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Red Skelton and the pledge of allegiance

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dainthomas said:
I'll feel free to not say it at all since it's jingoistic and weird.
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It's up to the individual. Not all jingoism and propaganda is bad. Sometimes people need a crutch to overcome their distaste for necessary evils. Anyone who has experienced the horrors of war would never willingly put themselves or anyone they cared about in that situation again. Yet, we never seem to be able to avoid going to war. Only electing those who have had combat experience might lessen the number of wars but, based on my own experience, I doubt it.
 
Why did Iran attack the oil tankers? Because they wanted to.
Why did Timothy McVeigh bomb Oklahoma city? Because he wanted to.
This is what some people do.
 
ctbaars said:
Why did Iran attack the oil tankers? Because they wanted to.
Why did Timothy McVeigh bomb Oklahoma city? Because he wanted to.
This is what some people do.
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So you don't care to examine any of the reasons WHY they might do these things? You think they just woke up one morning and decided to do these random acts?
 
soulcougher73 said:
So you don't care to examine any of the reasons WHY they might do these things? You think they just woke up one morning and decided to do these random acts?
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a. Yes. : b. Vast majority No. : People think that violence is a solution. Do you agree with my two answers?
 
MagnusTheBrewer said:
And yet, I haven't attempted to force MY view on anyone.
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You're literally arguing that people should just STFU about the god bit because well like just consider themselves god in that case. And you're actively supporting pushing this language onto all Americans. If you think you're not pushing your view on anyone then you're just straight up lying out of your ass or so delusional that you've lost all touch with reality.

All you're doing is trying to use bastardized moronic logic to twist you absolutely forcing others to use the wording you want and claim you're being the most inclusive of all.

JEDIYoda said:
No one is trying to spread a God message! That's what I don`t understand about those who go off whenever God is mentioned! They believe they have a right to call those of us who might mention God, assholes and other derogatory names as if we don`t respect your right to deny there is a God oe to be all up in arms when God is mentioned!

yet if we flip that you then the same doesn`t work??
Because respect goes both ways nad if we carry this further there are many people who and I am one of them who believes that my beliefs are personal as are your beliefs and I am not going to judge you for your desire to avoid any ,mention of the name of God!


If you have an issue with the phrase - Under God then perhaps you should take it up with your representative or your congressperson….in other words take it up with somebody who can do something about it!!

As for me, I can take it or leave it!
I find it amusing that so many people get all twisted when God is mentioned!
Thety want others to respect their right to not have god throw in their face, yet there is no respect coming the other way...hmmmm
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Yeah, no one is trying to spread the god message, that's why they put under god in government things. Its totally to be more inclusive of everyone though! What is it about god that turns off the basic logic parts of your brains?

Uh, no one would be going off if you'd take your own advice and STFU about it. I mean, who made the fucking thread praising that and then saying that they weren't pushing their shit onto others? FYI, it doesn't matter if its god, or your favorite taco place, you saying that its great and everyone should agree is literally you pushing your view onto others. You're acting like Turmp where you do something and then when called on it started whining that you're being picked on. You're the one that started it.

That you think you get to condemn others (which sorry but no matter how much you claim you aren't you absolutely are, unless you just think people have no understanding of your religions where you literally preach that people that don't believe in your God will be condemned to hell) first but then get to play the victim when people call that out is absolutely absurd and just shows how the broken logic that lead to your god belief in the first place absolutely does do exactly what you claim doesn't happen.

You do realize that literally cannot be the case, right? I've had your god shit thrown in my face my entire life. You don't get to go "well it wasn't me personally!!!" and act like your religion hasn't been doing that shit for millennia. It was happening before I was even fucking born so there's no way I could have possibly started pushing anti-god sentiment before you Judeo Christian cultists started pushing your shit on others.

First, that won't fix the issue because dumbshits like you will whine that people that don't say that aren't "real Americans" or various other garbage shit (like you're literally trying to frame in this thread). You have made it so that non-religious people cannot get treated equally (unless they don't make it known that they're not religious, because no matter how legal it is, there's a glut of religious people like you that look down on non-religious people, and even if you don't personally do that your religions absolutely do push that unless you're claiming you're some singular person sect of them in which case you're just trying to absolve yourself of the bad parts of your religion so you can pretend you're not culpable in them). Hell, your religion literally got states to pass laws trying to make it illegal to condemn the Israeli government's actions. But yes, its all the people taking issue with you clowns wanting everyone to accept your religious language everywhere that's the real problem here. I don't need to as I don't have to even say the damn pledge of allegiance in any form because thankfully our government already said so, because they knew if they didn't that you religious people would absolutely force it onto people (which you fucking went ahead and did anyway). In fact it was literally you religious assholes that made it a thing so that someone had to defend their right to not have to say either under god or the pledge itself because you assholes were trying to force people to as a Nationalistic test. But again, that will cause me problems because again you religious assholes have made it societal issue to not believe your bullshit. Seriously, go testify in a court and when asked to swear in on the bible and answer if I swear (to your fucking god) to tell the truth, and instead go "I don't believe in god" the jury will almost certainly view that as a huge negative even though it has fuck all to do with anything.

