Reexamining abortion

[shadow9d9]

I consider myself pro abortion. I prefer that term to pro choice... Anyhow, it makes sense to me that if you are going to have an abortion, that you should do it within the first few weeks of pregnancy. I know someone that is 18 weeks pregnant now, is showing a decent amount, and is planning to get an abortion. I find myself feeling nauseated by the idea... to me, it is just different to have an abortion within a few weeks when there is nothing there...

Is their situation relevant? In her case, her husband allegedly hit her a few times. She filed a police report and they felt they had enough evidence to arrest him. She fled to her parents, is going to file for divorce, and wants to abort in order to cut all ties to him. Keep in mind that the pregnancy was planned. She also has no job(was planning to stay at home, and honestly, she hated working) and would never imo be able to take care of the baby by herself. She also, imo, has mental issues. She is not a friend of mine, but someone involved in aspects of my life.

Anyhow, I am still pro abortion, but it just doesn't sit well with me in this situation, and after this long of a time. I would fully support an abortion, even at this point, if the fetus had a genetic defect or other major health condition, puts the mother's life in danger, etc. Any thoughts?

 

[cwjerome]

Seems like a rash decision. Someone wanting an abortion at 18+ weeks, without some medical situation involved, probably does have mental issues... or at least an underdeveloped sense of morality. She is thinking me me me, willing to off the growing baby in her to "cut ties," well, there comes a time during the pregnancy where it's just not about you and certain responsibilities and ethical issues come into play. Everyone is always seeking the easiest answer but based on what you've said, I believe she should give it up for adoption or something.

 

[randomrogue]

I don't have a problem with this. Before 14 weeks is pretty normal but 18 weeks is not that big of a stretch.

Why would you want her to keep the baby in her situation? Clearly she wants to cut all ties.

 

[Blackjack200]

Seems like a rash decision. Someone wanting an abortion at 18+ weeks, without some medical situation involved, probably does have mental issues... or at least an underdeveloped sense of morality. She is thinking me me me, willing to off the growing baby in her to "cut ties," well, there comes a time during the pregnancy where it's just not about you and certain responsibilities and ethical issues come into play. Everyone is always seeking the easiest answer but based on what you've said, I believe she should give it up for adoption or something.

No, she is thinking about the kind of life she will have as a single mother, the kind of life the child will have as the child of a single mother and an abusive father, and she's making the right choice.

Some women might want to complete the pregnancy and give the child up for adoption at that point, but I really cannot fault those that don't. I would not want to put my body through all that trauma for that.

 

[TheSiege]

There needs to be a clear distinction, 22 weeks and before is OK, 22 weeks and after and you are stuck with the child. Rape, and incest will be known before 22 weeks. Birth defects and mothers health might not show up until after and needs to be examined on a case by case basis. That's my opinion.

 

[shadow9d9]

Don't get me wrong.. I support the right to do it.. but it just has given me this feeling of nausea over the last few days... after seeing her in person especially...

The father is a psycho, she is unstable herself, she has no money, and she will not be able to take care of the baby herself.. as for adoption.. she might need to get consent of the father, perhaps?

 

[ivwshane]

You have trouble with it because you can physically see a women who has a baby in her and you picture that baby. Congratulations you are human.

I haven't seen the women so for me I can set aside the human emotions and just look at the facts, abusive EX husband who would then never be out of her life (pretty scary if you ask me), no money to properly support a kid, and not emotionally stable to support a kid let alone herself and the added anxiety of having to interact with the father.

As a society without a population issue (meaning we have plenty of people and are not a dying breed) the choice seems easy.

You are the first pro abortion person I know of. I'm pro choice with abortion being the last option.

 

[shadow9d9]

You have trouble with it because you can physically see a women who has a baby in her and you picture that baby. Congratulations you are human.

I haven't seen the women so for me I can set aside the human emotions and just look at the facts, abusive EX husband who would then never be out of her life (pretty scary if you ask me), no money to properly support a kid, and not emotionally stable to support a kid let alone herself and the added anxiety of having to interact with the father.

As a society without a population issue (meaning we have plenty of people and are not a dying breed) the choice seems easy.

You are the first pro abortion person I know of. I'm pro choice with abortion being the last option.

Indeed. I am all for super early on abortions unless it is planned.

It is likely the best choice for her, just feel weird about it.

 

[randomrogue]

You should feel weird about it. Everyone feels weird about it. It's one of the ultimate dilemmas.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Sometimes there is no "good" answer only a "less bad" answer.

Adoption is one "less bad" answer for some people.

Not bringing a child into the world when you know you can't raise it properly is the "less bad" answer for some people.

Bill Clinton once said abortion should be legal and rare. I can agree with that sentiment.

- Offer easy access to contraceptives (pills and condoms) and the morning-after pill. Fully fund Planned Parenthood so they can help women to use contraceptives properly.

- Fund adoption services, so any pregnant woman feels like this is an option for her.

- Offer welfare for child care for those who need it, while emphasizing contraceptive use to prevent more unplanned pregnancies.

