Recording LPs to the Computer

[AMDZen]

This might belong in the software or hardware forums, so if a Mod feels this way please move it. I'm asking about the software and hardware used to do it, I also want some advice on if the Hardware being used is adequate and see if one turntable is better then another - and lastly because more people come here to OT.

So, my dad wants to record old records to his PC in the highest quality to then burn to CD. He has an nForce2 EPOX 8NPA board on a computer I built for him. He had a SB Live! Card on his previous comp, but at the time I told him to use the onboard instead because I believed it was better. I don't know if I was right about this or not, but he still has the Live! card if it would be better for the task.

Basically, from the hardware perspective, would either of these cards be adequate for this job? Or would you recommend something higher end. It doesn't have to be perfect, and he isn't exactly an audiophile, but if there is a sound card thats better for the job at a relatively low price, I'm sure he might opt for that - depending on the actual sound quality difference. Also, I haven't looked at his onboard sound, but I'm pretty sure all onboard sound options came with an "input", correct?

On the turntable options. He has found a $25.00 turntable that he is looking at buying that uses diamond needles. Its a Sony. I know very few people use turntables and so the prices would be low, but it still seems like a really low price for anything quality. Is any turntable better then another? I don't know much about turntables or any options related to them.

Now for software questions. I have used Total Recorder and like it for what I use it for, but would this be the best option to record from the sound card in this case?? What software would be better, if any. He also wants to be able to take out any hisses, scratches and pops from the old Records. Is there an "all in one" type solution that is best for this? I already own Total Recorder and a copy of Sound Forge (given to me long ago) and don't use the sound forge much, so I already have some software if its capable of what he wants to do. But would want to get him something better if its available. I'm not sure if sound forge can do the editing aspect, but I know its capable of a lot so thought I would ask here. Just throw out all the options on this if you can. I'm sure there is a lot of software to do this, just wondering what is best and also easy. Although easy takes a back seat to quality, and ability to take out the most "flaws" in the older records, as I am a quick study and can help him with it.

Anyone who can help me out with any or all of these questions would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

 

[HendrixFan]

Ive transferred a bit of vinyl myself, been doing so for 6 years or so. I clean the discs well, and use my turntable (nothing fancy). In the past, I used the SBLive! and DartPro to clean it up. Since then I have used the Audiophile 2496 and the Revolution 7.1, and I use Adobe Audition to clean it up.

If the record is in bad shape, no amount of filtering or manual cleaning will fix it. If its in pretty good shape, you can eliminate most the extraneous noise.

 

[AMDZen]

Did you record it first, and if so what software. Does Adobe Audition record it as well as clean it up? Is the live a good enough sound card for this? I was wrong on the Epox board (tried to remember from memory). He has the 8RDA+, which has the RealTek ALC65x 6 channel sound card. Is this pretty decent, or would the Live! be better?

 

[spidey07]

In my opinion I wouldn't use a cheap table.

You can get a decent one with a good cartridge for around 500 bucks. From there a good pre-amp is necessary.

Then maybe get a professional sound card?

 

[FrustratedUser]

I've done this a few times.

My Stereo system was this:
Dual 621 turntable - good old direct drive anno 1978
Rotel 920 Amp

Computer:
500MHz Celeron Compaq Presario with built in sound

I connected the outputs that usually connects to the Tape deck to 'Line-In' on my computer.
I used Goldwave to record a complete side of the LP to one file (.wav)and then it was chopped up in individual songs with Goldwave. I did not apply any filtering at all since my records are in great shape.

Turned out great!

 

[Nitemare]

Wouldn't it be cheaper and better quality if you just got them off allofmp3.com?

 

[AMDZen]

Your dealing with a n00b on this kind of thing, what exactly do you mean by a "pre-amp is necessary"?

I seriously doubt he will go for a $500 turntable, nor am I really sure the quality would be that much better. I know DJs use Technics and such, because if they scratch or anything on them, the direct drive ensure's a cleaner sound, and so forth - but when playing old LPs from the 60's, is it going to matter that much? I'm a n00b so I could be wrong, but isn't there a relatively inexpensive table with good sound quality?

As for the sound card, I was definetely thinking he would need a better sound card - but again, I know he won't go all out - what about the xMystique? I can recall hearing nothing but good things about this card, and its only $90 at newegg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16829127001

That would be around the price range I think he would go for.

 

[spidey07]

Maybe I pushed you the wrong way.

I prize LPs and think they sound superb, so of course I'm going to recommend trying to preserve that before your record it.

If your dad isn't really into music reproduction or stereo then ignore my post. Its overkill for somebody that just wants to get the LPs into the computer.

Its been a while since I've looked into home theater PC type applications. There are normally really good sound cards recommended...ones that do the encoding outside of the noisy computer chassis.

 

[AMDZen]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Maybe I pushed you the wrong way.

I prize LPs and think they sound superb, so of course I'm going to recommend trying to preserve that before your record it.

If your dad isn't really into music reproduction or stereo then ignore my post. Its overkill for somebody that just wants to get the LPs into the computer.

I know what your saying is overkill for him, but you also seem knowledgable. Can you recommend some sort of medium, as in the best bang for the buck type solution in this case.