That last line just highlights how fucking moronic you have chosen to be. "I think its hilarious that when we mention god that people get all bent out of shape, gee why does that get us disrespect" because you're ignoring that literally without you starting it, there would be nothing coming from the other way in regards to this. Which is always the case, that's where you're just plain being willfully stupid, there's no chicken and egg debate, Christians are the ones that forced their shit onto other people first when it comes to religious issues in America. And I'm assuming you're Jewish, which you probably know that there's areas in the US where that would cause problems for you despite it literally being legally not supposed to be the case. Go down South though and swear on the Hebrew Bible and see how that goes over in rural podunk Alabama or Mississippi. Or watch some Muslim swear to Allah with their hand on the Quran and see how that goes over in lots of areas.
 
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MagnusTheBrewer said:
Your argument doesn't even make sense to you! What would happen is you'd be up in arms over the FSM then. You are all about exclusion while some of us are about respect and inclusion. The discussion is about a symbol of our nation's unity not, about intolerance of religion.
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No see that's where our argument doesn't make sense to you. Because if there were assholes demanding the same shit you are for their flying spaghetti monster god I'd be just as much telling them to fuck off (if they were being serious, which they aren't, you do know the FSM was literally made to highlight the absurdity of trying to get people to believe in some imaginary being, right?).

Yeah, sorry you saying that a bunch of times doesn't magically make it true. You're literally arguing that we need to just accept your god language. That's literally not being inclusive. You're acting like Turmp. Its the exact same behavior.

And that's another issue being highlighted. You don't have to pledge allegiance to be a good member of your country or society. And pledging fealty doesn't make you a good American. There's plenty of Nationalistic assholes that pledge to America, that are doing significant harm to America. The words don't mean a goddamned thing, its the actions. Just like your "I'm being inclusive" words are belied by your actions, so too is any of this type of nonsense.

Lastly, that's exactly the issue. You claim its not about that, but it absolutely is. Because other people like you intentionally have tried to make the two the same thing. There are a lot of people that think if you're not a devout Christian (doesn't matter if you rape little boys and/or girls either, that's a-ok with your religion apparently), you're not a True American. And that's the danger inherent to propaganda and jingoism, it can easily be twisted to worse evils. It blinded you people to the horrible things your religions still actively do, and you pushing this American Pride is doing the same thing for the evils that America is perpetrating.
 
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MagnusTheBrewer said:
It's up to the individual. Not all jingoism and propaganda is bad. Sometimes people need a crutch to overcome their distaste for necessary evils. Anyone who has experienced the horrors of war would never willingly put themselves or anyone they cared about in that situation again. Yet, we never seem to be able to avoid going to war. Only electing those who have had combat experience might lessen the number of wars but, based on my own experience, I doubt it.
Click to expand...

It has been necessary to combat worse evils (you do realize that literally means it too is bad, right?), but its still not good and is directly responsible for the issues our country has these days. There are people still raging about having to treat black people as equals. And its hardly some super tiny fraction of American society that feels that way. Hell, even though we wouldn't have won our Independence without them, lots of Americans view the French quite negatively (but view the British positively, go figure on that...) due to bizarre propaganda.

So now we're getting somewhere. You need a crutch to deal with how your religion has committed insane evils throughout history. I'll disagree on those being necessary, but now we start to see why you can't accept people questioning your religious beliefs.
 
darkswordsman17 said:
It has been necessary to combat worse evils (you do realize that literally means it too is bad, right?), but its still not good and is directly responsible for the issues our country has these days. There are people still raging about having to treat black people as equals. And its hardly some super tiny fraction of American society that feels that way. Hell, even though we wouldn't have won our Independence without them, lots of Americans view the French quite negatively (but view the British positively, go figure on that...) due to bizarre propaganda.

So now we're getting somewhere. You need a crutch to deal with how your religion has committed insane evils throughout history. I'll disagree on those being necessary, but now we start to see why you can't accept people questioning your religious beliefs.
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You continue to blame religion and the mere mention of God for the failings of the individual. Tell me what you think should be done to combat the actual causes of racism? And, how it relates to the pledge of allegiance.
 
darkswordsman17 said:
You're literally arguing that people should just STFU about the god bit because well like just consider themselves god in that case. And you're actively supporting pushing this language onto all Americans. If you think you're not pushing your view on anyone then you're just straight up lying out of your ass or so delusional that you've lost all touch with reality.

All you're doing is trying to use bastardized moronic logic to twist you absolutely forcing others to use the wording you want and claim you're being the most inclusive of all.



