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Relating to religion in modern society

Carlis

Senior member
Until recently I took little interest in religion and its moral. Then a huge debate blew up in Sweden about christianity and homosexuality. It is suggested that homosexuals should be allowed to mary and do so in church. Fine by me I thought. Im not religious.

Some artist created an exhibition showing jesus hanging out with gay men in rather kinky clothes. It gave rise to a lot of debate and anger but largely it was wellcomed as a great attempt to reform/point out homosexuals right in the church.

If one take a brief look in the mose book however there is a text there about sodom and gomorra. It describes how these to cities together with all its people were destroyed by God because homosexuals lived there. To me that settles it. It cant be possible to be a christian and still respect homoseuality. Actually I was chocked that the bible would go as far as propose a "genocide".

In another part of the old testimony the egyptians are punished for not letting the jews leave. Fair enough one would think but the punishment is that god kills their children by sending the deth-angel.

Quiet clearly, some parts of the bible are not very compatible with a civilized state.

I you want to rant on the koran it is just as easy. There are numerous parts in it proposing blodbaths among nonbelievers. The use of violence against non muslims etc. There is one part in the fourth surra that states "If your woman is obstructive in the bedroom, than take her from the bed and beat her".

To med this is very serious. Why should we judge religious ideologies any different from political ones? How would we regard a political ideology that suggest homosexuals are burnt to death?

Should we go down the current path of pretending that the holy books say the kind of things that we want ore should we confront them and point these things out? Personally i fell like throwing up when I read these pasages...
 
Originally posted by: leftyman
If God did not want gay people he would not have made them.

When you apply that argument to AIDS, Malaria, ebola etc, you get the feeling that he's a sadistic sumbitch 😉
 
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: leftyman
If God did not want gay people he would not have made them.

When you apply that argument to AIDS, Malaria, ebola etc, you get the feeling that he's a sadistic sumbitch 😉

That argument doesnt apply to your examples. Sorry, try again. 😛
 
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: leftyman
If God did not want gay people he would not have made them.

When you apply that argument to AIDS, Malaria, ebola etc, you get the feeling that he's a sadistic sumbitch 😉

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: leftyman
If God did not want gay people he would not have made them.

When you apply that argument to AIDS, Malaria, ebola etc, you get the feeling that he's a sadistic sumbitch <img src=---i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif--- border=---0--->[/quote]

[l= ...the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize something is f***ed up. Something is wrong here: war, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and The Ice Capades... Results like these does not belong on the resume of a supreme being. This is the kind of shiet you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude... In any decently run universe, this guy would've been out on his arse a long time ago. ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uBAPbOWLxc">[q</a>
George Carlin is a genius.
No one says it better than George Carlin.
 
"...the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize something is f***ed up. Something is wrong here: war, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and The Ice Capades... Results like these does not belong on the resume of a supreme being. This is the kind of shiet you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude... In any decently run universe, this guy would've been out on his arse a long time ago."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uBAPbOWLxc
 
Originally posted by: leftyman
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: leftyman
If God did not want gay people he would not have made them.

When you apply that argument to AIDS, Malaria, ebola etc, you get the feeling that he's a sadistic sumbitch 😉

That argument doesnt apply to your examples. Sorry, try again. 😛

George Carlin is a genius.

I stand corrected 😱
 
Originally posted by: leftyman
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: leftyman
If God did not want gay people he would not have made them.

When you apply that argument to AIDS, Malaria, ebola etc, you get the feeling that he's a sadistic sumbitch 😉

That argument doesnt apply to your examples. Sorry, try again. 😛

I don't know what i'm missing here. Let me try it for you:

If God did not want AIDS, Malaria, ebola etc he would not have made them.

Seems to work fine to me, maybe you're just 'special' 😉

Or did God NOT want those things? Are these not God's creations? 😛
 
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: leftyman
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: leftyman
If God did not want gay people he would not have made them.

