Regarding the Mosque and Islam in America

[GarfieldtheCat]

Cocksuckerthecat, nobody is saying that Islam is out to kill us. You cant read, Cocksuckerthecat

Way to go with the insults....grow up kid. It was proved in other threads that your posts show you are bigoted, but you wish to ignore that, and hurl disgusting personal insults instead. Again, grow up.

Tinker said he wants to kill those that "wish harm", and you, typically, agreed with him.

His quote is here:

No, I am very happy to kill those who wish harm upon my countrymen

Now, you can try to argue that there is a difference between "wish harm" and killing, but I think everyone here knows what that means.

In any event, even if it is just "harm" instead of killing, my point is correct and still stands.

So link to proof that all (or even a majority) of Islam is out to "wish harm" on you and others?

 

[Infohawk]

Ahh, I see bigot1985 and you are out trolling and showing your incredible ignorance again...

Way to go with the insults....grow up kid.

How uncomfortable is that cognitive dissonance?

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

How uncomfortable is that cognitive dissonance?

Truth isn't cognitive dissonance....he has shown on multiple threads he is a bigot, and when presented with proof and definitions of what a bigot is, he couldn't (or wouldn't) defend his posts, but bailed from the thread.

So when someone makes bigoted statements, defends those statements as true, refuses to face factual evidence about bigotry, what would you call someone? I call them, a bigot. It's a true statement.

 

[tinker2141]

Ahh, I see bigot1985 and you are out trolling and showing your incredible ignorance again. Kids nowadays just don't even know what they are talking about anymore.

Please provide proof that all of islam is out to kill you and bigot1985 please. We'll be waiting. Or even proof that 90% are out to kill you. So 1.5billion Muslims are trying to find you and bigot1985 and kill you, LOL. Yea right. Better hide under your bed so they don't find you.

I see Christians killing abortion doctors, and I haven't seen 90% of all Christians immediately protest it. Hmmm.....I guess by your (lack of) logic, that makes all of Christianity complicit and guilty as well.

You and bigot985 just go to show the how we as a country are becoming more ignorant about facts, and instead tend to make up whatever you think is right. Well done for ignoring facts and making up your own.

I made nothing up. You all sit here and scream for equality for a religion yet have marginalized every other one on earth. What makes them so damn special? Why do they get a free pass? Oh I know because they use fear tactics to keep you in line. I am not in favor of any religion. I want them all to be equally nullified in all societies. Way to go, liberal asshattery at its finest.

 

[nick1985]

Way to go with the insults....grow up kid.

So you call me a bigot and I return fire and you get butthurt that I used an insult? Are you fucking serious? beautiful being

 

[piasabird]

If it is the Muslims that go out of their way to create an anti-muslim feeling then maybe they deserve to be treated differently. They should be careful of what they are asking us to do. Do they want to start a culture war? People tend to want to protect themselves from acts of terror. What do you expect?

 

[Infohawk]

If it is the Muslims that go out of their way to create an anti-muslim feeling then maybe they deserve to be treated differently. They should be careful of what they are asking us to do. Do they want to start a culture war? People tend to want to protect themselves from acts of terror. What do you expect?

You don't get it. Muslims never have to be sensitive about anything. Stoning, antisemitism, gay-bashing is all part of their religion and therefore sacred. It's a one way street and double-standard in Islam's favor. How do you think Islam has spread to all corners of the world?

 

[Craig234]

You don't get it. Muslims never have to be sensitive about anything. Stoning, antisemitism, gay-bashing is all part of their religion and therefore sacred. It's a one way street and double-standard in Islam's favor. How do you think Islam has spread to all corners of the world?

No, idiot, there's right and wrong, and it's wrong when either side does it.

Your argument is 'they aren't perfect so we can do anything we want and it's ok'.

Being authoritarian, brutal, one-sided, aggressive to get rid of diversity, CAN work effectively sometimes in gaining power. That doesn't make it a good idea to do yourself.

It reminds me a bit of the cold war. "But the commies censor any opposing views, which helps them keep power - so why don't WE do that? We can't afford the bickering!"

Well, as the left had to remind the right many times, because we don't want to be them with their flaws, we want to remember there are things making our system better.

 

[Infohawk]

Your argument is 'they aren't perfect so we can do anything we want and it's ok'.

That's not my argument.

And why are you generalizing into we and they. Muslims are Americans too dammit! How fucking dare you.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Fear from the far right has propagated extremist views similar to religious extremists.

 

[Infohawk]

nm

 

[Rainsford]

If it is the Muslims that go out of their way to create an anti-muslim feeling then maybe they deserve to be treated differently. They should be careful of what they are asking us to do. Do they want to start a culture war? People tend to want to protect themselves from acts of terror. What do you expect?

There is no "they", don't you get that? There are a lot of Muslims out there...some are good people, some are not (a dynamic that's hardly unique to Islam, after all). Trying to figure out some generic way to treat "them" is pointless and even counterproductive. There is nothing wrong with wanting to "protect ourselves from acts of terror", but personally I think that goal is better served by going after violent radicals like Osama bin Laden not, for example, harassing a guy trying to build a community center.

