Reid - be bipartisan, drop your extremism while we keep ours

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cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
The cybrsage argument is somewhat based on, Harry Reid should listen to Gandhi, who was much wiser than Harry Reid will ever be:" As Gandhi went on to say, ""Be the Change you want to see in the world."

So far, so good. I have to admit, I am surprised you have not jumped off the deep end yet.

But cybrsage would have to be totally delusional to think a Gandhi would think the GOP is that agent for a better change.

And there you go, right off the deep end. It saddens me you could read what was written in the first post (which is what you are talking about) and obtain this from it...especially when this is not what was written at all.

Lets try again:

1. Harry Reid says the Republicans need to drop their extremism.
2. Harry Reid said nothing about the Democrats needing to drop their extremism.
3. Gandhi said you have be the change you want to see happen.
4. Putting specifics into Gandhi's statement, Harry Reid would need to drop the extremism from his own party if he wants the Republicans to do the same.

Somehow, in all that, you magically derive that I claimed the GOP is a better instrument for change. Rational people would never have derived that, but you are not rational when it comes to Democrats. You leave your mind behind.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
You couldn't name a single Dem proposal that vaguely resembles the pandering & posing of the Ryan budget, at least not any that received enough support to mention.

Dems are far from perfect, but your use of the usual false equivalency indicates you're out of arguments- all you have left are insults to everybody's intelligence.

I certainly can, and Obama signed it. You don't remember a powerful Democrat saying that we needed to turn the billinto law to find out what is in the bill? Don't read it, just pass it?

It is known by most as Obamacare.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
I would call not even voting on bills passed by the majority of representatives in the House who, well, represent The People, as pretty damn extreme.

I wouldn't call cutting governement spending and debt as "extreme" either (remember, this is the mind of a liberal who believes these ideas are extreme and only in their mind, not reality), but that's the label democrats are going for. But when Obama tries to run against a do nothing congress, republicans will gladly point out all the bills they passed in the house that weren't even voted on in the democrat controlled senate.

It's going to be great, making Obama run against his own do nothing party in the Senate. Republicans are playing chess, democrats are playing soundbites, and it's going to bite them in the ass.

Why won't Senate Republicans allow a simple up or down vote on various Obama nominees to the courts and government agencies? But let me guess, you think that's perfectly reasonable.

See how easy it is to play this game?
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Why won't Senate Republicans allow a simple up or down vote on various Obama nominees to the courts and government agencies? But let me guess, you think that's perfectly reasonable.

See how easy it is to play this game?

I'm not aware of republicans preventing a vote for those appointments provided appropriate senate hearings are in order. Since republicans do not control the Senate, Reid can call those hearings and votes to order. Just what are you trying to get at? Do democrats not have the votes, just as they don't have the votes to stop house bills from being passed? You trying to tell me republicans control the Senate now? (just wait until after the election when republicans have super majority, then we get to go scorched earth on you fucking libtards, it will be glorious)

Remember, it is Obama disobeyed the Constitution with "recess" appointments even though the senate is still in session.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
I'm not aware of republicans preventing a vote for those appointments provided appropriate senate hearings are in order. Since republicans do not control the Senate, Reid can call those hearings and votes to order. Just what are you trying to get at? Do democrats not have the votes, just as they don't have the votes to stop house bills from being passed? You trying to tell me republicans control the Senate now? (just wait until after the election when republicans have super majority, then we get to go scorched earth on you fucking libtards, it will be glorious)

Remember, it is Obama disobeyed the Constitution with "recess" appointments even though the senate is still in session.

Now you're just lying. The Repub Senate minority has a variety of methods at their disposal to block nominees, from secret holds to outright filibuster, something they've done at an unprecedented level.

If they weren't, then why would Obama have to resort to recess appointments?

Can't have it both ways, Spidey.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
1. Harry Reid says the Republicans need to drop their extremism.
2. Harry Reid said nothing about the Democrats needing to drop their extremism.