When you apply that argument to AIDS, Malaria, ebola etc, you get the feeling that he's a sadistic sumbitch 😉

That argument doesnt apply to your examples. Sorry, try again. 😛

I don't know what i'm missing here. Let me try it for you:

If God did not want AIDS, Malaria, ebola etc he would not have made them.

Seems to work fine to me, maybe you're just 'special' 😉

Or did God NOT want those things? Are these not God's creations? 😛

Mind you I am not religious nor do I believe in God.

However It is my understanding that God fearin church goin people believe that homosexuality is a choice and thus a sin.

no one denies that God made AIDS, Malaria, ebola etc those are "Gods Will".

 
Originally posted by: leftyman
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: leftyman
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: leftyman
If God did not want gay people he would not have made them.

When you apply that argument to AIDS, Malaria, ebola etc, you get the feeling that he's a sadistic sumbitch 😉

That argument doesnt apply to your examples. Sorry, try again. 😛

I don't know what i'm missing here. Let me try it for you:

If God did not want AIDS, Malaria, ebola etc he would not have made them.

Seems to work fine to me, maybe you're just 'special' 😉

Or did God NOT want those things? Are these not God's creations? 😛

Mind you I am not religious nor do I believe in God.

However It is my understanding that God fearin church goin people believe that homosexuality is a choice and thus a sin.

no one denies that God made AIDS, Malaria, ebola etc those are "Gods Will".

On a pedantic note, your original quote says 'made', and nowhere do you mention choice, so perchance you understand my confusion?

😉
 
Originally posted by: dug777
On a pedantic note, your original quote says 'made', and nowhere do you mention choice, so perchance you understand my confusion?
😉[/quote]

I believe Gay people are born that way.

I believe that IF there is a God he made them that way.

Prevailing religious thought and doctrine is that it is a choice to be gay and thus a sin.

What dont you understand?
 
Originally posted by: leftyman
Originally posted by: dug777
On a pedantic note, your original quote says 'made', and nowhere do you mention choice, so perchance you understand my confusion?
😉

I believe Gay people are born that way.

I believe that IF there is a God he made them that way.

Prevailing religious thought and doctrine is that it is a choice to be gay and thus a sin.

What dont you understand?[/quote]

Dude. Please just stop confusing me. You're not making any sense.

You say:

I believe Gay people are born that way.

I believe that IF there is a God he made them that way.


So IF there is a God, how is him making those afflictions i mentioned ANY different?

You're original quote said 'made', my reply referred to things that were 'made', and prevailing religious doctrine has nothing to do with anything i've said.
 
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: leftyman
Originally posted by: dug777
On a pedantic note, your original quote says 'made', and nowhere do you mention choice, so perchance you understand my confusion?
😉

I believe Gay people are born that way.

I believe that IF there is a God he made them that way.

Prevailing religious thought and doctrine is that it is a choice to be gay and thus a sin.

What dont you understand?

Dude. Please just stop confusing me. You're not making any sense.

You say:

I believe Gay people are born that way.

I believe that IF there is a God he made them that way.


So IF there is a God, how is him making those afflictions i mentioned ANY different?

You're original quote said 'made', my reply referred to things that were 'made', and prevailing religious doctrine has nothing to do with anything i've said.[/quote]

I made my reference in response to the op's original statement:

Until recently I took little interest in religion and its moral. Then a huge debate blew up in Sweden about christianity and homosexuality. It is suggested that homosexuals should be allowed to mary and do so in church. Fine by me I thought. Im not religious. Until recently I took little interest in religion and its moral. Then a huge debate blew up in Sweden about christianity and homosexuality. It is suggested that homosexuals should be allowed to mary and do so in church. Fine by me I thought. Im not religious.

Some artist created an exhibition showing jesus hanging out with gay men in rather kinky clothes. It gave rise to a lot of debate and anger but largely it was wellcomed as a great attempt to reform/point out homosexuals right in the church.