 

[tinker2141]

There is no "they", don't you get that? There are a lot of Muslims out there...some are good people, some are not (a dynamic that's hardly unique to Islam, after all). Trying to figure out some generic way to treat "them" is pointless and even counterproductive. There is nothing wrong with wanting to "protect ourselves from acts of terror", but personally I think that goal is better served by going after violent radicals like Osama bin Laden not, for example, harassing a guy trying to build a community center.

I am curious why they do not call it what it truly is? The ignorant call it a Mosque and the backers say community center. How about madrasah? Yes that describes it quit accurately.

 

[Jaskalas]

No, I am very happy to kill those who wish harm upon my countrymen.

A new register. Did you sign up today, on this special occasion to wish Muslims dead? Anyone taking notes?

This is the sort of thing that's dredged up by September 11th. This is the scar, the damage done. People do not trust Islam. They don't trust Muslims. There's this image out there that they wish to do us harm.

That is precisely what needs to be addressed. We need outreach efforts that reward moderates combined with media attention which would act to certify it. When images of violent threats are replaced by peaceful teachings, with helping hands, with American stories.

When the foreign and violent imagery, which holds a monopoly on the Islamic image, is replaced by a friendly American image - then the American people can begin to believe it. They can begin to understand and empathize with it. The scar of September 11th, which threatens them, can be undone. The violence which we wish to contain, on both sides, can be marginalized.

 

[Infohawk]

A new register. Did you sign up today, on this special occasion to wish Muslims dead?

I don't think that's really what he said...

 

[tinker2141]

I don't think that's really what he said...

No it went right over his head.

 

[Jaskalas]

Officially, I'm not sure Congress can pass any such law as it would violate the first amendment. That said, I do agree that our leaders need to do more to encourage a discussion about religious tolerance, and in fact, tolerance in general.

First, if Congress has proven anything it's that it'll pass anything it damn well pleases. Their regard for constitutional limitations is historic in nature, and quite unlike anything they do today.

Like the tax codes, any law may to written to apply generally to everyone, yet with conditions that directly apply it to someone. This could be no different, any outreach program could be universal while given specific criteria that match our agenda.

Second, your point seems to sound a lot like Craig and Democrats which I must warn you. This focus on our tolerance, on what we must do. Yes, we must do our part, though I fear what you're missing if this were only about us and you left Islam out entirely.

Tolerance is important, but their part is no less than ours.

All we can do is lend out our hand and give the moderates a chance to rise above the rest. Without them on the front line, as our first line of defense, there can be no trust. We have to do everything possible to get that sort of cooperation, of that assimilation into our society.

I think today is a day that we can all use to step back away from the noise and chatter to remember that the things we have in common are much greater than the differences we have. If such a horror was to repeat itself again, I still believe our petty squabbles would be put aside.

I'm certain that if it were repeated, that many would blame them as a whole again. Ever since that initial wound the following actions are cuts that dig a little deeper. People reinforce their positions, such actions only contribute.

Which is why there has to be a counter action. A public effort that involves a building of trust. This cannot just go on behind the scenes. The outreach must be no less known than September 11th. Do we have any such programs? I do not know of them, do you?

What the American public knows of Islam is September 11th. Of foreign imagery where violence and threats are common against us. Of two wars where Muslims are killing our soldiers. That is our common knowledge. That will not secure peace. The public image must be changed and it begins at home. It requires both sides.

 

[Craig234]

Second, your point seems to sound a lot like Craig and Democrats which I must warn you. This focus on our tolerance, on what we must do. Yes, we must do our part, though I fear what you're missing if this were only about us and you left Islam out entirely.

Tolerance is important, but their part is no less than ours.

I don't think you are intentionally misrepresenting my position, but you are.

I'll try make a point this way.

Please name three things 'the Jewish religion' did this year to outreach to the US, specific actions and positions it took to 'defend itself'.

Name three things the Hindus did for outreach to the US public lest we think badly of them.

Name three things even the Catholic Church - who do have a hierarchy with one man representing them and PR - did like those you are asking from Muslims, 'outreach' and positions they publicized and communicated. I doubt almost anyone can do this for even one of these religions.

That's a dangerous double standard and demand - the Muslims are not set up for there to be a 'pope' who runs a PR campaign 'don't taze us for 9/11, Bro'.

And if they somehow cobbled together such an initiative, what it would do is create a target - statements for those who would exploit hate to say aren't true, to nit pick apart, to call them liars and so on. It would make them targets, create an 'obligation' for them to constantly comment on any issue regarding Muslims in a way other religions do not do.

The real problem is with the people and media and demagogues who try to build hate, not with the Muslims not having more PR.

The Muslims do have a role - but they aren't getting the appropriate credit for a lot of what they are doing, which is living peacefully as good citizens in a hostile environment.

We're not that far apart I suspect, but don't put a lot of blame on them over PR. Make it a 'nice thing for there to be more communication' - and recognize that that primarily lies with the non-Muslim public to demand of their media and the media to provide, there are plenty of Muslim leaders who are happy to participate in outreach and communication.