It's like Wayne LaPierre going on about Obama grabbin' yer guns by not grabbin' your guns.
It's like Wayne LaPierre going on about Obama grabbin' yer guns by not grabbin' your guns.
Why would the GOP want to do that? Putin is on their side & they'll need all the help they can get.
I read through the Graham memo. Essentially, the conclusion that it draws in the end is that Steele either lied to the FBI about his press leakings or lied to the British court. Seems obviously true. It asserts that Steele's credibility was critical to the FBI's FISA application in the end stating "relied more heavily on Steele's credibility than on any independent corroboration or verification of his claims." That is decidedly different than saying there was no independent corroboration or verification of his claims, and the degree to which his credibility supported the warrant or the importance of the dossier claims to the warrant are disputable.
Nonetheless, there is no clear information provided that suggests the FBI had done anything improper. They provided what they knew to the court and appropriately stated why the felt Steele to be credible and their understanding of the conflicts with that credibility. This is at least true for the initial FISA application.
Us learning of more concern over Steele's motivations and leaking after the fact isn't really all that important. The information was used to support probable cause for surveillance of Carter Page. In the worst possible case, Page's wiretap led to no information material to a crime and his privacy was violated.
I do agree that, if we can take the memo at face value, the recommendation of charging Steele with the crime of lying to the FBI is a good one.
Nonetheless, there is no clear information provided that suggests the FBI had done anything improper. They provided what they knew to the court and appropriately stated why the felt Steele to be credible and their understanding of the conflicts with that credibility. This is at least true for the initial FISA application.
Us learning of more concern over Steele's motivations and leaking after the fact isn't really all that important. The information was used to support probable cause for surveillance of Carter Page. In the worst possible case, Page's wiretap led to no information material to a crime and his privacy was violated.
I do agree that, if we can take the memo at face value, the recommendation of charging Steele with the crime of lying to the FBI is a good one.
brandonbull
Diamond Member
- May 3, 2005
- 6,365
- 1,223
- 126
I thought there was an acknowledgement about the dossier being political to the courts.
soundforbjt
Lifer
- Feb 15, 2002
- 17,788
- 6,041
- 136
UNCjigga
Lifer
- Dec 12, 2000
- 25,597
- 10,295
- 136
Apparently the whole Obama Clinton texts thing is based off a memo (read: opinion) that Ron Johnson wrote, and surprise surprise, the timeline doesn't add up with when those texts were sent and other corresponding texts. They were clearly referring to the Russian meddling, as Obama was due to confront Putin a few days after those texts were sent.
Basically, Republicans got caught spreading shit again and Fox News just loves to lick up their taint.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/07/politics/ron-johnson-obama-clinton-investigation/index.html
https://www.vox.com/2018/2/7/16986222/trump-fbi-nunes-texts-page-strzok
ivwshane
Lifer
- May 15, 2000
- 33,559
- 17,087
- 136
Oh no way! Republicans were lying again? Oh man, I hope this doesn't turn into a pattern or a thing they do. I'm'a check out what fox has to say about this!
For a candidate who said he'd restore law & order Trump seems to be doing his dead level best to subvert the FBI & DoJ. This whole flap about Carter Page does absolutely nothing more than that.
I mean, how does wiretapping a guy who's not part of the campaign negatively affect the campaign or indicate bias against the campaign? It only makes sense in Trumplandia. Hell- the IC had issues with Page before he weaseled his way into the campaign, something they obviously viewed with a jaundiced eye. He's not a guy they want to see close to any President because they have reason to distrust him. Hell- they're just doing their job which is to protect all of us, including Trump, from the weasels.
I mean, how does wiretapping a guy who's not part of the campaign negatively affect the campaign or indicate bias against the campaign? It only makes sense in Trumplandia. Hell- the IC had issues with Page before he weaseled his way into the campaign, something they obviously viewed with a jaundiced eye. He's not a guy they want to see close to any President because they have reason to distrust him. Hell- they're just doing their job which is to protect all of us, including Trump, from the weasels.
Meghan54
Lifer
- Oct 18, 2009
- 11,684
- 5,228
- 136
Puffnstuff
Lifer
- Mar 9, 2005
- 16,215
- 4,900
- 136
brandonbull
Diamond Member
- May 3, 2005
- 6,365
- 1,223
- 126
Sorry. I meant to say that I had the understanding that the political nature and sourcing of the dossier was mis/under represented to the FISA courts.
brandonbull
Diamond Member
- May 3, 2005
- 6,365
- 1,223
- 126
whataboutism
Start a thread on that subject, support your position with actual sources. and we'll see where it goes.
Meghan54
Lifer
- Oct 18, 2009
- 11,684
- 5,228
- 136
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
- 111,866
- 31,364
- 146
- Jan 25, 2011
- 17,090
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- 146
Before I respond to what I think you mean I just want to clarify what deal it is you are referencing with the Ukrainians.
So what? Page quit the campaign before the warrant was issued. Saying it was an attack against the campaign is dishonest, particularly considering that the Trump camp dismissed his involvement as insignificant & disowned him.
Since when does Trump get to pretend he's not the President, anyway? He can order the release of the application for the warrant any time he wants, so why not do so & clear all of this up?
Because the intent is not to illuminate but rather to obfuscate. That's beyond obvious.
dank69
Lifer
- Oct 6, 2009
- 37,391
- 33,048
- 136
SMOGZINN
Lifer
- Jun 17, 2005
- 14,359
- 4,640
- 136
I'm sure he has a few links from Fox News, The National Inquirer, and Weekly World News that would prove it.
IronWing
No Lifer
- Jul 20, 2001
- 72,942
- 34,111
- 136
UNCjigga
Lifer
- Dec 12, 2000
- 25,597
- 10,295
- 136
https://www.snopes.com/2018/02/07/fake-news-bots-target-author-democratic-memo/
Since you only read troll news, I'll copy paste here:
Spot fires of other false rumors and questionable reporting popped up as well — for example, the conspiracy theory site TheDuran.com claimed that Schiff had “colluded” with a Ukrainian oligarch, offering no other evidence than a 2013 fundraiser for Schiff held by businessman Igor Pasternak, who has strong ties to Ukraine and who runs a small airships manufacturing company in Montebello, California.
On 6 February 2018 the British tabloid Daily Mail, along with right wing web sites including Breitbart and The Daily Caller regurgitated the original reporting of journalist Julia Ioffe in The Atlantic, part of which revealed Schiff had taken a phone call in April 2017 from two Russian “pranksters” impersonating a Ukrainian politician who led him to believe they had information about the Russia investigation. Ioffe’s report includes a key detail the aggregators neglected — the “pranksters,” Vladimir Kuznetsov and Alexey Stolyarov, may have Kremlin ties. [Audio of the call recording seems to indicate Schiff "played along" and said he'd be interested in naked photos of Trump, but he immediately reported the call to the FBI.]
You can monitor the live status of Russian troll campaigns here--looks like they've shifted from Schiff to Pelosi now, so expect a bunch of fake news on Pelosi today:
http://dashboard.securingdemocracy.org/
- Jan 25, 2011
- 17,090
- 9,576
- 146
Boooo I wanted him to say it before discrediting it. You ruined my day now
That's the narrative that the memos are trying to push, but there's no real evidence of that even within them.
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