Your second statement includes the false assumption that Democrats are extremist. Repeating it over and over won't make it true. In fact, it's clear that Republicans ARE extremist and Democrats are mainstream. Want proof?

Republicans are adamant that every penny of reduction in the yearly budget must come from reduced spending. Not a single penny may come from increased taxes.

Democrats tried to negotiate a plan involving 50% cuts and 50% tax increases. When that was rejected by House Republicans, Obama offered a deal involving $1.7 trillion is cuts and $800 billion in new taxes. Guess what? House Republicans rejected that deal, too. Finally, Obama proposed to Boehner the "Grand Bargain," a $4 billion deal that would have involved significantly more spending cuts than tax increases.

From Politico:

Tax policy disputes were at the center of the collapse, including differences with the White House over President Barack Obama’s demand that future tax reforms must maintain or increase the progressivity of the tax code. But for days Boehner has been under relentless pressure from conservatives to step away from the deal, which Saturday’s Wall Street Journal editorial writers dubbed “Boehner’s Obama Gamble.”

Boehner had effectively agreed to decouple the high-end tax rates of the Bush era from the middle and lower income rates favored by Democrats. But before anything changed in 2013, he was promised enactment of broad reform — covering personal and corporate taxes — with the goal of lowering rates by establishing a more efficient code. …

Nonetheless, it was a tall order given the assumption that the deal would also yield close to $1 trillion in new revenues over 10 years. Ending oil and gas tax breaks, as well as the favorable “carried interest” capital gains rates used to shelter investor income, would be part of the picture. But reform also would have to contribute its share of new revenues.

From the Washington Post:

The sweeping deal Obama and Boehner had been discussing would have required both parties to take a bold leap into the political abyss. Democrats were demanding more than $800 billion in new tax revenue, causing heartburn among the hard-line fiscal conservatives who dominate the House Republican caucus. Republicans, meanwhile, were demanding sharp cuts to Medicare and Social Security, popular safety net programs that congressional Democrats have vowed to protect.

Obama, at least, was willing to make that leap and had put significant reductions to entitlement programs on the table. But on Saturday, Boehner blinked: Republican aides said he could not, in the end, reach agreement with the White House on a strategy to permit the Bush-era tax cuts for the nation’s wealthiest households to expire next year, as lawmakers undertook a thorough rewrite of the tax code.

So the deal would have involved $800 billion to $1 trillion in new tax revenuse and $3+ trillion in spending cuts, including reduction in entitlement programs. But House Republicans again said no. "No new taxes."

Numerous polls have shown that a sizable majority of the American people believe that a combination of cuts and taxes is the correct approach. And by the way, a large majority of economists also believe that a combination of cuts and taxes is the only rational way out of America's economic problems.

Extremist: a supporter or advocate of extreme doctrines or practices.

Extreme: beyond the ordinary or average

By definition, since what the Democrats want is supported by the majority, it's not extreme. But knock yourself out with that "Democrats are extremist" doctrine. I'm sure you can find an extremist minority to agree with you.
 

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
lets see harry ried "passed" obamacare liberal healthcare under the cover of darkness.

And the left claims he's not some left wing hack.

Oh btw, obama is moderate. LOL.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
73,184
34,520
136
lets see harry ried "passed" obamacare liberal healthcare under the cover of darkness.

And the left claims he's not some left wing hack.

Oh btw, obama is moderate. LOL.
Obamacare isn't a left wing plan. It is a corporatist plan. The left wing was locked out of the debate early. A single payer system wasn't even allowed to come up for discussion. Harry Reid helped make that happen.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Exactly. "Liberal Healthcare" is Medicare for all. Obamacare is a Republican plan from the 90s.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
What modern Righties lack is perspective. The tenets of the far Right haven't changed in 100 years, but their voice has become louder as they've taken control of the so-called "Liberal Media".

