Reinstitute the Draft now...

[prism]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Engineer
Write your Senators and Reps and see what they think.

:laugh:

I know what mine REALLY think because I pay attention. I know who on the hill is useful, and who is just there for the dinner parties and perks.

No, you really don't.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

but our training is the best in the world

That right there proves that you don't have a clue, but you do have an abundance of pride. I'm happy for your patriotism, but you don't know anything.

are you stating that America's military is NOT the most highly trained military in the world? umm, alrighty then, whose military is better trained and better equipped? just curious...

 

[conjur]

You just changed the question, didn't you? Ayup. You sure did.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: m316foley
Wow, it really sounds like you have the rambo-like mentallity. Anyone who isn't for the war, is a coward, or anyone who doesn't like the war is a coward...

Wrong, I meant that anyone who would run away if/when their Country asked them to serve would be a coward.

Wow, now you're starting to get a little personal. Ever heard of people with moral values who believe it's wrong to kill? You seem to put yourself up on a little pedastal there saying that you're beliefs are correct and everyone else's is wrong. Sounds a little arrogant to me, but hey, I'm a crazy liberal right?

perhaps it is a bit of arrogance, but I call it like I see it, based upon MY moral compass... take it or leave it, it's no skin off my back.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: conjur
You just changed the question, didn't you? Ayup. You sure did.

who changed what? huh?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Eeezee

but our training is the best in the world

That right there proves that you don't have a clue, but you do have an abundance of pride. I'm happy for your patriotism, but you don't know anything.

are you stating that America's military is NOT the most highly trained military in the world? umm, alrighty then, whose military is better trained and better equipped? just curious...

"One of these things is not like the other...."


You changed the question.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: m316foley
Wow, it really sounds like you have the rambo-like mentallity. Anyone who isn't for the war, is a coward, or anyone who doesn't like the war is a coward...

Wrong, I meant that anyone who would run away if/when their Country asked them to serve would be a coward.

I wouldn't call a draft "asking" someone to serve.

Wow, now you're starting to get a little personal. Ever heard of people with moral values who believe it's wrong to kill? You seem to put yourself up on a little pedastal there saying that you're beliefs are correct and everyone else's is wrong. Sounds a little arrogant to me, but hey, I'm a crazy liberal right?

perhaps it is a bit of arrogance, but I call it like I see it, based upon MY moral compass... take it or leave it, it's no skin off my back.

Trouble is, your moral compass is defective. Someone stuck a magnet on the far right.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Eeezee

but our training is the best in the world

That right there proves that you don't have a clue, but you do have an abundance of pride. I'm happy for your patriotism, but you don't know anything.

are you stating that America's military is NOT the most highly trained military in the world? umm, alrighty then, whose military is better trained and better equipped? just curious...

"One of these things is not like the other...."


You changed the question.

ohhh, ok.. so you're going to harp on the fact that I added "better equipped" in there? ok, remove it and answer the question:
Whose military is better trained than America's?

happy now? do you always look for some sort of way to spin your responses and that of others? How about simply allowing the poster I challenged to answer the damn question and be done with it? k? ty.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: conjur
Trouble is, your moral compass is defective. Someone stuck a magnet on the far right.

you see, that's where you're wrong... my compass is actually fairly centered on all matters beyond the GWOT. But when it comes to taking on fanatical Islam, I tend to pull no punches.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Eeezee

but our training is the best in the world

That right there proves that you don't have a clue, but you do have an abundance of pride. I'm happy for your patriotism, but you don't know anything.

are you stating that America's military is NOT the most highly trained military in the world? umm, alrighty then, whose military is better trained and better equipped? just curious...

"One of these things is not like the other...."


You changed the question.

ohhh, ok.. so you're going to harp on the fact that I added "better equipped" in there? ok, remove it and answer the question:
Whose military is better trained than America's?

happy now? do you always look for some sort of way to spin your responses and that of others? How about simply allowing the poster I challenged to answer the damn question and be done with it? k? ty.

Spinning *my* responses? I'm not spinning anything. I'm merely pointing out the spin you, yourself, added to your question to Eeezee. I haven't entered into that fray. That's between the two of you. Just pointing out you changed the question is all.

As for your moral compass, you've proven yourself in your posts. There's no way in hell you're a moderate. No way in hell.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: conjur
As for your moral compass, you've proven yourself in your posts. There's no way in hell you're a moderate. No way in hell.

define "moderate"..?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: conjur
As for your moral compass, you've proven yourself in your posts. There's no way in hell you're a moderate. No way in hell.

define "moderate"..?

