Recreational use of Marijuana under fire from SCROTUS

[Sea Ray]

Does changing the schedule of it and moving it to state votes as part of the party platform count?

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article91968027.html

That's interesting. I didn't realize that. The Dems must not have been too proud of that stance. With all the 100s of millions in advertising, I never saw an ad pushing that. If they really wanted that, why didn't they just walk up to the White House and get Pres Obama engaged on the issue? Clearly Hillary was not on board with it either.

My point stands: the powerful Dems were not for de-scheduling it

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Been 30 years with the Federal government and never had or heard of any drug testing for the majority of employees. Yes there are sensitive positions where it is done but its not normal

Doesn't mean they can't. I'm confident if someone meandered into a govt office smelling of MJ, they'd get tested.

 

[Mandres]

Can anyone explain the reluctance to reshedule cannabis? I agree that's the right solution - it seems obvious, so why hasn't it been done? Instead we have States acting in open defiance of federal law and a bizarre "we'll look the other way" position from the feds. How did it get to such a crazy situation when the real answer (rescheduling) seems so simple?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Can anyone explain the reluctance to reshedule cannabis? I agree that's the right solution - it seems obvious, so why hasn't it been done? Instead we have States acting in open defiance of federal law and a bizarre "we'll look the other way" position from the feds. How did it get to such a crazy situation when the real answer (rescheduling) seems so simple?

Because those in positions of power are cowards, frankly. They're terrified to go against the party line, and most are too timid to stake a stance on something that's vaguely neutral according to their party.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

My argument is that there is no mens rea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea

Look at Federal law in that section and that mens rea is not how the Feds are obliged to abide by. Federal code is what is used and the CSA is part of the code.

I want people to understand that I'm not supporting the criminalization of MJ, far from it, but "well people want it" does not in any way alter the fact that using it is illegal no matter what any state says, or if Obama or Holder told people they wouldn't enforce law.

My point is that no one cared to hold anyone accountable when changes could have happened and insisted that the states can do whatever they want.

Well that may turn out not to be the case once Federal law is enforced. Just tearing up the law because it doesn't suit people? Don't blame Trump when he does the same, or blame him but no one has grounds to complain about law being violated because they have no moral ground to do so.

At this point the only course of action is through the legislature and good luck.

Again better luck next time assuming people hold their own accountable or just wildly gesticulate and defend "their" administration.

Actions or lack thereof have consequences and it may be this is just such a case. I hope not but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Look at Federal law in that section and that mens rea is not how the Feds are obliged to abide by. Federal code is what is used and the CSA is part of the code.

I want people to understand that I'm not supporting the criminalization of MJ, far from it, but "well people want it" does not in any way alter the fact that using it is illegal no matter what any state says, or if Obama or Holder told people they wouldn't enforce law.

My point is that no one cared to hold anyone accountable when changes could have happened and insisted that the states can do whatever they want.

Well that may turn out not to be the case once Federal law is enforced. Just tearing up the law because it doesn't suit people? Don't blame Trump when he does the same, or blame him but no one has grounds to complain about law being violated because they have no moral ground to do so.

At this point the only course of action is through the legislature and good luck.

Again better luck next time assuming people hold their own accountable or just wildly gesticulate and defend "their" administration.

Actions or lack thereof have consequences and it may be this is just such a case. I hope not but I'm not holding my breath.

What's interesting is that there's a double-standard within the govt (or at least, within the military) when it comes to this. MJ is flat-out no, period. No matter where you are stationed, where you were on vacation at, etc. However, with anything age-restricted (such as alcohol), they follow the laws laid down by the area you're stationed at. In Germany? You can drink, since anyone old enough to be in the military is of drinking age in Germany. Disregard US law for one substance, but not for another.

I'm sure there's plenty of other examples as well.