The Left, OTOH, the real American Left, not the faux imaginary Left that Righties vilify constantly, has faded, nearly disappeared entirely. But they somehow find ways to represent Dems as if they were advocating the Dictatorship of the Proletariat, that they're the "Extremists" when the only influential extremists in American politics are on the Right.

Not that I believe in it, at all, but what the American Right needs is a counterbalance, real Leftists like in France or most other parts of the world. That way, negotiations would start from both extremes, meet in the middle, and they'd have to stop lying about who's a Leftist & who isn't...
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
What modern Righties lack is perspective. The tenets of the far Right haven't changed in 100 years, but their voice has become louder as they've taken control of the so-called "Liberal Media".

The Left, OTOH, the real American Left, not the faux imaginary Left that Righties vilify constantly, has faded, nearly disappeared entirely. But they somehow find ways to represent Dems as if they were advocating the Dictatorship of the Proletariat, that they're the "Extremists" when the only influential extremists in American politics are on the Right.

Not that I believe in it, at all, but what the American Right needs is a counterbalance, real Leftists like in France or most other parts of the world. That way, negotiations would start from both extremes, meet in the middle, and they'd have to stop lying about who's a Leftist & who isn't...

This is what you are fighting against America. This is the true enemy, and this kind of thinking img is in our country.

Defeat it. Stop it. Kill it. November.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
This is what you are fighting against America. This is the true enemy, and this kind of thinking img is in our country.

Defeat it. Stop it. Kill it. November.

Like I offered, all the extremists are on the Right...
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
I'm not aware of republicans preventing a vote for those appointments provided appropriate senate hearings are in order. Since republicans do not control the Senate, Reid can call those hearings and votes to order. Just what are you trying to get at? Do democrats not have the votes, just as they don't have the votes to stop house bills from being passed? You trying to tell me republicans control the Senate now? (just wait until after the election when republicans have super majority, then we get to go scorched earth on you fucking libtards, it will be glorious)

Remember, it is Obama disobeyed the Constitution with "recess" appointments even though the senate is still in session.

Moderators: Please ban this poster for blatant dishonesty. This troll knows darn well what the Senate rules are for nominees, including Judicial nominees. He's out and out lying.

Please ban this troll.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
From wiki:

"Senate
Main article: Filibuster in the United States Senate

In the United States Senate, rules permit a senator, or a series of senators, to speak for as long as they wish and on any topic they choose, unless "three-fifths of the Senators duly chosen and sworn"[36] (usually 60 out of 100 senators) brings debate to a close by invoking cloture under Senate Rule XXII. According to the Supreme Court ruling in United States v. Ballin (1892), changes to Senate rules could be achieved by a simple majority. Nevertheless, under current Senate rules, a rule change itself could be filibustered, with two-thirds of those senators present and voting (as opposed to the normal three-fifths of those sworn) needing to vote to end debate.[36] Despite this written requirement, the possibility exists that the filibuster could be changed by majority vote, using the so-called nuclear option, also sometimes called the constitutional option by proponents. Even if a filibuster attempt is unsuccessful, the process takes floor time. In recent years the majority has preferred to avoid filibusters by moving to other business when a filibuster is threatened and attempts to achieve cloture have failed.[37]"
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
37,455
33,160
136
I certainly can, and Obama signed it. You don't remember a powerful Democrat saying that we needed to turn the billinto law to find out what is in the bill? Don't read it, just pass it?

It is known by most as Obamacare.
Wow, what an extremist piece of legislation, mostly born from conservative ideas. :rolleyes:
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
lets see harry ried "passed" obamacare liberal healthcare under the cover of darkness.

And the left claims he's not some left wing hack.

Oh btw, obama is moderate. LOL.


No single payer, no public option, no medicare buy in. A direct copy of the republican plan with over 100 republican amendments and compromises with the hick state democrats and a few republicans voting for it... What about it was "liberal"?

Does "cover of darkness" mean an entire year of debates/talks?