If one take a brief look in the mose book however there is a text there about sodom and gomorra. It describes how these to cities together with all its people were destroyed by God because homosexuals lived there. To me that settles it. It cant be possible to be a christian and still respect homoseuality. Actually I was chocked that the bible would go as far as propose a "genocide".

you replied by saying that:

When you apply that argument to AIDS, Malaria, ebola etc, you get the feeling that he's a sadistic sumbitch

the OP is saying that God/religion does not accept homosexuality because it is unnatural ie; a choice and that God did not create gay people, they chose to be gay.

I am saying homosexuality is not a choice, that if there is a God he made gay people gay.

So IF there is a God, how is him making those afflictions i mentioned ANY different?

disease is not a lifestyle.

the diseases you mentioned kill people.

being gay in itself is not harmful.

being gay is not contagious.
 
Originally posted by: leftyman
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: leftyman
If God did not want gay people he would not have made them.

When you apply that argument to AIDS, Malaria, ebola etc, you get the feeling that he's a sadistic sumbitch 😉

That argument doesnt apply to your examples. Sorry, try again. 😛

I am sorry, but that logic totally applies to that. How is it logically any different?
 
Originally posted by: DaShen
Originally posted by: leftyman
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: leftyman
If God did not want gay people he would not have made them.

When you apply that argument to AIDS, Malaria, ebola etc, you get the feeling that he's a sadistic sumbitch 😉

That argument doesnt apply to your examples. Sorry, try again. 😛

I am sorry, but that logic totally applies to that. How is it logically any different?

so you equate homosexuality to a disease that needs to be cured?
 
Originally posted by: leftyman
Originally posted by: dug777
On a pedantic note, your original quote says 'made', and nowhere do you mention choice, so perchance you understand my confusion?
😉

I believe Gay people are born that way.

I believe that IF there is a God he made them that way.

Prevailing religious thought and doctrine is that it is a choice to be gay and thus a sin.

What dont you understand?[/quote]

It is as much of a choice as it is a natural inclination. The same way a person may choose to remain celibate for life, or celibate till marriage, how is that that much different. My natural inclination is to go out into the world and charm a whole bunch of women and spread my seed around to as many people as I can (and mind you with my understanding, this would not be hard for me <although IMO it would be a terrible thing to do to a person you respect without having some type of commitment> ), but I choose to wait till marriage and not be the manipulative assholes that many other guys out there tend to be.
 
Originally posted by: DaShen
Originally posted by: leftyman
Originally posted by: dug777
On a pedantic note, your original quote says 'made', and nowhere do you mention choice, so perchance you understand my confusion?
😉

I believe Gay people are born that way.

I believe that IF there is a God he made them that way.

Prevailing religious thought and doctrine is that it is a choice to be gay and thus a sin.

What dont you understand?

It is as much of a choice as it is a natural inclination. The same way a person may choose to remain celibate for life, or celibate till marriage, how is that that much different. My natural inclination is to go out into the world and charm a whole bunch of women and spread my seed around to as many people as I can (and mind you with my understanding, this would not be hard for me <although IMO it would be a terrible thing to do to a person you respect without having some type of commitment> ), but I choose to wait till marriage.[/quote]

That is your belief.

I dont believe what you believe.



 
Originally posted by: leftyman
Originally posted by: DaShen
Originally posted by: leftyman
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: leftyman
If God did not want gay people he would not have made them.

When you apply that argument to AIDS, Malaria, ebola etc, you get the feeling that he's a sadistic sumbitch 😉

That argument doesnt apply to your examples. Sorry, try again. 😛

I am sorry, but that logic totally applies to that. How is it logically any different?

so you equate homosexuality to a disease that needs to be cured?

I didn't say that, and i made it clear i didn't say that. You're poisonously twisting my words.

What i said makes perfect sense :roll:

They're all things God 'made', if you believe that.
 
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: leftyman
Originally posted by: DaShen
Originally posted by: leftyman
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: leftyman
If God did not want gay people he would not have made them.

When you apply that argument to AIDS, Malaria, ebola etc, you get the feeling that he's a sadistic sumbitch 😉

That argument doesnt apply to your examples. Sorry, try again. 😛

I am sorry, but that logic totally applies to that. How is it logically any different?

so you equate homosexuality to a disease that needs to be cured?

