Red States Vote to Raise Minimum Wage!

[Mai72]

Inequality is increasing at a rapid rate, and it's going to be something that will need to be addressed.

Will the minority control the majority of the wealth, or do we disperse the wealth so everyone has a chance to succeed. Extreme poverty benefits no one, and this is where we are headed. If this continues I expect to see a more dangerous America. A country where people lash out because there is no hope.

Look st South America and Mexico as examples.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I used to think that too. I haven't made minimum wage since I was 16 either.

Today however I've watched as friends who were making 60-80 thousand a year were lowered to 12 bucks an hour. Companies have no problem lowering wages to almost the bare minimum since there simply aren't enough high paying jobs out there for people to switch to. My friends had to suck it up since nobody else would hire them. Luckily in time they got raises but they're still making a fraction of their old salary. As a business owner I understand that lowering overhead in tough economic times means slashing wages but companies today are still making healthy profits. We have gotten so ridiculous that if a company posts a $4b profit we get disappointed and hammer their stock.

Let's look at the number of Americans making minimum wage. I simply have no faith in companies to not pay their employees the least amount possible. They'll say that $2/hr is what is needed to stay competitive with China.

You can't expect everyone out there to be a high skilled worker like you and me but I can vote for higher minimum wages with no problem since CEOs today have no problem making 300-500 times the average worker salary.

Exactly my point just expressed much more eloquently.

 

[Mai72]

Congratulations on pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and improving your station in life.

However, that doesn't change the fact that there are plenty of hard working people working multiple minimum wage jobs just trying to make ends meet. The very notion that people working minimum wage jobs (even multiple ones) are qualifying for government benefits also indicates that we are subsidizing cheap labor for businesses. I don't think it's fair that we're giving a handout to the business owners at the expense of the taxpayers.

But in the context of minimum wage, I wouldn't mind the Federal government setting a minimum and allowing states to decide how much higher (if they want) to set the minimum wage at.

A Fox News analyst even admitted that major corporations were against sending back illegal immigrants, because they rely on them for the cheap labor.

Yet, the average Republican cries that we need to send back illegals. They don't even know that the main Republican donors have another agenda. Guess whose going to win? It's not the voter.

 

[Spungo]

A quick look shows me the youth unemployment rate in the US is increasing and a lot worse then Canada's
Could you show where you are getting your numbers from?

Obama says the economy is getting better, and I trust him. The Bank of Canada wouldn't be suggesting slavery unless the economy were truly awful.

 

[doubledeluxe]

Inequality is increasing at a rapid rate, and it's going to be something that will need to be addressed.

Will the minority control the majority of the wealth, or do we disperse the wealth so everyone has a chance to succeed. Extreme poverty benefits no one, and this is where we are headed. If this continues I expect to see a more dangerous America. A country where people lash out because there is no hope.

Look st South America and Mexico as examples.

I've spent a lot of time in south america. With enough time inequality can lead to terrible crime and safety concerns. The USA tries to combat that with the highest incarceration rates in the world but as we saw in California last night the voters don't want that.

We're already seeing the masses of beggars, homeless, and people who are dropping out of the job market. With enough time we'll get rampant street crime and once all hope is lost we'll get the violent crime.

It's important to tackle the inequality issues NOW.

 

[Mai72]

I've spent a lot of time in south america. With enough time inequality can lead to terrible crime and safety concerns. The USA tries to combat that with the highest incarceration rates in the world but as we saw in California last night the voters don't want that.

We're already seeing the masses of beggars, homeless, and people who are dropping out of the job market. With enough time we'll get rampant street crime and once all hope is lost we'll get the violent crime.

It's important to tackle the inequality issues NOW.

Agreed. Incarnation is only a band aide. We need real and immediate solutions now!

When I was in Thailand I saw a lot of poverty as well. The main difference between SE Asia and South America is violence isn't that bad there. I wonder why? Could it be that the drug laws in SE Asia are very severe? Drug smugglers can easily look at life or even death in Thailand.

Drug laws in SE ASIA:

http://www.thefix.com/content/worst-places-be-caught-drugs?page=all

 

[doubledeluxe]

Thai people have a different culture where shame is a big part if it. Shame a Thai person and watch how violent they get. Regardless street crime us not as prevalent there. I've spent months in Thailand and was never afraid to take my camera, phone, and laptop with me. In south america you can't do that.