Yeah, no one is trying to spread the god message, that's why they put under god in government things. Its totally to be more inclusive of everyone though! What is it about god that turns off the basic logic parts of your brains?

Uh, no one would be going off if you'd take your own advice and STFU about it. I mean, who made the fucking thread praising that and then saying that they weren't pushing their shit onto others? FYI, it doesn't matter if its god, or your favorite taco place, you saying that its great and everyone should agree is literally you pushing your view onto others. You're acting like Turmp where you do something and then when called on it started whining that you're being picked on. You're the one that started it.

That you think you get to condemn others (which sorry but no matter how much you claim you aren't you absolutely are, unless you just think people have no understanding of your religions where you literally preach that people that don't believe in your God will be condemned to hell) first but then get to play the victim when people call that out is absolutely absurd and just shows how the broken logic that lead to your god belief in the first place absolutely does do exactly what you claim doesn't happen.

You do realize that literally cannot be the case, right? I've had your god shit thrown in my face my entire life. You don't get to go "well it wasn't me personally!!!" and act like your religion hasn't been doing that shit for millennia. It was happening before I was even fucking born so there's no way I could have possibly started pushing anti-god sentiment before you Judeo Christian cultists started pushing your shit on others.

First, that won't fix the issue because dumbshits like you will whine that people that don't say that aren't "real Americans" or various other garbage shit (like you're literally trying to frame in this thread). You have made it so that non-religious people cannot get treated equally (unless they don't make it known that they're not religious, because no matter how legal it is, there's a glut of religious people like you that look down on non-religious people, and even if you don't personally do that your religions absolutely do push that unless you're claiming you're some singular person sect of them in which case you're just trying to absolve yourself of the bad parts of your religion so you can pretend you're not culpable in them). Hell, your religion literally got states to pass laws trying to make it illegal to condemn the Israeli government's actions. But yes, its all the people taking issue with you clowns wanting everyone to accept your religious language everywhere that's the real problem here. I don't need to as I don't have to even say the damn pledge of allegiance in any form because thankfully our government already said so, because they knew if they didn't that you religious people would absolutely force it onto people (which you fucking went ahead and did anyway). In fact it was literally you religious assholes that made it a thing so that someone had to defend their right to not have to say either under god or the pledge itself because you assholes were trying to force people to as a Nationalistic test. But again, that will cause me problems because again you religious assholes have made it societal issue to not believe your bullshit. Seriously, go testify in a court and when asked to swear in on the bible and answer if I swear (to your fucking god) to tell the truth, and instead go "I don't believe in god" the jury will almost certainly view that as a huge negative even though it has fuck all to do with anything.

That last line just highlights how fucking moronic you have chosen to be. "I think its hilarious that when we mention god that people get all bent out of shape, gee why does that get us disrespect" because you're ignoring that literally without you starting it, there would be nothing coming from the other way in regards to this. Which is always the case, that's where you're just plain being willfully stupid, there's no chicken and egg debate, Christians are the ones that forced their shit onto other people first when it comes to religious issues in America. And I'm assuming you're Jewish, which you probably know that there's areas in the US where that would cause problems for you despite it literally being legally not supposed to be the case. Go down South though and swear on the Hebrew Bible and see how that goes over in rural podunk Alabama or Mississippi. Or watch some Muslim swear to Allah with their hand on the Quran and see how that goes over in lots of areas.
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You do realize that the constution does not say "freedom from religion"?" It says Freedom of religion....
You do know the difference?
Also in the Declaration of Independence it mentions God 4 different times........go figure...so we throw away the Declaration of Independence?
 
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JEDIYoda said:
You do realize that the constution does not say "freedom from religion"?" It says Freedom of religion....
You do know the difference?
Also in the Declaration of Independence it mentions God 4 different times........go figure...so we throw away the Declaration of Independence?
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It doesn’t even say those exact words either. You may want to brush up on what one of the founding fathers and president thought about the 1st amendment. And the deceleration is not laws of governance either.

I swear I feel like I’m trying to debate 3rd graders. Your knowledge is so lacking for an adult, it’s pathetic.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States
 
MagnusTheBrewer said:
Red Skelton was a truly good man who reminded us all of our humanity.
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Red Skelton was the personification of humor. He'd do standup, or what seemed like it, and he seemed to be busting a gut not seizing up in laughter at his own jokes. Just a wonderful guy.
 
soulcougher73 said:
It doesn’t even say those exact words either. You may want to brush up on what one of the founding fathers and president thought about the 1st amendment. And the deceleration is not laws of governance either.

I swear I feel like I’m trying to debate 3rd graders. Your knowledge is so lacking for an adult, it’s pathetic.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States
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Your have no clue -- For certain it does not say -- freedom from religion!!
The first amendment of the U. S. Constitution says that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” Ever since the Bill of Rights was ratified, Americans have enjoyed religious freedom.
 
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