Recurring problem with different OS...

[YanKleber]

Hey all!

My first thread here...

I have had this recurring issue in the last one year either with WXP, W7 and Ubuntu. The problem is that after some time using the computer after a full fresh OS install the computer suddenly loses the boot. The time between the install and it happens may goes from days to months (not a definitive pattern) but sooner or later it will happen.

:\

I have this last issue yesterday. I had a dual-boot (Ubuntu 14.1 and W7) and the grub just died and I couldn't recover it. This time I performed a full kill in the HD (with random 0s and 1s). Then I repartitioned, reformatted and reinstalled everything. Running only W7 Pro now. No idea when it will happen again. May be tomorrow or in six months...



My guess is that the problem may be in the HD (a Samsung HD322HJ ATA) boot sectors although it is a relatively new drive (only one year) and I had HDs in the past running for YEARS without a single problem.

A couple months ago I ran some surface and diagnosis tests (don't remember exactly which ones I used) but at the time it didn't find anything wrong with the HD. Other than the boot failure I didn't have any isse with this drive, no read/write error, no data loss, no nothing.

I could just buy a new one but I wouldn't like to do that without a bit more certain that it will solve the issue or at least a clue that the HD is really the culprit.

Do you think that I am in the right way on thinking that the most possible location of the issue is the HD?

Do you guys know any RELIABLE tool that really can tell me if the HD is good or not? Or the only way to go is just buy a new HD and just pray to it stop to happen?

Thanks!

:thumbsup:

Moved from OSes to Computer Help (you should get a better response here)
-ViRGE

 

[VirtualLarry]

Is your computer overclocked at all? That can cause HDD issues.

Have you tested your RAM, with either Memtest86+, or HCI Memtest?

Have you applied the firmware update for Samsung HDDs? Data loss was a possible outcome, if the HDD wasn't upgraded.

 

[YanKleber]

VirtualLarry, the answer for your questions are NO-NO-NO.

Good tip about the RAM test, I will check this.

I am a bit freak about firmware updates though, because so many scary stories about people that does that and the hardware becomes unusable after that due to something goes wrong along the process.

 

[Ketchup]

I follow VirtualLarry's line of thinking here.

SeaTools has been my go-to program for testing like this, with its long test.

They have a Windows version, but I made a bootable CD I use for this, to make sure the entire disk is covered.

Is there any odd message that comes with the OS drive dying, or just the 'no boot source'?

 

[YanKleber]

SeaTools has been my go-to program for testing like this, with its long test.

Thanks for the tip. I have d/l the MemTest86+ but will try this your suggestion.

Is there any odd message that comes with the OS drive dying, or just the 'no boot source'?

Absolutelly no message or anything else that may be a sign that something is wrong. I simply turn off the computer after a successfull day of work and go to bed. Then the morning after I press the power button just to figure out that my boot is gone.

 

[Ketchup]

So you have 2 OS's on a drive (so 2 different bootloaders) and one day they both just die?

 

[YanKleber]

So you have 2 OS's on a drive (so 2 different bootloaders) and one day they both just die?

Well, not exactly.

However, when you have two (or more) OS installed in the same disk there will be always one that preceed the other(s), what means that one of them will show a boot menu to allow you to choose which one you want to start with.

Happens that the boot menu is the first thing to be loaded, and if it gets so seriously screwed that you don't have a way to recover it, then, YES, it is somewhat like if all OS just died. Although they are still there they are unreachable for boot purposes. For all meanings the result from the point of view of the user is pretty much the same.

:\

Please correct me if it is not right and let me know what I am doing wrong. I would like to learn how to override a damaged menu and boot from one of the existing OS.



Anyway, In my case, the last time it happened (couple days ago) the Linux (Ubuntu flavor) was the default OS and it was the "grub" (Linux boot menu) that got damaged.

Then I tried an usual tool to fix it called "boot-repair" that didn't work this time (it has worked successfully before). Instead to get the "grub" back -- that would be the expected -- the "boot-repair" just put Windows as the default OS so after to turn computer on it just went directly to Windows.

Although it seem to be nice, my joy didn't long for so much: after a few seconds seated at the Windows load screen the system just stalled and rebooted, and it would keep repeating this loop forever.

Since I didn't want to spend a lot more time just trying other desperate measures without any guarantee that it would end fixing the problem (actually a series of such attempts almost always end turning the problem worse) I preferred to reformat, repartition, reinstall, re-everything...

:'(

 

[sm625]

Is it possible that your bios settings are reverting to defaults, and that some default bios setting is insufficient for it to boot (AHCI vs IDE, etc)?

 

[YanKleber]

Is it possible that your bios settings are reverting to defaults, and that some default bios setting is insufficient for it to boot (AHCI vs IDE, etc)?

That's a good guess, but if it was the case it wouldn't keep preventing me to boot even after a fresh install?

 

[Ketchup]

Thanks for the clarification. Is it always the grub that dies?
Are you always putting the partitions in the same general area?
Have you tried different programs/boot managers to get the correct OS?

I tend to wonder if this program would reproduce if you just made one partition, installed Windows, and put Ubuntu on a VM?

 

[YanKleber]

As I have mentioned in the OP I am suspicious about my HD regardless it is a new drive. Although VirtualLarry has suggested me to update its firmware this is the kind of thing that just freak me out. After 30+ years dealing with IT I confess that I still am conservative about to keep hardware as it came from factory. Yeah, I know, it may sound stupid but I am just this coward.

