Recommendation for JBOD rig

[Namoi]

Hi,

This is my first post here, so hello to evryone.

I need your help as i am gathering infos to build a HDD enclosure which would potentially accomodate up to 5x6To WD red HDD (at the end ).
No motherboard inside : it's really just a DAS.

The case i intend to use is a Fractal Design Node 304.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1374-page3.html

As you can see the hdd are not stacked up to each other so they won't cook themeselves. Additionaly two 92mm fans are placed in front of the hdd an a 140mm fan is also present at the rear of the case.
The case can accomodate a standard atx PSU but it is placed under the hdd. An extention cable connect the psu to the actual outside power inlet.

The controller i will use is an addonics sata/usb3 port multiplier

http://www.addonics.com/products/ad5hpmreu.php

It can accomodate up to 5 sata HDD and provide an esata and usb3 external port.
It is powered through a standard floppy power connector.

The drives won't probably never spin up all together, but the psu should handle it anyway.


My big question is what psu should i use ?

I could go the easy way and choose a fanless or semi fanless atx psu, plug in a switch like this one
http://www.moddiy.com/products/Jump...pply-Jumper-On{47}Off-Switch-(Red-Light).html

Or choose a pico psu with an external brick (that i could put inside the box too).

Any ideas how to achieve this, knowing that silence is a must as the unit will be used in the living room as a media "server" ?

Thanks for your help

 

[philipma1957]

do you plan to pull the smaller 92 mm fans?

if you pull them and get the fanless seasonic

add a second fan on top of the seasonic psu make it pull air in then

drive the fans with this

http://www.govgroup.com/supermicro_...wer_adapter_cable_cbl_0065l-1385395-prd1.htm?

connect this to the seasonic wire to use 7 volts.

fans will quiet

 

[Namoi]

Thanks for answering.
I don't know if i will remove the 2x92mm... Maybe i can keep just one or i can indeed do as you suggest and put a fan up the psu.
Problem is that this psu seems to be aliitle overkill. 400W for 5 hdds.

I am also concerned by the fact that it seems some (most ?) psu need a load to powerup. I don't know if the hdds would act as so ?

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Thanks for answering.
I don't know if i will remove the 2x92mm... Maybe i can keep just one or i can indeed do as you suggest and put a fan up the psu.
Problem is that this psu seems to be aliitle overkill. 400W for 5 hdds.

I am also concerned by the fact that it seems some (most ?) psu need a load to powerup. I don't know if the hdds would act as so ?

I'm just commenting "on the fly," and haven't revisited the Addonics site before posting here.

To my recollection, they actually sell an empty NAS box with the port-multiplier hardware and (possibly) PSU -- ready-made. I'm assuming the naïve perspective of one who never tried this, but the power-supplies for external single USB drives are small and simple. So there really shouldn't be a need to shell out for a top-end Seasonic, even those in the lower tiers of wattage-specs. You only need a power supply that is more than adequate to handle the full prospect of HDD expansion in such a box. And the features you want in a PSU for a decent computer or gaming system are about as necessary for that as they are for the USB devices I mentioned.

Some folks have had troubles with drive-drop-outs using port-multipliers.

Only another thought. I see nothing wrong with a JBOD configuration, but I can also imagine using a program like Stablebit Drivepool to create a pool of such drives, and availing oneself of folder-level duplication. According to StableBit tech-support, you can mount and dismount a pool and have more than one pool for any given computer or server. So, after switching on the device, I'd imagine that a couple mouse-clicks would allow you to mount the pool, and the reverse procedure would apply for turning off your external box.

Am I wrong about this?

ADDENDUM: You might want to scroll down this page to the section "Power Supplies:"

http://www.addonics.com/category/power_supply.php

 

[Namoi]

Thanks :-D

I saw already the psu they sell and i was considering it, but i can't find any infos about the capacitors they use (speaking for the inernall 150w). Maybe i should ask and maybe indeed it would be the best option. But i was also thinking to possibly convert the rig to a Nas hence the need for a proper psu.

For the software you mentionned, well i don't know... a pool rings for me as a level 0 raid and don't want to use Raid.
This setup will be used half for my library and half for 2nd backing purpose of it, so raid isn't an option here.