 

[Jhhnn]

That's interesting. I didn't realize that. The Dems must not have been too proud of that stance. With all the 100s of millions in advertising, I never saw an ad pushing that. If they really wanted that, why didn't they just walk up to the White House and get Pres Obama engaged on the issue? Clearly Hillary was not on board with it either.

My point stands: the powerful Dems were not for de-scheduling it

Dandy spin on the "they're just as bad" dodge into denial. MMJ & legalization have been winning for 20 years thru grass roots efforts at the State level. The time is not yet right to take it to the national level. Dems' platform & efforts support that winning strategy entirely, as has the Obama Admin since the Cole memo.

It's like eating an elephant. You do it one bite at a time.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Dandy spin on the "they're just as bad" dodge into denial. MMJ & legalization have been winning for 20 years thru grass roots efforts at the State level. The time is not yet right to take it to the national level. Dems' platform & efforts support that winning strategy entirely, as has the Obama Admin since the Cole memo.

It's like eating an elephant. You do it one bite at a time.

That excuse is long been worn out.

 

[Jhhnn]

Can anyone explain the reluctance to reshedule cannabis? I agree that's the right solution - it seems obvious, so why hasn't it been done? Instead we have States acting in open defiance of federal law and a bizarre "we'll look the other way" position from the feds. How did it get to such a crazy situation when the real answer (rescheduling) seems so simple?

Because conservatives & law enforcement would have to admit that millions of people have been wrongfully fined & imprisoned over the 80 years that prohibition has been in force. Because prohibition supports the drug testing industry & the whole prison industrial complex. Because the War on Pot is half the WoD. Because prohibition serves entrenched power at every level. Because only an act of Congress can put Cannabis where it belongs outside drug scheduling entirely.

 

[Jhhnn]

That excuse is long been worn out.

Mere assertion. We have a winning strategy & we'll stick with it until we eat the whole elephant.

 

[Vic]

Look at Federal law in that section and that mens rea is not how the Feds are obliged to abide by. Federal code is what is used and the CSA is part of the code.

I want people to understand that I'm not supporting the criminalization of MJ, far from it, but "well people want it" does not in any way alter the fact that using it is illegal no matter what any state says, or if Obama or Holder told people they wouldn't enforce law.

My point is that no one cared to hold anyone accountable when changes could have happened and insisted that the states can do whatever they want.

Well that may turn out not to be the case once Federal law is enforced. Just tearing up the law because it doesn't suit people? Don't blame Trump when he does the same, or blame him but no one has grounds to complain about law being violated because they have no moral ground to do so.

At this point the only course of action is through the legislature and good luck.

Again better luck next time assuming people hold their own accountable or just wildly gesticulate and defend "their" administration.

Actions or lack thereof have consequences and it may be this is just such a case. I hope not but I'm not holding my breath.

I hear what you're saying. Like I posted earlier, I almost hope that Trump decides to push forward on this. In the waning days of alcohol prohibition, Hoover believed that having the law on his side was all that he needed even after public support for the law had faded. And we should all know how that worked out for him.
Yaknow, I've been saying for over a year now that Trump is the 21st century Hoover and, maybe it's just confirmation bias on my part, but more and more the similarities are becoming apparent.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Mere assertion. We have a winning strategy & we'll stick with it until we eat the whole elephant.

It's like your winning stratgey to not do anything for the last 8 years about Iraq accountability. See the names of the dead sticky? Could be "The dead without justice"

The "winning" plan was to do nothing, just like now. Obama could have stepped up to the plate and legally made changes difficult to reverse per the CSA. Nope. The thousands imprisioned over bathrooms kept him busy?

The Dem plan is to leave tens of thousands arrested and imprisoned when they could have done something.

How winning is that?