 

[Spungo]

Thai people have a different culture where shame is a big part if it. Shame a Thai person and watch how violent they get. Regardless street crime us not as prevalent there. I've spent months in Thailand and was never afraid to take my camera, phone, and laptop with me. In south america you can't do that.

In regular America you can't do that. Shame? What's that?

 

[doubledeluxe]

What? What is regular America?

 

[glenn1]

I've spent a lot of time in south america. With enough time inequality can lead to terrible crime and safety concerns. The USA tries to combat that with the highest incarceration rates in the world but as we saw in California last night the voters don't want that.

We're already seeing the masses of beggars, homeless, and people who are dropping out of the job market. With enough time we'll get rampant street crime and once all hope is lost we'll get the violent crime.

It's important to tackle the inequality issues NOW.

You keep on pretending that "inequality is bad" is some sort of self-obvious truism when it's anything but. If you're a reasonably well-off suburbanite and GOP voter, why do you care if some inner city gang bangers shoot and kill each other? Or waves of homeless decide to take over the local city park? Or even if rampaging mobs lynch urban yuppies by the thousands and turn their lofts and brownstones into proletariat housing? Heck, inequality is the natural result of a properly functioning meritocracy at work and can itself be a moral outcome in a fairly run system.

 

[doubledeluxe]

Are you joking?

 

[hal2kilo]

Are you joking?

It's Glenn1, so no he's not.

 

[Oldgamer]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102153073

This is one victory Democrats can be proud of! Republicans were against raising the minimum wage, yet it passed in Republican controlled states.

Can Republicans explain why their own people voted for an agenda that was purely Democratic?

Washington, and San Fran just approved big min wage hikes! More states are pursuing this also. Good for them!

 

[Zaap]

Deciding what minimum wage should be is a state/local issue, not a stupid R vs. D issue.

People and their dumb team cheerleading.

 

[cabri]

Washington, and San Fran just approved big min wage hikes! More states are pursuing this also. Good for them!

It will be interesting to see what the result will be on the small and Mom/Pop businesses.

Will prices go up or employment drop?

Minimum wage has much less effect on the large corporations but those are the ones that are being used as an example.

 

[doubledeluxe]

It will be interesting to see what the result will be on the small and Mom/Pop businesses.

Will prices go up or employment drop?

Minimum wage has much less effect on the large corporations but those are the ones that are being used as an example.

As a small business owner in CA I never paid minimum wage. Even for the most basic manual labor I might start them there and then quickly raise them to $12/hr after a month of seeing if they can push a broom or not. It pays for itself since my turnover was 0%. I have better things to do with my time than have a revolving door of employees and those few extra dollars really do translate to a better employee. They know you give a shit about them.

Quite frankly if you own a business and your company can´t afford to pay an extra couple bucks an hour then your business model is flawed or you´re just an asshole.

$15/hr is not that big a deal. Compared to $9/hr you´re talking about a difference of a couple hundred dollars a month. A business should not be working on such razor thin margins that a few hundred dollars a month per employee will put them in the red.

 

[Mai72]

As a small business owner in CA I never paid minimum wage. Even for the most basic manual labor I might start them there and then quickly raise them to $12/hr after a month of seeing if they can push a broom or not. It pays for itself since my turnover was 0%. I have better things to do with my time than have a revolving door of employees and those few extra dollars really do translate to a better employee. They know you give a shit about them.

Quite frankly if you own a business and your company can´t afford to pay an extra couple bucks an hour then your business model is flawed or you´re just an asshole.

$15/hr is not that big a deal. Compared to $9/hr you´re talking about a difference of a couple hundred dollars a month. A business should not be working on such razor thin margins that a few hundred dollars a month per employee will put them in the red.

Yep, and you get a better worker.

 

[smackababy]

As a small business owner in CA I never paid minimum wage. Even for the most basic manual labor I might start them there and then quickly raise them to $12/hr after a month of seeing if they can push a broom or not. It pays for itself since my turnover was 0%. I have better things to do with my time than have a revolving door of employees and those few extra dollars really do translate to a better employee. They know you give a shit about them.

Quite frankly if you own a business and your company can´t afford to pay an extra couple bucks an hour then your business model is flawed or you´re just an asshole.

$15/hr is not that big a deal. Compared to $9/hr you´re talking about a difference of a couple hundred dollars a month. A business should not be working on such razor thin margins that a few hundred dollars a month per employee will put them in the red.