Also the box will be pluged on a windows PC for maintenance but mostly used on a chromebox runnig Openelec which prevent the use of a lot of things. I will just have a remote... or for maintenance an ssh shell to send commands.

I will see with addonics if they can provided specs for the capacitors they use.

Thanks again :-D

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Thanks :-D

I saw already the psu they sell and i was considering it, but i can't find any infos about the capacitors they use (speaking for the inernall 150w). Maybe i should ask and maybe indeed it would be the best option. But i was also thinking to possibly convert the rig to a Nas hence the need for a proper psu.

For the software you mentionned, well i don't know... a pool rings for me as a level 0 raid and don't want to use Raid.
This setup will be used half for my library and half for 2nd backing purpose of it, so raid isn't an option here.

Also the box will be pluged on a windows PC for maintenance but mostly used on a chromebox runnig Openelec which prevent the use of a lot of things. I will just have a remote... or for maintenance an ssh shell to send commands.

I will see with addonics if they can provided specs for the capacitors they use.

Thanks again :-D

It's not RAID. Each pool member can be read (and probably written, but you wouldn't want to) as any NTFS volume. You can choose whether to assign a label (D:, E:, F: etc.) to those volumes. If you do, they're then visible to the OS. Either way, all the files stored on those disks can be recovered directly without any "magic." You might want to avoid labeling if the pool is on a workstation, but if you had to simply unhinge/uncable a disk, transfer to another machine, etc., you could simply apply a label as it conveniently suits you and copy the data.

The pool is a "virtual disk" with its own label. It cannot be backed up by imaging software, unless you image each and every member separately. Otherwise, you would use a tool like RichCopy (Robo- with GUI) and -- as desired -- schedule subsequent incremental backups automatically, or administer it manually.

DrivePool allows you to duplicate, tripli-cate, etc. at the file and folder level -- an advantage over RAID1, in which unused space is replicated and unavailable until a file is written to both disks simultaneously. Duplication means that you're redundant against any single disk going south; triplication would provide complete redundancy in the face of two disks dying at the same time. The overall read-rate throughput for duplicated files and folders is slightly improved, as is so for a RAID1 setup.

I don't think you have the redundant files/folders option with JBOD. And to be honest, I've never flirted much with JBOD. There must be some algorithm it would follow in writing to this or that disk -- the naïve presumption (I'm naïve) would be to fill up drives in sequence, but that doesn't sound good, either. The Drivepool software will balance the allocation of duplicated and unduplicated files across all the member volumes according to a priority of simultaneously implemented balancing algorithms, and the user can change the priority of one scheme over another.

So essentially, the pooling software like StableBit gives you the same result in total storage capacity of JBOD; it allows each drive to be accessed as a separate volume if ever need be; it provides user-selected redundancy at the folder and file level; and it balances storage across drives EVEN OF VARYING SIZE. So unlike RAID, the drives can be of any type and any size, with the software providing an effortless automatic balancing across them. You can remove a drive (first in the OS and software) and the pool will rebuild itself -- at least for the redundant folders and files; you can add a new drive, and the software will redistribute duplicated and unduplicated files to include it.

I think the lifetime license is about $25, + or -. It can be used on one machine, uninstalled and then reinstalled on another system, and I think there may be "price breaks" for extra machines or seats.

 

[Namoi]

Thanks, really thanks for all of this informations. I will have a look at it.
But i think there is a misunderstanding on the JBOD term i used.
The way the addonics card treat a jbod is presenting each drive independently.

There is no pool created.
Openelec will handle the concatenation by itself by merging all the files in its own database.

Sorry if i was unclear.

But anyway, you rised my interesr. I will definitely have a look at it :-D

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Thanks, really thanks for all of this informations. I will have a look at it.
But i think there is a misunderstanding on the JBOD term i used.
The way the addonics card treat a jbod is presenting each drive independently.

There is no pool created.
Openelec will handle the concatenation by itself by merging all the files in its own database.

Sorry if i was unclear.

But anyway, you rised my interesr. I will definitely have a look at it :-D

It's inexpensive and extremely reliable software. See if there's a trial-version to test for 30 days. I think there is -- there should be.

In my situation, I had been looking to replace the built-in drive-pooling of WHS v.1 when I updated my server to WHS-2011. StableBit DrivePool was one of two options, and it seems they "won the competition" among enthusiast-tech-veterans -- including me. But it was one of those occasional choices I made without fiddling with the trial version first -- I just bought it. No regrets.

