Red Lobster getting pinched over gift card fees

mzkhadir

Diamond Member
Mar 6, 2003
9,509
1
76
RED LOBSTER PINCHED OVER GIFT CARD FEES

Finally, somebody is doing something about those crazy gift card "dormancy" fees. That someone in particular is the Federal Trade Commission, which recently accused Red Lobster restaurants of misleading consumers in the way these fees are charged.

In case you?ve never received a gift card, or you?ve never turned one over and pulled out a magnifying glass, dormancy fees slowly drain the value of gift cards when they?re not used. In Red Lobster?s case, after 24 months, $1.50 is slowly ticked off the card for each month it?s not spent.

So here?s what can happen. A $25 Red Lobster gift card purchased on January 1, 2004 and never used was only worth $23.40 on Jan. 1 2006. And by Jan. 1, 2007, that card will only be worth $7. By spring, it's a worthless piece of plastic.

The FTC isn't actually accusing Red Lobster and its parent Darden Restaurants Ltd. of being crazy, or attacking dormancy fees directly. Instead, the FTC says Red Lobster customers weren't told clearly about the fees.

The FTC doesn?t disclose information about ongoing investigations, but Darden revealed the investigation in its recent annual report. Darden said FTC attorneys had found that the company engaged in "unfair and deceptive trade practices," and asked for $30 million in reparations. The company has until the end of August to consider the settlement offer.

Darden declined my request for an interview, but spokesman Jim DeSimone told the Orlando Sentinel last week that the company did adequately disclose gift card fees.

?In every case since we've had the gift-card program, we have notified consumers of the potential for maintenance fees at least once . . . and often multiple times," DeSimone told the newspaper.

I disagree. Today I went to Red Lobster's Web site to order a gift card and see how clear the dormancy fee disclosure is. The answer: Not at all.

Clicking on "gift card" from the site?s home page brings visitors to a page that allows consumers to pick the number of cards they want, and their value, and add them to a shopping cart. Nothing about dormancy fees there.

That?s not to say there isn?t small print on the order page. But these statements don't protect consumers, they protect the company. Like this: "Orders placed after 3:00 PM Mountain Time or on weekends usually ship the next business day."

Or this, clearly designed to prevent fraud: "There is a $500.00 maximum per order. You may not purchase more than $500.00 per credit card in a 30-day period. Orders over $200.00 must be shipped to the billing address."

But nowhere on that page is there notice of a $1.50 monthly fee. And it's easy to complete your purchase without ever receiving such notice. Only those consumers savvy (or curious) enough to scroll to the bottom of the page will find the link that hints at other, potentially damaging, details.

"Important: Gift Card Terms and Conditions" it says, in a lovely blue pastel color. It?s easy to miss, as it?s overshadowed by the words ?Your Shopping Cart is Currently Empty,? which are larger, and shine in bright red.

Still, an industrious visitor who clicks on ?Gift Cards and Conditions? brings up a page that's topped by one word in red: "Legalese." Nothing says "read me" like "Legalese."

Perhaps use of the word is self-effacing fun. After all, Wikipedia, the Internet's deciding vote in conventional wisdom, defines legalese as a pejorative term "for legal writing that is difficult for non-lawyers to understand."

But only in this legalese will you see mention of the $1.50 fee, in a part of the site the company practically tells you to skip because it?s going too be to hard understand.

"If you don't use your card for a 24-month period, a $1.50 monthly maintenance fee will be deducted from the balance until you use it again," it says. Actually, I think that?s pretty easy to understand. It?s just hard to find.

Gail Hillebrand, a staff attorney at Consumers Union, said it was encouraging that the FTC had taken notice of Red Lobster's fees, and its alleged inadequate disclosures. But fee disclosure is really only part of this story. Gift cards are a huge business now -- $35 billion in gift cards were sold last year, with the business expected to swell to $76 billion this year. And since the beginning, nickel-and-dime fees on the card have been a secret source of extra revenue for the companies--and an incredible irritant for consumers. Each year, the Montgomery County of Maryland?s Office of Consumer Protection performs an excellent survey of gift card fees. The survey is excellent reading.

In last year?s study, published in November, the agency concluded the Red Lobster was one of six major retailers that didn?t adequately disclose dormancy fees. The others were Blockbuster, KB Toys, Kmart, Macy?s, and Toys ?R? Us.