You say $9 to $15 isn't a big jump, except in most places in the country it is lower than that. A double ($7.50 to $15) doubles your costs of employment across the board for all minimum wage employers. Can your business survive doing that? I'm sure some can, but how about businesses that aren't doing well? And, what if prices DO raise? Those people delivering stuff to your business also get paid more now, so your costs go up with theirs.

A business might be able to afford to generate less profit, but why should they? Apple COULD sell their iPhone for $300 off contract and make less profit. Why should they? If their costs go up, rather than decrease profits, a business will raise their prices to compensate. And usually, they raise it just enough they don't lose enough customers for it to effect them.

 

[werepossum]

Because federalism? I know it might shock and amaze some but things like this are generally better when done at the lowest level since it will reflect local conditions far better than a one size fits all mandate centrally issued by Washington.

+1

Are you trying to imply that the cost of living can vary greatly based on the geographic region of the United States and that a livable wage in say California is going to be incredibly high in say Texas? What kind of lunacy is this? We need one federal government to mandate everything for the entire 316 million citizens in the US in all 3.7 million square miles exactly alike!

+1

Same sentiment - but everything's better with sarcasm!

OP, I'm surprised you didn't start a thread about the first black female Republican voted to the Senate. I mean, c'mon, you obviously know how Republicans think, so how the heck did they vote in a black woman?

lol Another great win for the Democrats who, um, attempted to defeat her.

 

[doubledeluxe]

All can. If you have a proper business model.

Starting a business is an incredible amount of work and has a lot of risk. Nobody does it unless the business is going to generate hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. So paying some extra wages is not that big a deal. 5 employees going from $7 to $15 per hour would cost you an extra $100,000 or so depending on insurance. Odds are if you have 5 employees you´re a big enough company to make $500,000 a year.

If you open up a hair salon where your goal is to pay people $7/hr so that you can make $30,000 a year after expenses then you´re doing it wrong. You'd be better off working for someone else who knows how to run a real company. Haircuts aren´t meant to cost $9/hr so that we can have people making so little that they need welfare to survive. If your hair salon was netting you $30,000 then maybe these minimum wage increases will necessetate more expensive hair cuts. So be it. If you want a $9 haircut buy a flowbee.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

As a small business owner in CA I never paid minimum wage. Even for the most basic manual labor I might start them there and then quickly raise them to $12/hr after a month of seeing if they can push a broom or not. It pays for itself since my turnover was 0%. I have better things to do with my time than have a revolving door of employees and those few extra dollars really do translate to a better employee. They know you give a shit about them.

Quite frankly if you own a business and your company can´t afford to pay an extra couple bucks an hour then your business model is flawed or you´re just an asshole.

$15/hr is not that big a deal. Compared to $9/hr you´re talking about a difference of a couple hundred dollars a month. A business should not be working on such razor thin margins that a few hundred dollars a month per employee will put them in the red.

I would agree with most of that except that there are many low margin businesses that exist. Grocery biz is notoriously low margin and pretty labor dependent at the store level. That biz is a big min wage(ish) payer and artificially bumping all wages would cripple such a store. I do agree however that paying well does reduce turnover and that owners/managers should do what they can to take care of their workers.

 

[spacejamz]

As a small business owner in CA I never paid minimum wage. Even for the most basic manual labor I might start them there and then quickly raise them to $12/hr after a month of seeing if they can push a broom or not. It pays for itself since my turnover was 0%. I have better things to do with my time than have a revolving door of employees and those few extra dollars really do translate to a better employee. They know you give a shit about them.

Quite frankly if you own a business and your company can´t afford to pay an extra couple bucks an hour then your business model is flawed or you´re just an asshole.

$15/hr is not that big a deal. Compared to $9/hr you´re talking about a difference of a couple hundred dollars a month. A business should not be working on such razor thin margins that a few hundred dollars a month per employee will put them in the red.

Out of curiosity, what is the ratio of workers you keep versus those you don't?

 

[Mai72]

All can. If you have a proper business model.

Starting a business is an incredible amount of work and has a lot of risk. Nobody does it unless the business is going to generate hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. So paying some extra wages is not that big a deal. 5 employees going from $7 to $15 per hour would cost you an extra $100,000 or so depending on insurance. Odds are if you have 5 employees you´re a big enough company to make $500,000 a year.

