Regulators could require 62mpg by 2025? lol wut?

[Zebo]

Most suvs are not 4WD. Most cars are not AWD. Looking at fueleconomy.gov, there appears to be about 5% penalty for 4wd,AWD.




Just remember the added horsepower does add fuel economy. These vehicles do not have to work very to maintain speed once they reach it. And they will get far better fuel economy when they have load. I wont disagree that a smaller engine will get the job done, but the larger engine will do it better and with improved fuel economy.

The 250 and 350 often share the same engine as the f150. The base engine for 250/350 has the same engine optional engine available in the f150. It only has more power if a buyer were to get the v10 or diesel. And you dont get those unless you are doing a lot of towing.



And the small truck market is about dead in this country. When people see the fuel economy difference between a tacoma or a ranger, they opt for the full size truck.

It appears the 2011 f-150 will have 300hp v6, 6 speed transmission and get better than 23mpg on the highway. Would anyone buy a little truck, when they could get this?

I drive an F350 and get way way way better than any lt truck such as F150/Tundra and get better mileage than my towncar. The key is Diesel. I get ~ 23-25MPG and when I'm towing horses or pontoon boat which is a brick going through air about 18, F350 weighs 8000lbs while F150s weigh only 5000.

The smaller trucks need diesel not v6's IMO. I bet I get better mileage than a tacoma/frontier too with their little 4 bangers.

Course I still think electric is the way to go for pollution and not enriching a bunch stone age fundis.

 

[ShawnD1]

Most suvs are not 4WD. Most cars are not AWD. Looking at fueleconomy.gov, there appears to be about 5% penalty for 4wd,AWD.

???

Honda Accord V6 (FWD) - 24mpg combined
Honda Accord Crosstour V6 (AWD) - 21mpg combined
((24/21) -1) * 100 = 14% more gasoline consumed

And the small truck market is about dead in this country. When people see the fuel economy difference between a tacoma or a ranger, they opt for the full size truck.

Which is strange because the difference is significant. The difference between the Tacoma and the Tundra is about 100HP and about 10-20% fuel consumption. Adding 100HP is always in that range. I4 Honda Accord vs the V6, small truck vs big truck, etc.

It's always the extras that get ya. 20% more fuel consumed if you want the V6 instead of the I4. 20% more gas if you want AWD. Maybe an extra 20% more gas if you change the gear ratios around (cars with 6-speed standards tend to have horrendous gas mileage for some reason).

 

[CycloWizard]

Uhhh... a part of that breaks out to, "A government must always do the exact opposite of what anyone believes it should do," because that's the only way to protect another from what a person thinks the government should be doing.
But you went ahead and said you believed in the generalized form of that, meaning that the government can't do that or it would align with your beliefs, negating the protection of others from that belief. So to protect others from your belief it can't protect them from your belief, because protecting others from your belief is what your belief is.

Anyway, it was a stupid thing to say. Policing private citizen's actions is only a tiny portion of what a government does. It isn't even necessary for a government to be a government.

Welcome to the forum. You're well on your way to being a P&N regular, already meeting the prerequisite illiteracy, fallacious argument, and insult - all in our first interaction! Too bad we don't have a :cookie; anymore for me to give you. But, assuming that you don't know what a fallacy is, here's a quick breakdown:

Strawman: "a part of that breaks out to," followed by something which does not even remotely resemble anything I wrote, yet you put it in quotes, then attacked it.

Appeal to ridicule: "Anyway, it was a stupid thing to say."

The only substantial statements in your post are here:

Policing private citizen's actions is only a tiny portion of what a government does. It isn't even necessary for a government to be a government

What is the point of government, then? I operate on the premise that the purpose of the US government is to protect the rights of its citizens. Thomas Jefferson famously agreed with me:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed...

 

[Moonbeam]

The best tool for forcing conservation is price. Far better than cafe.

I don't know the answers to our problems with MPG, but I would think there are some problems with what you say here? The best way to force conservation may be price but is that really the issue. If we run out of oil or if oil is so expensive that conservation means folk can't drive, it's the end of America as a driving nation. That is essentially the end of America as we know it. In short, in a country where everybody pretty much depends on a car to live, forcing everybody to drive a car that means everybody else will still be able to drive even if not as they wish to, is better than economic destruction of the nation. If five folk have to cross a desert on 50 gallons of water, no one of them can't take a bath and the four others are going to have to shoot him if one tries.

 

[lothar]

???

Honda Accord V6 (FWD) - 24mpg combined
Honda Accord Crosstour V6 (AWD) - 21mpg combined
((24/21) -1) * 100 = 14% more gasoline consumed



Which is strange because the difference is significant. The difference between the Tacoma and the Tundra is about 100HP and about 10-20% fuel consumption. Adding 100HP is always in that range. I4 Honda Accord vs the V6, small truck vs big truck, etc.

It's always the extras that get ya. 20% more fuel consumed if you want the V6 instead of the I4. 20% more gas if you want AWD. Maybe an extra 20% more gas if you change the gear ratios around (cars with 6-speed standards tend to have horrendous gas mileage for some reason).

There's only a 5% difference.
Yours is an Apples to Oranges comparison.
Here's an actual Apples to Apples comparison.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008seleeng2f.jsp?year=2010&make=Honda&model=Accord Crosstour 2WD


http://img826.imageshack.us/i/crosstour2wd4wd.png/ (In case Image shack doesn't show the picture)


Actually, a lot of people with the V6 Accord are getting better mileage than the I4 Accord through hyper-mileing(unsure of correct spelling?).
The V6 has technology that shuts the engine down from 6 cylinders to 3 cylinders when not needed. That's certainly better than driving with 4 cylinders running non-stop unless you're in stop and go traffic.