But while we're on the subject, retailer fees pale in comparison to fees assessed on bank-issued, general-purpose gift cards. Some of those start with a $10 fee, then layer in transaction fees, monthly fees, ATM withdrawal fees, and so on. It?s easy to concoct a scenario where a $25 present costs you $35 and the recipient only gets to spend $15.

As I?ve said before in this space, cash really is an acceptable gift! But if you must give plastic, support those companies that don?t reach out and take money from your gift recipient. And always ask a question like this:

?How much is my $25 gift card worth? And how much will it be worth in two years??

http://redtape.msnbc.com/2006/08/red_lobster_gif.html#posts
 

I Saw OJ

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2004
4,923
2
76
If you dont use a gift card in 2 and a half years you're problably not gonna ever use it.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Originally posted by: I Saw OJ
If you dont use a gift card in 2 and a half years you're problably not gonna ever use it.

while true. i don't think a company should be able to just take it away with "Fee's".
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
Originally posted by: waggy
Originally posted by: I Saw OJ
If you dont use a gift card in 2 and a half years you're problably not gonna ever use it.

while true. i don't think a company should be able to just take it away with "Fee's".

yea, agree with both, who the hell keeps a gift card for 2 years? but also yea thats kinda not cool of them
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,974
4,584
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1) Gift certificates have always had expiration dates (usually within 1 year), why can't gift cards?

2) I've gotten many of the Red Lobster gift cards (Discover Card gives you more than 1% back if you get it in the form of gift cards). Each time they clearly state in multiple places about the fee. Heck, I've got a card right here in my wallet and it says right there on the back about the monthly fee after 2 years.

3) If you won't eat at Red Lobster, Olive Garden, Bahama Breeze, or Smokey Bones (the card works at any of those restaurants) in the next 2 years you aren't likely to ever use it.

4) Gift cards are stupid. If you want to give a gift, give cash. Cash never has maintenance fees, may even earn interest, and can be used anywhere or anytime.

5) Silly tax laws make the companies pay income tax in the year the gift card is used, not when it is purchased. That is, if you give them $100 today it isn't actually $100 income until the day you use the card which could be 100 years from now. So there is a lot of extra accountant overhead keeping track of when it is bought/used to get the income reported in the correct year. Why can't a company make up this added expense in the form of fees? Or at least, get rid of this silly tax law.
 

lokiju

Lifer
May 29, 2003
18,526
5
0
Of course the companies do this as a means of making free money since a certain percentage of people will not use those gift cards before their fees kick in.

 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,844
1,049
126
<-- wonders exactly how many people were affected by the 2-years thing.
 

QED

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2005
3,428
3
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Next thing you know people will be complaining about credit card companies charging interest for loaning them money.

"Why should I have to pay extra to borrow money? Wahhhhhh!"
 

Toasthead

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2001
6,621
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* Not applicaple in CA where gift cards are considered cash and NEVER expire.

 

Tsaico

Platinum Member
Oct 21, 2000
2,669
0
0
Originally posted by: Toasthead
* Not applicaple in CA where gift cards are considered cash and NEVER expire.

Which create a accounting nightmare. I run the IT side of the stupid gift cards, and while they are great for cash flow, they are horrible to keep track of. When we "collect the money" for the gift card, it must now sit in a bank account (though it is collecting intrest) until used. So while we can always use the intrest as income, the other money is tied up an unusable until the gift card comes back, which as you guys know, is nearly a quarter of them never see the light of day again...

So until recently, the money was losing value, since inflation was greater then intrest for the last couple of years. We can't invest it, because the money needs to stay liquid and trasferrable in a day's notice in case it is needed to purchase the services the hotel guest wants. I think exipration dates should be fine for these stupid things, if you don't use them if you don't use them in a couple of years, they shouldn't be worth anything. I hate gift cards.
 

49erinnc

Platinum Member
Feb 10, 2004
2,095
0
0
I'm too poor to sit on gift cards. If I receive a gift card to a restaurant, I'm likely using it within a month. I don't really see the point in sitting on on for more than 3 months unless you're physically ill.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Originally posted by: QED
Next thing you know people will be complaining about credit card companies charging interest for loaning them money.