 

[HTFOff]

Not a winner for the GOP and I don't see Trump cracking down on it even with sessions at the helm. The usual bible belt hardliners will continue to moan about it.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I hear what you're saying. Like I posted, I almost hope that Trump decides to push forward on this. In the waning days of alcohol prohibition, Hoover believed that having the law on his side was all he needed even as public support for the law had faded. And we should all know how that worked out for him.
Yaknow, I've been saying for over a year now that Trump is the 21st century Hoover and, maybe it's just confirmation bias on my part, but more and more the similarities are becoming apparent.

This is a case of partisans needing to hold their own accountable. Rather see the world in flames first. It's too late for at least 4 years now. What a shame.

Trump only needs to follow the law as left to him. Really a shame.

 

[Sea Ray]

Mere assertion. We have a winning strategy & we'll stick with it until we eat the whole elephant.

Republicans have done nothing but win since Obama was elected the first time. Just look around. What don't they control?

 

[MikeMike]

So... Transgendered protections should be left up to states, because states rights are better.

Marijuana should not be left up to the states, because federal rights are better.

huh?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

So... Transgendered protections should be left up to states, because states rights are better.

Marijuana should not be left up to the states, because federal rights are better.

huh?

Protection of rights should be left up to the federal level, as a shield, not a spear. Outlawing/restricting further should be left to the states, as long as they do not conflict with the protection of rights afforded by the federal govt. That last part would be considered a source of contention, often.

 

[vi edit]

So... Transgendered protections should be left up to states, because states rights are better.

Marijuana should not be left up to the states, because federal rights are better.

huh?

Cancer patients, the terminally ill, and those with chronic neuropathic pathic pain are low energy losers.

 

[hal2kilo]

Because conservatives & law enforcement would have to admit that millions of people have been wrongfully fined & imprisoned over the 80 years that prohibition has been in force. Because prohibition supports the drug testing industry & the whole prison industrial complex. Because the War on Pot is half the WoD. Because prohibition serves entrenched power at every level. Because only an act of Congress can put Cannabis where it belongs outside drug scheduling entirely.

Notice that Sessions killed the Obama EO that dramatically reduces the use of private prisons.

They prison lobby contributed a bunch of money for the Inaugural transition.

 

[Jhhnn]

It's like your winning stratgey to not do anything for the last 8 years about Iraq accountability. See the names of the dead sticky? Could be "The dead without justice"

The "winning" plan was to do nothing, just like now. Obama could have stepped up to the plate and legally made changes difficult to reverse per the CSA. Nope. The thousands imprisioned over bathrooms kept him busy?

The Dem plan is to leave tens of thousands arrested and imprisoned when they could have done something.

How winning is that?

Could we get a little more diversion over here, please?

"Could have done something" is bullshit. Obama couldn't just re-schedule cannabis by executive decree. There are elaborate protocols that federal agencies must follow before any Prez can do that, otherwise their efforts would be attacked as illegitimate. Putting his name on it likely would have been counterproductive, anyway, given Congress & the right wing noise machine. Instead he gets to paint it as what the people want, make the opposition fight on ground not of their choosing.

For the purposes of getting something done the States' Right angle dooms the opposition to eventual capitulation. Even if federal law were rescinded they could still break pot smoker balls in all the places they currently do & there's nothing to be done about it until State residents declare otherwise. They have & will do so increasingly. We're right in the middle of a tipping point, a paradigm shift bolstered by the facts & figures gained in MMJ & legalization states.

If whipping a guilt trip on people doing their best to right this injustice floats your boat then feel free to try. We're not buying it. We'll continue to pick the battlefields & keep on winning until Congress capitulates.

Your maudlin handwringing & concern trolling are duly noted, however.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Could we get a little more diversion over here, please?

"Could have done something" is bullshit. Obama couldn't just re-schedule cannabis by executive decree. There are elaborate protocols that federal agencies must follow before any Prez can do that, otherwise their efforts would be attacked as illegitimate. Putting his name on it likely would have been counterproductive, anyway, given Congress & the right wing noise machine. Instead he gets to paint it as what the people want, make the opposition fight on ground not of their choosing.

