Recommendations for *TRUE* dual gbE + 8 port SATA mobo for AMD CPUs?

ryoken

Junior Member
Jun 22, 2001
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Are the additional gbE + SATA ports on nforce 4 mobos as fast as those on the chipset? For instance, the asus a8n-sli premium comes with 2 gbE ports and 8 SATA ports. the nforce 4 chipset provides one of the gbE ports and 4 of the SATA ports. but the other gbE port is provided by the Marvell 88E81001 chip and the other 4 SATA ports are provided by the Silicon Image 3114R chip.

My question here is:

1) Does the aforementioned marvell chip runs off the pci bus, thus limiting the max potential bandwidth to ~132MB/s? If so, does this mean it will be unable to match the performance of the nforce 4's gbE (given the overhead inherient in the pci bus?

2) Does the aforementioned silicon image chip also run off the pci bus? are all 4 sata ports serviced by an individual pci bus, or are they sharing the same pci bandwidth? does that mean that if i have 4 HDDs (each with a max sustained xfer rate of 50MB/s for argument's sake) in RAID0, it would not reach its maximum speed?

3) if the marvell and silicon image chips are sharing the same pci bus, does that mean transfering large files from the raid0 setup to another networked system (which also has gbE and a ramdisk as its hdd for argument's sake) be agonisingly slow?

4) finally, are the pci slots sharing the same bus as the marvell and silicon image chips (hence contending for the same bandwidth)?

I have looked at the asus website including their manuals, but have not found the answer to my question. i am not specifically targeting the nforce 4 chipset - ive just used it as an example as this question could quite as easily apply to VIA and other chipsets on other mobos.

i have also done several searches in various fora but have not been able to find the answer. apologies if i have missed it.
 

Peter

Elite Member
Oct 15, 1999
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The 3114 is a PCI chip, so yes, it's on the 32-bit 33 MHz PCI bus. As for the Marvell chip, are you sure the 81001 isn't just the PHYsical interface helper for the NF4 ethernet? Look elsewhere!

The 2nd GbE chip could be on legacy PCI too, with all the consequences you describe, or it could be on a PCIE-1x link of its own.
 

MDE

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
13,199
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It all depends on the motherboard, and it looks like the Asus you're looking at has both on the PCI bus. Optimally, you'd want at least one of the two to be either integrated into the chipset or PCI Express. Also, usually there's only one shared PCI bus on the motherboard, so yes, a RAID setup and a Gigabit ethernet card could easily choke the PCI bus (the gigabit card will do it alone :p).
 

Peter

Elite Member
Oct 15, 1999
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True for desktop boards. Server/Workstation boards typically have multiple PCI and PCI-X busses, but desktop boards have nothing but the one slow 32-bit 33 MHz PCI bus that originates on the south bridge.
 

ryoken

Junior Member
Jun 22, 2001
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Eek! That's seriously weak!! Thanx for confirming that Peter and MDE! :D

How can the single shared PCI bus possibly cope with all those "deluxe" or "premium" features advertised by motherboard manufacturers? it's like buying a car featured with four 300W RMS speakers, but is in actual fact powered by a measly 10W amp! false advertising? or are the marketing ppl stretching the truth again?

so, in the case of the asus a8n-sli premium, only 1 of the gbE ports and 4 of the sata ports can run at full speed. the remaining gbE and sata ports cannot run in full speed if used simulataneously. this is food for thought! at least for me... :Q

Can anyone recommend a motherboard (for AMD CPUs) which has at least 2 gbE ports and 8 sata ports that can be run at full speed if all are used simulataneously? i am open to workstation/server motherboards too!

 

Peter

Elite Member
Oct 15, 1999
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It's the kind of pointless featuritis that makes those "deluxe" or "premium", "extreme" or whatever marketing-driven products.

However, if you're using such a board as a desktop client, you'll hardly ever push so hard on bus throughput that you'd ever notice. Only if such a machine is running server-ish tasks or high bandwidth media applications (like HDTV PVR) will that make a noticeable difference.
 

ryoken

Junior Member
Jun 22, 2001
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Hmm... well I'm glad I found out about these "marketing features" before I went out and bought one of their mobos! :D

Well, i'm planning to use it as a DIY NAS device for simulataneous record and playback of (potentially uncompressed) multiple HDTV streams. Yes, those gbE ports will be trunked/bonded to reach 2gbE speeds, and the RAID will be setup to provide high I/O throughput and multi-terabytes of storage space.

In summary, I am after a total of:

*2gB/s to the LAN (provided by dual gbE ports)
*1200MB/s of direct-attached storage "non-blocking" bandwidth (provided by 8 SATA ports running at 150MB/s each; SATAII@300MB/s would be a bonus - and yes, i am aware that no single hard drive currently offers a STR anywhere near 150MB/s!)

So what are my options? Should I get a real basic desktop mobo and add in a pci-e 8 port sata raid card and a pci-e gbE card? or should i find a desktop mobo with *true* dual gbE (e.g. A8N32-SLI Deluxe) and then add in the raid card via pci-e? Or is there a server/workstation mobo that has the lot? Which would be most economical option?
 

jiffylube1024

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
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It sounds like you need a server/workstation board for what you are trying to accomplish. Also, as you have noted, you're not going to get anywhere close to 1200MB/s transfer rates on 8 SATA drives.

Do you relaly need transfer speeds that fast? If so, it sounds like you need a server system and a PCI-e (or 64-bit PCI) RAID card, running preferably RAID 5, or maybe 2X 4 drives running RAID 0 if you like living on the edge.

I don't know the average bitrate on HD transmissions; for DVD it's about 5-9 MB/s; I can't see HD being more than about 30MB/s uncompressed; how many streams are you planning on recording/playing at once?
 

ryoken

Junior Member
Jun 22, 2001
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Well i prolly won't need 1200MB/s right now, but it's a nice to have the upgrade path there in the future when single HDDs do manage to provide a STR of 130MB~145MB/s (and from what I've read, Maxtor's Atlas 15K II already does something like 98MB/s today!).

According to these guys (http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/pdfs/hdprimer.pdf - flip to page 8), a single uncompressed 1080 25p 10-bit uncompressed video stream consumes 1037Mbps, or about 130MB/s! As a consequence, even the bonded 2gbE ports would already be working near its limits, taking into consideration TCP/IP overhead.

Given this, we would want to avoid uncompressed HD as much as possible. I am planning for 5 simulataneous HD reads AND writes (peak for now), and probably about 3 simulataneous HD reads AND writes (on average for now).

I'm still all ears for suggestions! :cool:
 

mrchew

Junior Member
Jan 13, 2006
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The A8N32-SLI board (with X16 chipset) has it's SiI3132 controller on PCIe, and the 2nd GbE port is also on PCIe. Only problem is the 3132 controller only has 2 ports, providing a total of 6 ports as opposed to the 8 you have stated are required.
 

ryoken

Junior Member
Jun 22, 2001
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yeah, ive been thinking about the A8N32-SLI.. seems almost perfect. can the external sata ("sata-on-the-go" feature) be used internally? or is there some fiddling around to do?

the other board ive only very recently noticed fits these requirements is the Foxconn NFPIK8AA-8EKRS (Single Socket 940). check it out here: http://www.foxconnchannel.com/products_motherboard_2.cfm?pName=NFPIK8AA-8EKRS

has anyone heard much about this? the only problem with this motherboard as far as i can see, is that i can't get it here in Australia :(