 

[FrustratedUser]

OP, your system is going to be OK, well maybe not the $25 turntable.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser
OP, your system is going to be OK, well maybe not the $25 turntable.

Yeah, but he needs something with a phono pre amp in it. An intergrated amp or receiver.

I believe your rotel had a pretty good phono section.

Or we could push him to the dark side and have him build his own tube phono-preamp.

 

[AMDZen]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser
OP, your system is going to be OK, well maybe not the $25 turntable.

Yeah, but he needs something with a phono pre amp in it. An intergrated amp or receiver.

I believe your rotel had a pretty good phono section.

Once again - you completely lost me. Can you perhaps explain what your talking about? Is "rotel" an eTailer or something? Could you perhaps recommend a good table at a reasonable price?

 

[FrustratedUser]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser
OP, your system is going to be OK, well maybe not the $25 turntable.

Yeah, but he needs something with a phono pre amp in it. An intergrated amp or receiver.

I believe your rotel had a pretty good phono section.

Yes he needs an amplifier with a phono input.
The sound recorded on a LP is filtered so that the amplitude of low freq sounds are decreased and high freq sound is increased. The phono input has a so called RIAA amplifier (filter) that corrects this.

The Rotel is awesome.

 

[spidey07]

A record player puts out a very low voltage signal.

A phono preamp (or the phono input on a receiver) takes this low level signal and amplifies it to a normal level as well as applies equilization.

So - do you have a receiver with a phono or record player input? Does it have a tape or monitor out output? You could take this line level signal and plug it into a sound card or outboard encorder.

 

[AMDZen]

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser
OP, your system is going to be OK, well maybe not the $25 turntable.

Yeah, but he needs something with a phono pre amp in it. An intergrated amp or receiver.

I believe your rotel had a pretty good phono section.

Yes he needs an amplifier with a phono input.
The sound recorded on a LP is filtered so that the amplitude of low freq sounds are decreased and high freq sound is increased. The phono input has a so called RIAA amplifier (filter) that corrects this.

The Rotel is awesome.

Ahhh I see. That helps a bit, I was just confuzzled. BTW Thanks for your help guys.

So would the turntable output to the Pre-amp (using RCA's?)? And then from the pre-amp, to the Souncard (also using RCA stereo)? And then would you use RCA to mini-stereo to plug into input on sound card? Would that degrade the quality since your converting?

 

[FrustratedUser]

Some info about RIAA.AMDZen - What amplifier do you have? Does it have a phono input? If not then you are fscked and will need to by a separate pre-amp with RIAA correction.

Actually here is a link to a sound recorder with built in RIAA correction. Linky!

 

[DanceMan]

Vinyl to digital audio conversion, do it all the time!

Personally, I think non-onboard audio is probably fine, but I would recommend the Live. Even better are the optical-input motherboards/sound cards with optical output turntables. This will then isolate the computer from the turntable ground, which may help reduce electrical noise. And, as far as I have seen, they do come with input (called Line in). Tip -- mute all other inputs that you can, especially microphone & CD inputs. These tend to have the most noise.

Turntable -- here I think it is of more importance. I do think there is much difference between turntables from low-to-high end, but less and less so between medium and high end. Things better to have here are direct-drive and line-output or optical output, if you can. More important is getting the vinyl clean as possible before recording -- this to me makes the biggest difference of all.

Software -- you do have various options here. Total Recorder will work fine for recording, but you are right, for cleaning and mastering, there is much better software. If you have the money to burn, then go with a professional package like Sound Forge or Dart Pro. I like Sound Forge, because of the audio clean-up tools (Noise Reduction) and Wave Hammer -- really seems to work well with vinyl and give it a CD-like punch. If you don't have the funds, look at the cut-down version of Sound Forge, Audio Studio, or Magix's Audio Cleaning Lab. Another good option if you have Nero 6 OEM sitting around is SoundTrax. Some of these sound programs have some CD Mastering that you can use to help put together a good CD. If done correctly, and you have a good vinyl source, and a decent turntable, a good clean can be difficult to distinguish from a CD (at least to the naked, untrained ear).

Some Tips -- Get the signal level as high on the Line Input as possible, but not overload. Do not record near flourecent or halogen lights, if possible (I can hear the additional noise). Clean your records well (professionally, if possible). If you use any audio cleaning software, I would do the following order --> Normalize, Noise Reduction, Add back some of the High End via EQ, and then Wave Hammer the whole thing.

 

[AMDZen]

Originally posted by: spidey07
A record player puts out a very low voltage signal.

A phono preamp (or the phono input on a receiver) takes this low level signal and amplifies it to a normal level as well as applies equilization.

So - do you have a receiver with a phono or record player input? Does it have a tape or monitor out output? You could take this live level signal and plug it into a sound card or outboard encorder.

Ok, that first part with needing an amp is definetely making sense to me. And yes, I do have a receiver - which I believe has a phono input, but I'm not so sure about the output although I would assume it does. However, my dad does not, nor would it be possible to part with mine for as long as he would need one to record all of his records.