For the purposes of getting something done the States' Right angle dooms the opposition to eventual capitulation. Even if federal law were rescinded they could still break pot smoker balls in all the places they currently do & there's nothing to be done about it until State residents declare otherwise. They have & will do so increasingly. We're right in the middle of a tipping point, a paradigm shift bolstered by the facts & figures gained in MMJ & legalization states.

If whipping a guilt trip on people doing their best to right this injustice floats your boat then feel free to try. We're not buying it. We'll continue to pick the battlefields & keep on winning until Congress capitulates.

Your maudlin handwringing & concern trolling are duly noted, however.

I know the process. I'm a friggin pharmacist who has to know the law. It's a matter of direction and may have taken months and requires no EO nor Congressional approval because that was done back in the '70s. Obama could have directed Holder to work with HHS to review the scientific literature and reschedule as seen fit. That's the process.

Penalties are based on the controlled schedule and MJ being the highest means that for 8 years we have been putting people away who might have gotten a fine. You endorse the injustice.

Congress would have had to change the law to prevent a President from rescheduling and then take the burden of rescheduling it back higher on its own. That would be a shitstorm right there.

Since you don't seem to know anything about real law, in states where MJ is illegal the standard is to follow the Federal schedule. They can't lower it, but they can raise. Of course with a C-5 drug is not in the same universe as a C-1.

BTW Congress cannot legally remove MJ from being a controlled substance because the treaty which binds us says it is and Constitutionally they are bound to honor it. What would be needed is to withdraw entirely from it.

But how many thousands locked up by cowardice and excuses based on lies? They don't matter. Obama might have looked bad to the right and we can't have that.

Side with the Reps and Right as you effectively have since you can't take ownership. I understand.

 

[Grooveriding]

There are options you can take as far as the UN treaties though.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/marijuana-legalization-canada-un-drug-conventions-1.3584148

We are legalizing this year and the three options are; to simply ignore the treaty on grounds of objection, withdraw completely, withdraw and request to re-enter the treaty with a special exemption for marijuana. From most of the news I've read, the expectation is we are withdrawing and will go for re-entry with a marijuana exemption.

I think it's going to get really interesting in the Spring once the legislation is brought through legalizing marijuana. This is not decriminalizing it, or having special areas where it's legal. It's full nation wide legalization. On store shelves, grown by private industry and sold to adults 18+. I believe the only other country with this system is Uruguay ?

I wonder how many Americans will be coming up on 'Pot vacations' 😀 This will certainly make things interesting for US border services on the Canadian border.

 

[Jhhnn]

Republicans have done nothing but win since Obama was elected the first time. Just look around. What don't they control?

State level marijuana legalization, the subject of this thread. They're losing badly in that venue.

 

[sactoking]

Obama is evil for not enforcing the laws as written pertaining to marijuana and immigration.

Trump is awesome for refusing to enforce the individual mandate law as written.

 

[Victorian Gray]

There are options you can take as far as the UN treaties though.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/marijuana-legalization-canada-un-drug-conventions-1.3584148

We are legalizing this year and the three options are; to simply ignore the treaty on grounds of objection, withdraw completely, withdraw and request to re-enter the treaty with a special exemption for marijuana. From most of the news I've read, the expectation is we are withdrawing and will go for re-entry with a marijuana exemption.

I think it's going to get really interesting in the Spring once the legislation is brought through legalizing marijuana. This is not decriminalizing it, or having special areas where it's legal. It's full nation wide legalization. On store shelves, grown by private industry and sold to adults 18+. I believe the only other country with this system is Uruguay ?

I wonder how many Americans will be coming up on 'Pot vacations' 😀 This will certainly make things interesting for US border services on the Canadian border.

Better wait and see what the govt, comes up with in terms of an actual law. I suspect that they'll be way too cautious and fuck it up like they did the assisted suicide law. Then we wait a few more years till the courts and the govt. get things worked out.