Religion in the work place. What's your take?

[sao123]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: sao123
the point of freedom of religion is that you get to practise it everywhere... not only within the confines of your church/home.

Yes... that includes "at work" too.

errr no it does not.

the 1st amendment and the UHDR would both seem to disagree with your illogical opinion.

No, it doesn't. The first amendment (and the whole Constitution, for that matter) only applies to the federal government. A property owner can kick you out for any reason he sees fit, religion included.

theres quite a big stretch of difference between a private property owner, and a place of business. a place of business can be sued for any discrimination based on race creed sex or religion.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: sao123
theres quite a big stretch of difference between a private property owner, and a place of business. a place of business can be sued for any discrimination based on race creed sex or religion.

If there is blatant discrimination specifically against an employee based on religion, yes. However, an individual would have no case against a company that didn't allow them to use company emails to spread personal information like that.

 

[manowar821]

Keep it the hell away, please.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Religion is a protected class. If you start complaining about it the religious folks are the ones who can and should sue the heck out of the company.

-edit-

Oh yeah? You don't think there's something in their acceptable use policy that would cover the company's ass?

 

[GagHalfrunt]

If you don't like the religious signatures simply adopt one that says "All hail our Dark Lord Satan!!". The idiots with the sappy god slogans will be the ones to complain and the company will eliminate signatures at THEIR request.

 

[WaTaGuMp]

Religion belongs in chruch where you can choose to go if you wanna be involved in it.

 

[Descartes]

I wonder if the apologists in this thread would feel the same if Allah was used instead of God?

Business is not the place for projecting your political/religious/sexual identity. Keep it to yourself. At the very least you could alienate yourself from your colleagues, and at the worst you can impact the company should clients of a different persuasion find it offensive.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: sao123
the point of freedom of religion is that you get to practise it everywhere... not only within the confines of your church/home.

Yes... that includes "at work" too.

No, the point of freedom of religion is that the government has no right to tell you what you must or must not believe.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: sao123
the point of freedom of religion is that you get to practise it everywhere... not only within the confines of your church/home.

Yes... that includes "at work" too.

No, the point of freedom of religion is that the government has no right to tell you what you must or must not believe.

and the UDHR says (yes we are bound to international law, which was signed and accepted by the us):

Article 18
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

 

[datalink7]

While I would prefer that you keep it to yourself (no one I work with knows that I am an Atheist), stuff like that doesn't really bother me either. If someone does a prayer at a ceremony, I just take the moment to reflect on something. Signitures bother me even less.

 

[Deeko]

I wouldn't talk about it at work....but I don't talk to most of my coworkers about anything non-work related. I wouldn't really care if someone else did though.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: sao123
the point of freedom of religion is that you get to practise it everywhere... not only within the confines of your church/home.

Yes... that includes "at work" too.

No, the point of freedom of religion is that the government has no right to tell you what you must or must not believe.

and the UDHR says (yes we are bound to international law, which was signed and accepted by the us):

Article 18
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

I'm no lawyer, but I fail to see how this is at all the same. If you want to keep a Bible in your desk at the office, by all means do so. When you violate any use policies that a company has set, or your actions otherwise impact the company in any way I don't see how you'd ever be protected in such a circumstance.

Are you saying that if a company sets an acceptable use policy for email, cubicles or whatever that you can violate it because you're just "manifesting your religion"?

Is there a lawyer here that can shed light on this rather than go on with continuous debate?

 

[Cdubneeddeal]

Just as an update. This woman in the beginning would speak highly of god and how I was missing out. Would always invite me to her bible sessions and etc. I did get an argument with her once about God which she had no credible response for. I'm atheist btw.

I feel it shouldn't be allowed in the workplace at all. This is a corporation with what is supposed to be a professional environment.

 

[PrinceofWands]

It's fine, as long as you can do the same, no matter what. Update your outlook sig to read "Religion is the crutch of the simple-minded." If ANYONE objects, sue them and retire.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Cdubneeddeal
Just as an update. This woman in the beginning would speak highly of god and how I was missing out. Would always invite me to her bible sessions and etc. I did get an argument with her once about God which she had no credible response for. I'm atheist btw.

I feel it shouldn't be allowed in the workplace at all. This is a corporation with what is supposed to be a professional environment.

Agreed. Wouldn't that fall under harassment anyway if she persisted?

 

[AreaCode7O7]

I talked to my manager last week because a lunch with a few non-religious coworkers consisted of how stupid people who believe X are (not Scientology). Like I said above, I want work to be about work, but if you're going to bring your religion or lack thereof into it you should really take care to not bash others in any way or make people feel pushed into a corner. That includes telling people they may be going to hell AND references to the flying spaghetti monster. Religious and non-religious alike have grounds for offense depending on what is said.

 

[nageov3t]

my company requires that all signatures be exactly the same and contain nothing beyond name, title/department, company name, and contact info.

having a quote like that in a work email signature would strike me as unprofessional if it's being used in emails with clients.

 

[skace]

Doesn't bother me, however it's extremely unprofessional.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: KeithTalent

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: KeithTalent
If it's going out externally I don't think it's right because you never know who might get offended (clients or whatnot) then who cares. Internal only, then who cares.

KT

fixed.

If you are going to get your panties in a bunch and not do business with a company because of what someone puts in their email sig...they probably are not going to break a sweat trying to keep you....I wouldn't....there will be many others to replace you.

What kind of weird company do you work for? Besides, that's why a lot of companies have prescribed signatures or at the very least a policy describing what can and cannot be in a signature, particularly if the e-mails are going outside of the company.