Would just buying a pre-amp be enough, or would he want a complete receiver? I see pre-amps from 25$. I tried looking for the Rotel 920 Amp, but didn't find that one. What would be a reasonably priced pre-amp for him?

 

[FrustratedUser]

Originally posted by: AMDZen

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser
OP, your system is going to be OK, well maybe not the $25 turntable.

Yeah, but he needs something with a phono pre amp in it. An intergrated amp or receiver.

I believe your rotel had a pretty good phono section.

Yes he needs an amplifier with a phono input.
The sound recorded on a LP is filtered so that the amplitude of low freq sounds are decreased and high freq sound is increased. The phono input has a so called RIAA amplifier (filter) that corrects this.

The Rotel is awesome.

Ahhh I see. That helps a bit, I was just confuzzled. BTW Thanks for your help guys.

So would the turntable output to the Pre-amp (using RCA's?)? And then from the pre-amp, to the Souncard (also using RCA stereo)? And then would you use RCA to mini-stereo to plug into input on sound card? Would that degrade the quality since your converting?

That will work. I had 40 ft of cable when I did this :Q The reason was that my comp was hooked up in the other end of my apartment and I didn't want to move it.

 

[aircooled]

For software, Goldwave works great and with LAME added to it makes great MP3's from any source.

 

[AMDZen]

Thanks a lot guys. I'm glad Sound Forge does what I want since I already have it. So sound forge does record off the card just as Total Recorder?

So yes, I believe I will try to talk my dad into the $90 xMystique since I've heard good things about it.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16829127001

Just a quick clarification, it says it has SPDI/F Input, isn't SPDI/F and Optical the same thing? Now I just need to find a table with optical out, assuming that will work with this card. And also, are there tables that already have the pre-amp built in? If anyone could recommend a specific table, I'd appreciate it.

 

[DanceMan]

Originally posted by: AMDZen

Originally posted by: spidey07
A record player puts out a very low voltage signal.

A phono preamp (or the phono input on a receiver) takes this low level signal and amplifies it to a normal level as well as applies equilization.

So - do you have a receiver with a phono or record player input? Does it have a tape or monitor out output? You could take this live level signal and plug it into a sound card or outboard encorder.

Ok, that first part with needing an amp is definetely making sense to me. And yes, I do have a receiver - which I believe has a phono input, but I'm not so sure about the output although I would assume it does. However, my dad does not, nor would it be possible to part with mine for as long as he would need one to record all of his records.

Would just buying a pre-amp be enough, or would he want a complete receiver? I see pre-amps from 25$. I tried looking for the Rotel 920 Amp, but didn't find that one. What would be a reasonably priced pre-amp for him?

You can also buy turntables with the pre-amp built in. I have used these before for recording, and they work just fine, but they are not high end, $500-types, but more than adequate for home conversion. These can be found at Best Buy and Circuit City for $99 or less.

 

[AMDZen]

Thanks a lot guys, you've all been most helpful

 

[FrustratedUser]

Originally posted by: AMDZen

Originally posted by: spidey07
A record player puts out a very low voltage signal.

A phono preamp (or the phono input on a receiver) takes this low level signal and amplifies it to a normal level as well as applies equilization.

So - do you have a receiver with a phono or record player input? Does it have a tape or monitor out output? You could take this live level signal and plug it into a sound card or outboard encorder.

Ok, that first part with needing an amp is definetely making sense to me. And yes, I do have a receiver - which I believe has a phono input, but I'm not so sure about the output although I would assume it does. However, my dad does not, nor would it be possible to part with mine for as long as he would need one to record all of his records.

Would just buying a pre-amp be enough, or would he want a complete receiver? I see pre-amps from 25$. I tried looking for the Rotel 920 Amp, but didn't find that one. What would be a reasonably priced pre-amp for him?

The Rotel 920A is an integrated amplifier but you won't find one since it' out of production. Bought mine in 1998.

So your dad has no equipment to do this? I would suggest he looks on eBay for a cheap amplifier with phono inputs since they are very rare on new equipment and then the amplifiers are quite expensive.

How much is he willing to spend?
I suggest he should pick up a used Dual 505 turntable + an amplifier. Look for Pioneer, Technics, Yamaha, Luxman, Rotel, NAD for good but reasonably priced amplifiers.

 

[DanceMan]

Originally posted by: AMDZen
Thanks a lot guys. I'm glad Sound Forge does what I want since I already have it. So sound forge does record off the card just as Total Recorder?

So yes, I believe I will try to talk my dad into the $90 xMystique since I've heard good things about it.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16829127001

Just a quick clarification, it says it has SPDI/F Input, isn't SPDI/F and Optical the same thing? Now I just need to find a table with optical out, assuming that will work with this card. And also, are there tables that already have the pre-amp built in? If anyone could recommend a specific table, I'd appreciate it.

No, I think that SPDIF is electrical (but digital), but what you're looking for is Toslink, because you're looking for a pure optical. However, the SPDIF will work, and turntables include this also, so pick either one. I just prefer the optical. Anything that isolates the computer from the turntable is preferred.

I already mentioned tables with pre-amps built in.

Stanton makes a decent set that has digital outputs. Do a search on "Stanton digital output turntables'.