:$

Anyway, I have just ordered a SSD to use it as my OS drive and will put my current HD as a second drive for files and stuff since I never experienced any data loss with it. Heck, I have wanted to try this SSD thing for a while and maybe now is a good chance.

Beside that I will put my computer under an overnight mem test and see what it says.

Then I will watch what will happen in the next few months. I hope that with the new SSD drive the boot failure stop to happen...

 

[Ketchup]

...I hope that with the new SSD drive the boot failure stop to happen...

Oh yeah, SSD's fix everything, lol!

Enjoy the new drive. I hope it problems go away as well.

 

[YanKleber]

Thanks for the clarification. Is it always the grub that dies?

Not always the grub. Before to have Ubuntu+W7 I had a XP+W7 and had similar failure (Windows boot manager failed). Before that, I had only XP installed and have its boot died too.

That's what makes me think that it is something to do with the boot sectors.

Are you always putting the partitions in the same general area?

Not always. I have done some repartition, spliting and merging and putting OS in different places. But although I have some experience doing it along decades I don't consider myself an expert as I don't know about that geek ingenuous tweaks. While I am not a common user, the tech stuff I do on my computers is by using the regular resources that the tools offer. For instances, I know how to use a partition tool without to make a big sh*t but I never would dare enough to try some kind of freaking tool that allow you to tweak a single low level byte in the HD that turns upside down the partition and such. I think you got me.

Have you tried different programs/boot managers to get the correct OS?

No, actually I have used only the original Ubuntu grub and original Windows boot menu (not a geek here). But I should insist that it seems to be unusual that it keep losing the boot ability again and again with different boot managers (and even with a single boot install) so it really doesn't look like to me that the boot managers are the culprit here.

I tend to wonder if this program would reproduce if you just made one partition, installed Windows, and put Ubuntu on a VM?

I think you meant 'problem' instead 'program'? Well, I guess so, because as I mentioned above I have lost my boot more than once even when I had only XP (no boot manager) installed.

All in all, the main issue here is not the inability of keep different OS on my computer (I am settle down with W7 only) but the boot thing itself. I am with only W7 Pro installed now but by my past experience since I started to have those issues I am SURE that it will happen again sooner or later.

Well, actually I am in the hope that it does NOT turn to happen because as I mentioned in my previous post I have ordered a SSD to use as my boot drive. Unless that it really is not being caused by the HD and there is a ghost in this machine.

:hmm:

 

[YanKleber]

Oh yeah, SSD's fix everything, lol!

Enjoy the new drive. I hope it problems go away as well.

So do I! It is going to be added to my list of computer misteries that I have seen here and there along my hard journey in the IT way.

:sneaky:

 

[Ketchup]

OK, I am not really any closer to determining a cause here, but so it goes in forums sometimes. And I don't know what happened to my spelling/wording up there. I'll blame it on the lunch!

 

[chusteczka]

I am going to go with reoccurring data corruption.

• Hard drive issues as mentioned, firmware, mfr drive test utility, Windows checkdisk.
• Bios; sata, ahci, raid settings.
• AHCI drivers.
• Motherboard chipset drivers.
• Failing, cheap, or bad brand of power supply. Or PSU is too small for the system components.
• Unclean power, reoccurring brownouts, old home wiring, no UPS or AVR.

 

[YanKleber]

Thanks for all support, ketchup79! I will post futher results here. My new SSD drive should arrive in a couple days.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Thanks for all support, ketchup79! I will post futher results here. My new SSD drive should arrive in a couple days.

If you find that the BIOS settings are changing, get another wafer battery and replace after writing down your settings or getting screen-copies of BIOS menus.

Have you looked at your Event Logs lately? There are certain (red) errors and (yellow) warnings that might indicate a RAM problem. Does Windows Update run successfully or does it throw up a message about "unable to complete update" or something like that?

You'll figure it out, and you're getting the SSD replacement, so . . .

 

[YanKleber]

If you find that the BIOS settings are changing, get another wafer battery and replace after writing down your settings or getting screen-copies of BIOS menus.

Have you looked at your Event Logs lately? There are certain (red) errors and (yellow) warnings that might indicate a RAM problem. Does Windows Update run successfully or does it throw up a message about "unable to complete update" or something like that?

You'll figure it out, and you're getting the SSD replacement, so . . .

Hey BonzaiDuck, I think that it is a bit hard that the BIOS is losing the settings due to a battery failure since it is a brand new mobo bought around six months ago.

I will check the event logs, good idea. About updates, to be honest with you, I don't like them and don't trust them (I had serious problems in the past with such updates screwing my whole system before my eyes) so I always keep updates turned off.

Thanks for the thoughts!

^_^

 

[chusteczka]

About updates, to be honest with you, I don't like them and don't trust them (I had serious problems in the past with such updates screwing my whole system before my eyes) so I always keep updates turned off.

I have found it wise not to install all updates at once, especially when there are several updates needing installation. Although lately I have seen failed updates get installed properly in the next round or two of update installation but I would still rather not have an update fail.

I tend to manually separate IE, .NET framework, and updates larger than 10MB. Security updates can typically be installed all at once.

One of the systems I administer seems to have a failing motherboard, automatic updates are turned off for that one. I do them manually so I can see what happens.

 

[YanKleber]

After to check the system log of the Windows 7 Pro I fresh installed a couple days ago I have found several errors regarding to updates that failed to install regardless my auto-update is turned off. Weird!