KT

I worked for a franchise bottler of a popular band name soda. Until a take over were were the 7th largest in the nation, our product sold itself because of quality, price and service.

Money talks and bullshit walks....if you have a good product that is priced correctly and can offer the services required to back it up, people are more than willing to overlook a few words at the end of an email. We had a sales manager who had something similar at the end of his email an no customer ever said a word about it.

Like I said if any of our customers were to get worked up over something like this we had plenty to step in and take their place.

Likewise if I was a small business owner I would not worry about it because for every one person who gets so offended by something like this there are 2 or 3 who will appreciate it and a fill the void.

People need to work harder at working hard not getting offended at very fucking thing that they disagree with.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

"People need to work harder at working hard not getting offended at very fucking thing that they disagree with."
Amen, brother. 🙂

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: KeithTalent

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: KeithTalent
If it's going out externally I don't think it's right because you never know who might get offended (clients or whatnot) then who cares. Internal only, then who cares.

KT

fixed.

If you are going to get your panties in a bunch and not do business with a company because of what someone puts in their email sig...they probably are not going to break a sweat trying to keep you....I wouldn't....there will be many others to replace you.

What kind of weird company do you work for? Besides, that's why a lot of companies have prescribed signatures or at the very least a policy describing what can and cannot be in a signature, particularly if the e-mails are going outside of the company.

KT

I worked for a franchise bottler of a popular band name soda. Until a take over were were the 7th largest in the nation, our product sold itself because of quality, price and service.

Money talks and bullshit walks....if you have a good product that is priced correctly and can offer the services required to back it up, people are more than willing to overlook a few words at the end of an email. We had a sales manager who had something similar at the end of his email an no customer ever said a word about it.

Like I said if any of our customers were to get worked up over something like this we had plenty to step in and take their place.

Likewise if I was a small business owner I would not worry about it because for every one person who gets so offended by something like this there are 2 or 3 who will appreciate it and a fill the void.

People need to work harder at working hard not getting offended at very fucking thing that they disagree with.

I think you're missing the point. It's not about getting offended, it's about professionalism.

Just because it's religion doesn't make it any different than any other personal issue. If I ever showed up to work in a tank top, I'd probably be laughed out of the office and lose deals. Religious people seem to think that just because they believe this way that it's acceptable to promulgate their thoughts on the matter.

A rational, professional person understands this and it's why probably 99% of religious people operate in the workplace without issue. Doing the contrary suggests that you're out of touch with the basic sense of propriety in the workplace.

And, I'd still like an answer as to how you all would feel if it were about Allah, homosexuality, politics (NOBAMA, Bushisms, etc.) or anything similar. I imagine there wouldn't be many apologists for those issues.

[edit]Said "would" and meant "wouldn't"[/edit]

 

[Praxis1452]

I certainly wonder how most religious people would react in an office full of "militant" atheists. Militant in that they like to discuss the topic or religion in a secular viewpoint.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: daniel1113


Good comparison, considering one cannot choose his skin color but can absolutely choose his religion. Would you like to make any more giant leaps?

As for religion being a protected class, I should have been more specific. Employers are required to make reasonable accommodation for religious beliefs, but that's it. They can absolutely ban people from using corporate email to transmit personal information, religious or otherwise.

Does not matter. It is a perfectly valid comparison as the law considers them the same. You can't pick and choose which protected class you agree with.

Employer - "You need to remove the god from your signature"
Employee - "So your discriminating against my religion with disciplinary action?"
Employer - "Umm, errr, umm, that's not what I meant"
Employee - "That's what I thought. I'll keep my signature and my bible on my desk."

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: daniel1113


Good comparison, considering one cannot choose his skin color but can absolutely choose his religion. Would you like to make any more giant leaps?

As for religion being a protected class, I should have been more specific. Employers are required to make reasonable accommodation for religious beliefs, but that's it. They can absolutely ban people from using corporate email to transmit personal information, religious or otherwise.

Does not matter. It is a perfectly valid comparison as the law considers them the same. You can't pick and choose which protected class you agree with.

Employer - "You need to remove the god from your signature"
Employee - "So your discriminating against my religion with disciplinary action?"
Employer - "Umm, errr, umm, that's not what I meant"
Employee - "That's what I thought. I'll keep my signature and my bible on my desk."

ROFL!!! Only somebody that believes in invisible men is the sky could have such a farcical interpretation of fantasy law.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: sao123
the point of freedom of religion is that you get to practise it everywhere... not only within the confines of your church/home.

Yes... that includes "at work" too.

No, the point of freedom of religion is that the government has no right to tell you what you must or must not believe.

and the UDHR says (yes we are bound to international law, which was signed and accepted by the us):

Article 18
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

I'm no lawyer, but I fail to see how this is at all the same. If you want to keep a Bible in your desk at the office, by all means do so. When you violate any use policies that a company has set, or your actions otherwise impact the company in any way I don't see how you'd ever be protected in such a circumstance.

Are you saying that if a company sets an acceptable use policy for email, cubicles or whatever that you can violate it because you're just "manifesting your religion"?

Is there a lawyer here that can shed light on this rather than go on with continuous debate?

well there was a case in georgia where a company fired a woman because she refused to work on sunday because it was against her religion.
a court found that a company cannot force her to work on sunday provided that the day could be filled by another employee. The company was forced to give her her job back and give back pay.

I would says that counts.


she isnt sending email specifically un-job related (which would be a firable offense), she is merely using a religious based signature. IMO its no difference that someone trying to fire an employee for saying merry christmas vs happy holidays. it is discrimination, and it would be overturned.