"Why should I have to pay extra to borrow money? Wahhhhhh!"

if i use the card i expect to be charged interest. IF i do not use the card i do not expect to have a fee for not useing it.
 

chambersc

Diamond Member
Feb 11, 2005
6,247
0
0
Originally posted by: QED
Next thing you know people will be complaining about credit card companies charging interest for loaning them money.

"Why should I have to pay extra to borrow money? Wahhhhhh!"

I know, right.
 

QED

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2005
3,428
3
0
Originally posted by: waggy
Originally posted by: QED
Next thing you know people will be complaining about credit card companies charging interest for loaning them money.

"Why should I have to pay extra to borrow money? Wahhhhhh!"

if i use the card i expect to be charged interest. IF i do not use the card i do not expect to have a fee for not useing it.

When you don't use the gift card, you are still using some of Red Lobster's resources to manage and service that gift card.

It wasn't all the uncommon too long ago for credit card companies to charge annual fees to help recoup the cost of servicing credit accounts. Now, they simply forego the fee but cancel unused accounts. I think Red Lobster is being more reasonable by waiting two years, and only then charging a small montly fee... when they really should have the right to terminate the whole value of the card after some pre-defined and publicly disclosed length of time.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,391
1,780
126
Originally posted by: Tsaico
Originally posted by: Toasthead
* Not applicaple in CA where gift cards are considered cash and NEVER expire.

Which create a accounting nightmare. I run the IT side of the stupid gift cards, and while they are great for cash flow, they are horrible to keep track of. When we "collect the money" for the gift card, it must now sit in a bank account (though it is collecting intrest) until used. So while we can always use the intrest as income, the other money is tied up an unusable until the gift card comes back, which as you guys know, is nearly a quarter of them never see the light of day again...

So until recently, the money was losing value, since inflation was greater then intrest for the last couple of years. We can't invest it, because the money needs to stay liquid and trasferrable in a day's notice in case it is needed to purchase the services the hotel guest wants. I think exipration dates should be fine for these stupid things, if you don't use them if you don't use them in a couple of years, they shouldn't be worth anything. I hate gift cards.
Makes sense. I just hate the side from the consumer... Usually the one who holds the gift card isn't actually the person who purchased it. Who knows, maybe someone decides to regift because they don't want to die of E.Coli like some of the patrons at my local RL did a few years ago. They would have the impression that the value on the card is the full amount stated on the front...instead, they may get stuck with a larger bill if the card has lost part of its value. It's not good business practices...they would be better off charging a GC surcharge at the time of the sale to cover the administrative side...but in all honesty, Cash is a better gift because it's valid at all restaurants and it only loses value with inflation.
 

Demon-Xanth

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
20,551
2
81
Originally posted by: Tsaico
Originally posted by: Toasthead
* Not applicaple in CA where gift cards are considered cash and NEVER expire.

Which create a accounting nightmare. I run the IT side of the stupid gift cards, and while they are great for cash flow, they are horrible to keep track of. When we "collect the money" for the gift card, it must now sit in a bank account (though it is collecting intrest) until used. So while we can always use the intrest as income, the other money is tied up an unusable until the gift card comes back, which as you guys know, is nearly a quarter of them never see the light of day again...

So until recently, the money was losing value, since inflation was greater then intrest for the last couple of years. We can't invest it, because the money needs to stay liquid and trasferrable in a day's notice in case it is needed to purchase the services the hotel guest wants. I think exipration dates should be fine for these stupid things, if you don't use them if you don't use them in a couple of years, they shouldn't be worth anything. I hate gift cards.

However, a fair amount of gift cards are lost or never used up. Also, "the money" already includes the profit margin. If the average markup is 25%, and someone gets a $25 gift card. You might as well call that $5 profit already since the cost of the stuff they're going to get is going to be $20 on your end.
 

BigJ

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
21,330
1
81
I have no sympathy for people that don't take personal responsibility for their actions. Not reading the T&C or contract is no excuse to not be held accountable.

You made your bed, now sleep in it.
 