I didn't say that, and i made it clear i didn't say that. You're poisonously twisting my words.

What i said makes perfect sense :roll:

I was talking to DaShen look at the nested quotes.:disgust:

your f'ing up all by yourself, you dont need any help from me.
 
Originally posted by: leftyman
Originally posted by: DaShen
Originally posted by: leftyman
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: leftyman
If God did not want gay people he would not have made them.

When you apply that argument to AIDS, Malaria, ebola etc, you get the feeling that he's a sadistic sumbitch 😉

That argument doesnt apply to your examples. Sorry, try again. 😛

I am sorry, but that logic totally applies to that. How is it logically any different?

so you equate homosexuality to a disease that needs to be cured?

No, I don't. Actually, I have many gay friends who I respect and higly admire. Many of them seem to be more socially proactive than most of my hetero friends. I may not agree with their views on life totally, but I can still respect them and see them as human being that G-d created. 🙂 No big deal.

I am just pointing out that by your statement, logically it is the same thing. How is a bacteria that is created by G-d any less of a thing created by G-d than us? It is all created and by your premise therefore a good thing.

Again, though, I believe it is a natural inclination as well as a matter of choice. I know a few people who have homosexual thoughts and chose to get married and have kids and leave those natural tendencies behind them. They are perfectly happy with their lives. You might see that as tragic, but I don't. Again, this doens't make me see my friends who are gay as any less than human. They are great people deserving of my respect, and I do not believe homosexuality invalidates them from salvation either. It is just something they struggle with (or don't depending on their viewpoints on the matter) that I don't. I have just as many faults if not more than them (again my friends are some of the most giving people I have met and sometimes that shows the inadequacies in my own life).
 
Originally posted by: leftyman
[That is your belief.

I dont believe what you believe.

That is perfectly acceptable. 🙂 I enjoy your posts BTW because you tend to not be drawn to the banality that other posters tend to create.

**EDIT**

Originally posted by: leftyman
I was talking to DaShen look at the nested quotes.:disgust:

your f'ing up all by yourself, you dont need any help from me.

Let's not go down that road...
 
Originally posted by: leftyman
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: leftyman
Originally posted by: DaShen
Originally posted by: leftyman
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: leftyman
If God did not want gay people he would not have made them.

When you apply that argument to AIDS, Malaria, ebola etc, you get the feeling that he's a sadistic sumbitch 😉

That argument doesnt apply to your examples. Sorry, try again. 😛

I am sorry, but that logic totally applies to that. How is it logically any different?

so you equate homosexuality to a disease that needs to be cured?

I didn't say that, and i made it clear i didn't say that. You're poisonously twisting my words.

What i said makes perfect sense :roll:

I was talking to DaShen look at the nested quotes.:disgust:

your f'ing up all by yourself, you dont need any help from me.

Chill, winston.

Looking at the nested quotes, he's said my sentence made logical sense. You've then unwarrantedly drawn a parallel between those things and the gay people, and accused him, and thus me, of putting them in the same basket.

Or is that logic beyond you?

 
Originally posted by: leftyman
If God did not want gay people he would not have made them.

Let me give it a shot:

If God didn't want mass murderers and psychopaths he wouldn't have made them?

I am not trying to equate gays with any of the above, but I am just trying to say that God making/creating something doesn't mean %100 approval of it's actions and behavior, humans are given their own will and are responsible for their own actions no ifs and buts.
 
Originally posted by: leftyman
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: leftyman
If God did not want gay people he would not have made them.

When you apply that argument to AIDS, Malaria, ebola etc, you get the feeling that he's a sadistic sumbitch 😉

That argument doesnt apply to your examples. Sorry, try again. 😛

I am just pointing out that by your statement, logically it is the same thing. How is a bacteria that is created by G-d any less of a thing created by G-d than us? It is all created and by your premise therefore a good thing.

Again, my statement was in response to the OP's topic. Any religious person will believe that God created disease.
Few if any religious people believe God created homosexuals.
They believe it is a choice.
That is why I said his arguement doesnt apply.
 
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