And yeah, nothing about Obama makes him "liberal." If you mean decades behind other first world countries, then that makes him moderate at best.
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
"Originally Posted by cybrsage
I certainly can, and Obama signed it. You don't remember a powerful Democrat saying that we needed to turn the billinto law to find out what is in the bill? Don't read it, just pass it?

It is known by most as Obamacare."

An easy talking point parroted by the republicans for their gullible fans to lap it up without thought.

What was actually said was that with all the BS fearmongering like "death panels", people wouldn't actually find out what was REALLY in the bill until it was passed... which for the most part is true. However, some people still have no clue because they only get their info from republican talking points.

You really showed your ignorance by parroting such nonsense. Really, try thinking for yourself for once. Try actually READING the sources and the context in which they were said.

Absolutely sad and pathetic.
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
This is what you are fighting against America. This is the true enemy, and this kind of thinking img is in our country.

Defeat it. Stop it. Kill it. November.

You want to defeat moderate america and make it extreme right wing only. More Patriot act, more spying on americans, more war, more corporate welfare.

Our Democrats are right wing in the rest of the civilized world. We have moderates at one extreme, and super insane right wing at the other side. You choose the insane. No surprise considering you live in a hick state and collect guns out of fear/paranoia.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
You want to defeat moderate america and make it extreme right wing only. More Patriot act, more spying on americans, more war, more corporate welfare.

Our Democrats are right wing in the rest of the civilized world. We have moderates at one extreme, and super insane right wing at the other side. You choose the insane. No surprise considering you live in a hick state and collect guns out of fear/paranoia.

That's not moderate America. America want's nothing to do with european socialism which is what he and the left are pushing. There is a small minority of hard core socialists in the country and that is what the left on this board so embrace. That is the enemy of this nation and that kind of thinking needs to be eliminated and not allowed anywhere near our governing bodies - the eurpoean experiment is a failure.

America doesn't want to be europe, just look at what's going on over there for proof as to why that mentality is to be squashed in this country.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
No single payer, no public option, no medicare buy in. A direct copy of the republican plan with over 100 republican amendments and compromises with the hick state democrats and a few republicans voting for it... What about it was "liberal"?

Does "cover of darkness" mean an entire year of debates/talks?

And yeah, nothing about Obama makes him "liberal." If you mean decades behind other first world countries, then that makes him moderate at best.

Do you mean the 1st world countries that are being downgraded by S&P? I think that Obama is striving mightily to follow in their footsteps.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/14/us-eurozone-sp-idUSTRE80C1BC20120114
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Your second statement includes the false assumption that Democrats are extremist. Repeating it over and over won't make it true. In fact, it's clear that Republicans ARE extremist and Democrats are mainstream. Want proof?

You only view it this way because you agree with them. It is a normal human bias. Humans always see those they agree with as being mainstream.

Simple as that. Once you accept that you have a normal human bias and decide to move past it, you will understand what I have been saying is true.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
Somehow, in all that, you magically derive that I claimed the GOP is a better instrument for change. Rational people would never have derived that, but you are not rational when it comes to Democrats. You leave your mind behind.

You never claimed the GOP is a better instrument for change, but you also never criticized them for not being a better instrument for change, either.

That was the point of my "I dare you..." thread.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
You never claimed the GOP is a better instrument for change, but you also never criticized them for not being a better instrument for change, either.

That was the point of my "I dare you..." thread.

I also never claimed that coffee tastes better than tea. If something is not relevant, why would I bring it up?

And your I dare you thread failed because you would not even follow your own dare.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
I also never claimed that coffee tastes better than tea. If something is not relevant, why would I bring it up?

I don't mean in this thread, I mean in any that you create.

And your I dare you thread failed because you would not even follow your own dare.

I did, actually. I named two things, one from each side, that I do not support.

I am also not the hyper-partisan in my posts and threads that those who were the target audience of the "I dare you..." thread are.

You even said yourself you don't know if I have a "side". Those who don't have a side are not who that thread was aimed at.