NissanGurl

Golden Member
Sep 4, 2003
1,111
0
0
I haved used a Gift Card 2+ years after recieving one. I had gotten an Ann Taylor gift card for a high school grad present. I waited a couple of years, lost weight, and then attempted to use the gift card (first part was actually trying to find an Ann Taylor store nearby). The card originally had $250 on it I think. It had been at least 3 years since I had gotten it if I recall correctly. I even warned the lady at the counter (I had them check it before I started shopping). Sure enough it still had it's full value on there. I only spent around $150 of it (woohoo sales!) so I still have money on there. The lady working the counter told me there is no expiration. Also I'm guessing there are no maintainance fees since after 3 years it still had the full original amount. I was completely surprised (I didn't even know how much was on the gift card when I walked into the store).


So yes it is possible for some people to still use a gift card 2 years after recieving one.:eek: If it had been a gift card for a resturant I probably would have just assumed it wasn't good any more and thrown it out.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
167
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
Originally posted by: Scarpozzi
Originally posted by: Tsaico
Originally posted by: Toasthead
* Not applicaple in CA where gift cards are considered cash and NEVER expire.

Which create a accounting nightmare. I run the IT side of the stupid gift cards, and while they are great for cash flow, they are horrible to keep track of. When we "collect the money" for the gift card, it must now sit in a bank account (though it is collecting intrest) until used. So while we can always use the intrest as income, the other money is tied up an unusable until the gift card comes back, which as you guys know, is nearly a quarter of them never see the light of day again...

So until recently, the money was losing value, since inflation was greater then intrest for the last couple of years. We can't invest it, because the money needs to stay liquid and trasferrable in a day's notice in case it is needed to purchase the services the hotel guest wants. I think exipration dates should be fine for these stupid things, if you don't use them if you don't use them in a couple of years, they shouldn't be worth anything. I hate gift cards.
Makes sense. I just hate the side from the consumer... Usually the one who holds the gift card isn't actually the person who purchased it. Who knows, maybe someone decides to regift because they don't want to die of E.Coli like some of the patrons at my local RL did a few years ago. They would have the impression that the value on the card is the full amount stated on the front...instead, they may get stuck with a larger bill if the card has lost part of its value. It's not good business practices...they would be better off charging a GC surcharge at the time of the sale to cover the administrative side...but in all honesty, Cash is a better gift because it's valid at all restaurants and it only loses value with inflation.

No, it doesn't make sense. The company is being handed cash in the present for a possible future purchase. An extreme example might point out the ridiculousness of his argument.

Suppose I purchased a $100 gift card today.
Let's say that Red Lobster gets 2.5% interest when it socks away the $100 into a savings account.

I never use the card. On my deathbed, I realize I have a card that's worth $100. No more, no less, the card doesn't collect interest. So, I put the card in my will to go to my grandchild. 90 years later, he does the same thing.

1000 (One Thousand) years later, my great great great great great... grandchild goes to Red Lobster and uses the card. The card is worth $100. Had Red Lobster kept the original $100 in the bank, it would now be worth $687,424,023,116,963. Is Red Lobster out any money by simply putting the amount paid for the card into a savings account? No. Well, I suppose they're out the cost of the piece of plastic... And, of course, I suppose that there's a minor amount of accounting costs in dealing with it; very minor considering the degree to which computers are used, and how they are all lumped together.

Really, I'd love it if people would come up to me and say, "here's $25. Keep it. Stick it in the bank and keep all the interest it earns. I *might* return to get my $25 back.
 

QED

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2005
3,428
3
0
DrPizza... you are strongly discounting the cost of maintaining and servicing gift cards. It is not exactly "free" to Red Lobster to maintain the IT staff and technology infrastructure to do so.

In my current role I am intergrating a gift card servicing system with a point-of-sale system for a Fortune 500 company--- and let me tell you, what they are spending on this project alone easily dwarfs the $1.25 per month that Red Lobster charges for unused gift cards beyond 2 years.
 

Thraxen

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2001
4,683
1
81
Originally posted by: QED
Next thing you know people will be complaining about credit card companies charging interest for loaning them money.

"Why should I have to pay extra to borrow money? Wahhhhhh!"

Except in this case it's the card issuer being loaned the money.
 

PinmasterJay

Senior member
Jun 12, 2005
649
0
76
I thought this was pretty standard

When I worked at Menards, any form of gift card (including store credit given to people
from no-reciept returns) were deducted I think $1.00 per month each month over 2 years from the issue date
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Originally posted by: Toasthead
* Not applicaple in CA where gift cards are considered cash and NEVER expire.

Yes, California is famous for protecting people from their own stupidity.