn't give that imagined God existence.

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: DVK916

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
I am religious. God is love and I have experienced love, so I know that He exists. The rest is details.

You've worded your response as a syllogism. But your conclusion doesn't follow logically. To see this, consider:

The sky is blue.
I see blue.
So I see the sky.

Therefore, some clarification is needed: What do you mean by, "God is love?"

Asking someone to logically prove the existence of their God is a mistake.

Even if the existence of God is proved, all proofs do not include all the religious attributes and characteristics of God.

There is also no logical proof that God doesn't exist, since God can be defined in any number of ways to escape any logic.

That may be so, but would be it rational to beileve in those god(s)?

Since we cannot rationally prove or disprove, the question is moot.

Yes, there is no absolute proof of the non-exsistance or even exsistance of something. However, with the use of logic I am sure we can get pretty damn close. What we're looking for is what is rational for us to beileve?

Logic is absolute, it does not get "close" or farther away. There is no true rational to believe in your type of God, other than your own faith. Philosophers can logically prove the existence of God, but they cannot logically prove that he has any attributes that we consider close to our religious Gods.

edit: if you're asking if faith is rational, no, i don't believe it is. but we still value it.

Nonsense. Faith in one self and others should be valued, but faith in some mythological sky fairy should not be. It is like having faith in Santa Clause.

Why shouldn't faith in Santa Clause be valued? And you just proved that we do value faith.