Unfortunately, the religious wing of the Republican party fights against contraceptive use, and the fiscal conservatives fight against welfare for children once they are born. I suspect (admittedly without digging for stats) that both of those actions lead to more abortions.

 

[cwjerome]

No, she is thinking about the kind of life she will have as a single mother, the kind of life the child will have as the child of a single mother and an abusive father, and she's making the right choice.

Some women might want to complete the pregnancy and give the child up for adoption at that point, but I really cannot fault those that don't. I would not want to put my body through all that trauma for that.

Yep... easy way out.

When do you suppose this lifestyle choice of hers is no longer available?

 

[Murloc]

it feels weird because it touches you in real life and abortion is never an easy thing.

Abortion after 12 weeks is illegal in most of Europe unless for medical reasons pertaining the mother (psychological problems matter too). I would expand this limit for bad fetus deformations or other problems to a later term since early diagnosis is not always possible.

 

[shadow9d9]

Yep... easy way out.

When do you suppose this lifestyle choice of hers is no longer available?

Would you mind rephrasing that second sentence? I'm having a hard time understanding what you are saying there.

 

[cwjerome]

Would you mind rephrasing that second sentence? I'm having a hard time understanding what you are saying there.

When does the life of the baby override the concerns of single motherhood (if it happens at all)?

 

[randomrogue]

When it's born, gets a job, and starts paying bills.

Alternatively it's a very personal decision and not one that we can make for others.

 

[cwjerome]

When it's born, gets a job, and starts paying bills.

Alternatively it's a very personal decision and not one that we can make for others.

A brave answer... that I find highly disgusting, but I'm not trying to make the decision for anyone. Just wondering when the cut-off for pulling the trigger is for people.

 

[DaveSimmons]

The supreme court answer has some merit - the fetus gains some rights when it can live on its own outside of the womb.

So perhaps society should be able to block abortions at that point if society is willing to deliver the fetus, adopt it and take over its care.

Saying to the mother "you waited too long, it's now your responsibility for the next 18 years" isn't necessarily doing the fetus any favors.

 

[cwjerome]

The supreme court answer has some merit - the fetus gains some rights when it can live on its own outside of the womb.

As someone who have never really entered the abortion debate or taken a strong side one way or the other, I believe this is probably a pretty reasonable compromise. I don't believe a mass of cells 4 weeks old has the same rights as a human being who has been born, but I don't believe a woman should be able to abort the baby at 8 months because she suddenly decides it'll hurt her boyfriend prospects.

Saying to the mother "you waited too long, it's now your responsibility for the next 18 years" isn't necessarily doing the fetus any favors.

Adoption or some sort of relief of parental rights/responsibilities to another person/entity should be an option.

 

[zinfamous]

A brave answer... that I find highly disgusting, but I'm not trying to make the decision for anyone. Just wondering when the cut-off for pulling the trigger is for people.

Not sure what you mean. A baby is, in fact, never a baby until it is born.

 

[zinfamous]

As someone who have never really entered the abortion debate or taken a strong side one way or the other, I believe this is probably a pretty reasonable compromise. I don't believe a mass of cells 4 weeks old has the same rights as a human being who has been born, but I don't believe a woman should be able to abort the baby at 8 months because she suddenly decides it'll hurt her boyfriend prospects.



Adoption or some sort of relief of parental rights/responsibilities to another person/entity should be an option.

I agree with this, but it is not the situation in the OP. The girl in question is not simply concerned about "boyfriend prospects"

 

[cwjerome]

Not sure what you mean. A baby is, in fact, never a baby until it is born.

Semantics. I very much considered my kids babies when they were inside my wife. Went we felt a kick we didn't exclaim "wow, did you feel the fetus!"

Change the term to whatever appropriate term you are comfortable with, I think you know what my question was asking.

 

[cwjerome]

I agree with this, but it is not the situation in the OP. The girl in question is not simply concerned about "boyfriend prospects"

You're right, I was talking a side point brought up by davesimmons. The girl in question was not concerned about that nor was she 8 months pregnant like my example being used to clarify my own position stated. Thanks for clarifying that, I guess

 

[Blackjack200]

There needs to be a clear distinction, 22 weeks and before is OK, 22 weeks and after and you are stuck with the child. Rape, and incest will be known before 22 weeks. Birth defects and mothers health might not show up until after and needs to be examined on a case by case basis. That's my opinion.

There is already a clear distinction: Is it still inside the woman?

You are the first pro abortion person I know of. I'm pro choice with abortion being the last option.

I'm the second then.

 

[randomrogue]

"stuck with the child"

That's almost impossible for me to even say. Forced child birth.

 

[shadow9d9]

I've been reading the thread.. don't think I've disappeared. It looks like she might get the procedure done on Saturday and that it will take 4-5 hours.

As for you, Jerome, I guess 22 weeks is the overriding time amount. I do know that it was not easy for her to find a place that would do it...

In the end, they have to make a time period... it won't be perfect... People who want to have an abortion should really do it almost immediately if they are responsible.. most people are not though...