After WHS-2011 seemed to become an orphan, all the SW houses which produced add-in programs expanded their scope to produce versions that were compatible with Win 7, Win 8, Server 2012, etc. So the origins of the software are solid, and it's compatible with the OS's I listed.

You may want to go "the other route," and I really can't tell you which is best for you. At the beginning and in the main, I'd first concern myself about the reliability of port-multiplier solutions. Addonics has a long-standing reputation in this field of storage parts. Do some research, get an idea about any problems others experienced. It may well be that the port-multiplier solution of the hardware in your sights is rock-solid reliable. From there, even investing time in trying an evaluation version of StableBit would not be wasted.

By the way. Not sure which controller you will use for the port-multiplier connection to the motherboard. You won't need to configure a controller BIOS for JBOD, or for that matter -- the motherboard (if onboard controller offers port-multiplier). You only need drives configured in AHCI mode to use StableBit.

 

[Namoi]

But in my set up, there is no motherboard involve ;-) it's just like an external hdd enclosure but with 5 hdds.
Hence my original question about which psu to use.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

But in my set up, there is no motherboard involve ;-) it's just like an external hdd enclosure but with 5 hdds.
Hence my original question about which psu to use.

I know that. My assumption is that you'd run an eSATA cable from a computer to the external box, or a USB connection. Looking at the port-multiplier, these are the only two connections you can make; you cannot just plug the box into a network with an RJ-45 tp-ethernet cable.

So it would either connect via USB3 directly to a computer, or connect via eSATA to either the onboard motherboard SATA controller or a PCI/PCI-E controller with a single SATA port with port-multiplier capability.

That's my take on it.

I'll be candid about my limited hardware experience with this. My own WHS server is fitted with two PCI-E 4-port controllers with Marvell controller chip. They are port-multiplier-ready. I can connect any three SATA internal HDDs, leaving a port that can connect to the port-multiplier device offering four more SATA ports -- for a total of 7 HDDs.

I only "looked into the possibility" briefly -- thinking I could put together the type of external assembly you indicate here. For instance, from one of my Marvell controllers, I would run an SATA-to-PCI/eSATA cable to the back of the PC, then run an eSATA cable to the external box and port multiplier input.

I am only GUESSING at this point that you don't NEED anything else if you use the USB3 option. You'd just run a USB3 A-to-B cable to the port-multiplier for your external box.

I don't think that excludes use of the software I indicated. Their tech-support only "discourages" using single-drive USB2 external devices as part of a drive pool for issues of reliability, but those are low-end power-supplies and USB converters. Connecting drives with the Addonics device via USB3 -- that's a horse of a different color, as would be an eSATA connection to a PC with some port-multiplier capability. I just rather doubt that onboard SATA controllers have that capability, but -- do the homework. The PCI-E controllers I mentioned are $60 items and "feature-rich."

 

[dave_the_nerd]

But in my set up, there is no motherboard involve ;-) it's just like an external hdd enclosure but with 5 hdds.
Hence my original question about which psu to use.

Any PSU will work - there are two pins on the ATX connector which you can short to make it work. Or you can just use one of those $2 PSU testers for the same result.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Any PSU will work - there are two pins on the ATX connector which you can short to make it work. Or you can just use one of those $2 PSU testers for the same result.

And . . . to redeem from my many digressions here . . . Addonics has both cases equipped with smaller PSUs, and the PSUs themselves.

The main thing: if the case you WANT to use fits an ATX unit, you can probably get a 250 or 350W ATX PSU and make it work that way, as dave_the_nerd says. But I'd at least scout around for a PS designed for that very purpose, rather than use the "green-wire" trick. Maybe the switch the OP linked will work, I can't say.

Are the items at Addonics overpriced? Who else sells port-multipliers? They've certainly found a niche for this sort of thing.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

This sounds like it's a lot more expensive and troublesome than just buying a DAS enclosure though.

http://www.amazon.com/Mediasonic-H82-SU3S2-ProBox-External-Enclosure/dp/B005GYDMYG

The Node 304 is over a hundred bucks by itself, and doesn't include the PSU or the electronics.