If you open up a hair salon where your goal is to pay people $7/hr so that you can make $30,000 a year after expenses then you´re doing it wrong. You'd be better off working for someone else who knows how to run a real company. Haircuts aren´t meant to cost $9/hr so that we can have people making so little that they need welfare to survive. If your hair salon was netting you $30,000 then maybe these minimum wage increases will necessetate more expensive hair cuts. So be it. If you want a $9 haircut buy a flowbee.

What are you smoking? There are a lot of small businesses that don't even come close to generating a couple hundred thousand a year. The businesses that do generate $200k or more a year didn't do it overnight. It takes years and plenty of man hours. It's highly unlikely that you're going to open a small store and be an overnight success. It takes a long time, and this along with many other reasons is why most businesses fail.

 

[doubledeluxe]

What are you smoking? There are a lot of small businesses that don't even come close to generating a couple hundred thousand a year. The businesses that do generate $200k or more a year didn't do it overnight. It takes years and plenty of man hours. It's highly unlikely that you're going to open a small store and be an overnight success. It takes a long time, and this along with many other reasons is why most businesses fail.

We talking profit or revenue? I also have to admit that I don't have a universal rule for all businesses. If you have a labor intensive business like a low margin super market you will have to raise prices. No way around it. People want their customer service. So if you live in a place with $15/hr minimum wage you´ll have to pay more than $10 for a steak dinner at Applebees and your haircut isn´t going to cost $9 anymore. From my point of view though with small businesses it makes very little sense to go and start a business making $100,000 a year risking everything with my house on colateral and working all those hours when I can work for another company making that kind of money. Starting a business means I'm shooting much higher. Starting a business in a 3rd world country with a 8% tax liability still has a goal of 6 figures.

If you generate $200,000 in profit for yourself then that's great and sucking up a $100,000 in extra expendatures sucks. However you have to ask yourself why you need so much labor to generate that profit. I think the example above with supermarkets is a good example, just like with a hair salon, where costs will need to rise.

If I had to run a 6 man company to make $200,000 a year then I would seriously look at my margins and what´s going on. At some point you either have to raise your costs or start thinking about working for someone else. At that profit a bad year might wreck you. A couple bad deals. A lawsuit. Even if you win your lawyer fees will eat all your money. You´re out of business really fast. Like I said, with the amount of risk you need a lot of reward.

This is not my personal choice either. I wish that lots of mom and pop stores still existed but the days of working on these tiny margins are kinda over in most industries. Huge companies come in and work on economies of scale.

 

[Mai72]

We talking profit or revenue? I also have to admit that I don't have a universal rule for all businesses. If you have a labor intensive business like a low margin super market you will have to raise prices. No way around it. People want their customer service. So if you live in a place with $15/hr minimum wage you´ll have to pay more than $10 for a steak dinner at Applebees and your haircut isn´t going to cost $9 anymore. From my point of view though with small businesses it makes very little sense to go and start a business making $100,000 a year risking everything with my house on colateral and working all those hours when I can work for another company making that kind of money. Starting a business means I'm shooting much higher. Starting a business in a 3rd world country with a 8% tax liability still has a goal of 6 figures.

If you generate $200,000 in profit for yourself then that's great and sucking up a $100,000 in extra expendatures sucks. However you have to ask yourself why you need so much labor to generate that profit. I think the example above with supermarkets is a good example, just like with a hair salon, where costs will need to rise.

If I had to run a 6 man company to make $200,000 a year then I would seriously look at my margins and what´s going on. At some point you either have to raise your costs or start thinking about working for someone else. At that profit a bad year might wreck you. A couple bad deals. A lawsuit. Even if you win your lawyer fees will eat all your money. You´re out of business really fast. Like I said, with the amount of risk you need a lot of reward.

This is not my personal choice either. I wish that lots of mom and pop stores still existed but the days of working on these tiny margins are kinda over in most industries. Huge companies come in and work on economies of scale.

Good points.

I guess I was thinking about my mother's cafe that she had for twelve years. She used mostly high end products that ate into her profits. Her business generated most of the profits in the summer. This is at the shore in New Jersey, so you either make it in the summer or you go broke. They closed in early November and opened late April. The fall/spring months were nothing to write home about. After expenses she was lucky to take home $50k as profit. It was good for her. My dad was a contractor so they had additional income throughout the year.