That's a tough thing to do but I'd imagine a "moderate" would be someone who:

1) Doesn't favor pre-emptive invasions of countries that have never been a threat to the US
2) Doesn't favor corporate welfare
3) Doesn't favor socialized healthcare
4) Doesn't favor the removal of regulation of corporations (financially, environmentally, etc.) but isn't in favor of increasing them unnecessarily
5) Does favor balanced yearly budgets with pay-as-you-go modifications (supplemental funding bills means a cut occurs elsewhere)
6) Doesn't believe the military budget should be ~30% of the fiscal budget
7) Does favor a progressive tax structure that allows for the poor to essentially pay no taxes while keeping capital gains taxes at a minimum
8) Does favor conservation, environmental responsibility and exploration for alternative fuels
9) Doesn't favor an interventionist foreign policy
10) Does favor grants for college educations but not an overemphasis on standardized testing at the K-8 levels
11) Feels there are enough restrictions on abortion at this point to not require and further modifications
12) Believes in a hands-off approach for people's private lives (meaning what two consenting adults do is there business, not the government's)


I could probably come up with others but that's a general idea.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: conjur
As for your moral compass, you've proven yourself in your posts. There's no way in hell you're a moderate. No way in hell.

define "moderate"..?

That's a tough thing to do but I'd imagine a "moderate" would be someone who:

1) Doesn't favor pre-emptive invasions of countries that have never been a threat to the US

That statement is MUCH to open to interpretation and you obviously know my feelings in the case of Iraq and Afghanistan.

2) Doesn't favor corporate welfare

/agree

3) Doesn't favor socialized healthcare

/agree

4) Doesn't favor the removal of regulation of corporations (financially, environmentally, etc.) but isn't in favor of increasing them unnecessarily

/agree

5) Does favor balanced yearly budgets with pay-as-you-go modifications (supplemental funding bills means a cut occurs elsewhere)

situations such as wartime funding not withstanding, /agree.

6) Doesn't believe the military budget should be ~30% of the fiscal budget

I disagree completely. AFAIC, the military is one of the very few responsibilities of the federal government, and 1/3 of the budget sounds reasonable to me.

7) Does favor a progressive tax structure that allows for the poor to essentially pay no taxes while keeping capital gains taxes at a minimum

There is no way I will ever believe that there are some people who should not be taxed at all. a flat tax sounds great to me.

8) Does favor conservation, environmental responsibility and exploration for alternative fuels

/agree

9) Doesn't favor an interventionist foreign policy

do not agree.

10) Does favor grants for college educations but not an overemphasis on standardized testing at the K-8 levels

/agree on the grants, but I do believe that standardized testing is effective, and I'm willing to see money spent on programs that make the testing more effective.

11) Feels there are enough restrictions on abortion at this point to not require and further modifications

/agree

12) Believes in a hands-off approach for people's private lives (meaning what two consenting adults do is there business, not the government's)

/agree, but I do believe that during wartime, there CAN be some exceptions to this policy as long as the exceptions are well-regulated; probable cause must still be the basis for these exceptions.

...

sooo, it appears that I agree with alot of those statements... am I still "the devil" or have you realized that it is possible to disagree on any singular issue, but still remain moderate in others?

When it comes to the GWOT, I'm behind this administration 100%, but that does not mean that I agree with everything else they are doing.

 

[conjur]

You're a warmonger. Flat-out. And you want to take those making less than poverty wages? And you're a moderate?

Puh-leeze.

 

[sd2001]

Originally posted by: Stunt
People like you SHOULD go to the Middle East to see all the "good" you are doing over there. Maybe when people vote in and support a war, they should see what war does and how counter-productive and costly it is.

Good idea :thumbsup:

I was over there. I saw the schools we built. I saw the playgrounds we built. I saw the communities we brought electricity, water, and working sewage systems to. I got hugged and thanked almost every day. I saw the camera crews from CNN that preferred to film burnt husks of vehicles from some long-ago car explosion than children going to school for the first time.

I think the draft is a good idea, however not in the way that it was once implemented. Drafting those in support positions such as medical personnel, networking personnel, etc. There should definitely be an option for draftees to opt for combat positions, if they so choose, though.

I'm kind of tired of the whole, "If you support the war then you should go" mentality. Everyone that has been shipped to Iraq or Afhganistan signed up to defend their country. That means that they DID choose to go. It doesn't matter if they "support" the war or not. They signed a contract knowing that they may someday be called upon. Nowhere in there does it say "...or only if you support the specific mission."

I went. I support the war. I know what good it has brought.

 

[SophalotJack]

lol, owned.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: sd2001

Originally posted by: Stunt
People like you SHOULD go to the Middle East to see all the "good" you are doing over there. Maybe when people vote in and support a war, they should see what war does and how counter-productive and costly it is.

Good idea :thumbsup:

I was over there. I saw the schools we built. I saw the playgrounds we built. I saw the communities we brought electricity, water, and working sewage systems to. I got hugged and thanked almost every day. I saw the camera crews from CNN that preferred to film burnt husks of vehicles from some long-ago car explosion than children going to school for the first time.

I think the draft is a good idea, however not in the way that it was once implemented. Drafting those in support positions such as medical personnel, networking personnel, etc. There should definitely be an option for draftees to opt for combat positions, if they so choose, though.

I'm kind of tired of the whole, "If you support the war then you should go" mentality. Everyone that has been shipped to Iraq or Afhganistan signed up to defend their country. That means that they DID choose to go. It doesn't matter if they "support" the war or not. They signed a contract knowing that they may someday be called upon. Nowhere in there does it say "...or only if you support the specific mission."

I went. I support the war. I know what good it has brought.

Don't bore them with logic and truth, they still won't listen.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: conjur
You're a warmonger. Flat-out. And you want to take those making less than poverty wages? And you're a moderate?

Puh-leeze.

well I agreed with 8 of your list of 12 things that make you a moderate... so i guess i'll have to walk away from this labeled as a "Moderate Warmonger." so be it...

I always wondered what life would be like inside of a shell.. and now I know. TY for the insight Wormtongue!

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: sd2001

Originally posted by: Stunt
People like you SHOULD go to the Middle East to see all the "good" you are doing over there. Maybe when people vote in and support a war, they should see what war does and how counter-productive and costly it is.

Good idea :thumbsup:

I went. I support the war. I know what good it has brought.

So which "act of goodness" do the Iraqis appreciate more:

1) Having four hours of electricity per day.

2) Waiting six hours in line for gas that costs 5x more than it used to.

3) The new swing set you guys assembled.

Hrrmmmm...tough decisions, tough decisions.

 

[sd2001]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: sd2001

Originally posted by: Stunt
People like you SHOULD go to the Middle East to see all the "good" you are doing over there. Maybe when people vote in and support a war, they should see what war does and how counter-productive and costly it is.

Good idea :thumbsup:

I went. I support the war. I know what good it has brought.

So which "act of goodness" do the Iraqis appreciate more:

1) Having four hours of electricity per day.

2) Waiting six hours in line for gas that costs 5x more than it used to.

3) The new swing set you guys assembled.

Hrrmmmm...tough decisions, tough decisions.

I'm sure the assurance that they won't be strung up in torture chambers is probably high on that list.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: sd2001

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: sd2001

Originally posted by: Stunt
People like you SHOULD go to the Middle East to see all the "good" you are doing over there. Maybe when people vote in and support a war, they should see what war does and how counter-productive and costly it is.

Good idea :thumbsup:

I went. I support the war. I know what good it has brought.

So which "act of goodness" do the Iraqis appreciate more:

1) Having four hours of electricity per day.

2) Waiting six hours in line for gas that costs 5x more than it used to.

3) The new swing set you guys assembled.

Hrrmmmm...tough decisions, tough decisions.

I'm sure the assurance that they won't be strung up in torture chambers is probably high on that list.

Like this guy?

What about this guy?

Or maybe you meant him

Actually, I think you were talking about this guy

Still, it could have been this guy

 

[SuperStrokey]

Ok, i support the draft only if you invade that pesky Canada... no wait thats where i live! How about Mexico then... yes mexico...

 

[SuperStrokey]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: conjur
You're a warmonger. Flat-out. And you want to take those making less than poverty wages? And you're a moderate?

Puh-leeze.

well I agreed with 8 of your list of 12 things that make you a moderate... so i guess i'll have to walk away from this labeled as a "Moderate Warmonger." so be it...

I always wondered what life would be like inside of a shell.. and now I know. TY for the insight Wormtongue!

ill give you one thing, you sure did stir up a hornets nest! Fair bit of discussion on this and i guess thats one of the best things possible for something that would affect your nation a great deal... unfortunatly its pretty much slide into personal attacks and such but thats what happens on the good old internet!

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: SuperStrokey
Ok, i support the draft only if you invade that pesky Canada... no wait thats where i live! How about Mexico then... yes mexico...

Mexico is invading the US faster than the US could ever invade Mexico!

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: SuperStrokey
Ok, i support the draft only if you invade that pesky Canada... no wait thats where i live! How about Mexico then... yes mexico...

Mexico is invading the US faster than the US could ever invade Mexico!

Its revenge for 1846-1848.