 

[Essence_of_War]

This sounds like it's a lot more expensive and troublesome than just buying a DAS enclosure though.

http://www.amazon.com/Mediasonic-H82-SU3S2-ProBox-External-Enclosure/dp/B005GYDMYG

The Node 304 is over a hundred bucks by itself, and doesn't include the PSU or the electronics.

Agree 100%.

Here's another option:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...rd_drive_enclosure-_-9SIA54G2GR4556-_-Product

5 drive bays. Supports JBOD. Has USB 3.0, firewire, and esata connectivity.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Agree 100%.

Here's another option:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...rd_drive_enclosure-_-9SIA54G2GR4556-_-Product

5 drive bays. Supports JBOD. Has USB 3.0, firewire, and esata connectivity.

I assume both of those boxes include the port-multiplier hardware, and I see the Media-sonic is explicit for having an "external power adapter." The addonics parts were the port-multiplier and power-supply -- What? lemme see . . $99 for the port-multiplier . . Their "Mini-Storage Tower" seems to include a 150W PSU, total priced at either $99 or $129.

Without concluding that the Addonics parts actually total less, it's sort of a wash.

Like I said, I was considering the same type of rig for myself. If I were even in a hurry, I'd give myself another few weeks to think about it. So -- I can't say . . . can't recommend . . . just contribute to the chatter. . . .

Right away, you can see the Mobius unit has nice hot-swap bays with little keyswitches -- that's a plus -- "includes integrated internal power supply."

The MediaSonic is a nice-looking unit with a single keyswitched door.

So Addonics = ~$230 -- no frills, but same capabilities
Mediasonic = ~$270
Mobius = an even $235

Count the features. They're all eSATA or USB3 connect-able. You'd think they'd all have the port-multiplier hardware. I'm guessing the RAID extras may not be part of the Addonics. Would that be right? Nope! It's also built into the port-multiplier, configurable by dip-switches.

Figure 5 HDDs are going to consume a maximum of <= 50W.

Collect some product PDF sheets, I say. . .

 

[Namoi]

This sounds like it's a lot more expensive and troublesome than just buying a DAS enclosure though.

http://www.amazon.com/Mediasonic-H82-SU3S2-ProBox-External-Enclosure/dp/B005GYDMYG

The Node 304 is over a hundred bucks by itself, and doesn't include the PSU or the electronics.

Yes you are right, it is much more expensive. I initially thought going on with an Icycube which has hot swa&p capability (but only 4 bays).
http://www.icydock.fr/goods.php?id=172
It also passed the WAF which is a must here as the box will seat under the TV.
The mediasonics while being great is oversized and not at all WAF compliant.

So why not choosing the icycube ?

Well TBH if i have to throw some old 500GB Hdds in it i would go that way, but it will old up to 24TB of datas with two hdds being backups.
I just don't trust the electronics of the unit. The PSU is integrated, it is not a brick so no way to substitute it and no way to know if it is a good one (users of this boxes reported problem on that matter); also in this kind of boxes the hdds cook themselves and the venting seems pretty weak (noisy too ?) for large Hdds.

Agree 100%.

Here's another option:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...rd_drive_enclosure-_-9SIA54G2GR4556-_-Product

5 drive bays. Supports JBOD. Has USB 3.0, firewire, and esata connectivity.

I didn't know this one. Looks pretty good and could possibly pass the WAF.
I will definitely have a look at it. Thanks

So Addonics = ~$230 -- no frills, but same capabilities
Mediasonic = ~$270
Mobius = an even $235
.

And the Icycube more or less 200$.

The addonics tower is a no way (not WAF - looks like my 15 years old mid tower with its plexiglass front cover).
Mediasonics -> same problem
Icycube -> I don't trust it on the long term.

So I will have a look at the Mobius which seems much more robust.

Thanks

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Yes you are right, it is much more expensive. I initially thought going on with an Icycube which has hot swa&p capability (but only 4 bays).
http://www.icydock.fr/goods.php?id=172
It also passed the WAF which is a must here as the box will seat under the TV.
The mediasonics while being great is oversized and not at all WAF compliant.

So why not choosing the icycube ?

Well TBH if i have to throw some old 500GB Hdds in it i would go that way, but it will old up to 24TB of datas with two hdds being backups.
I just don't trust the electronics of the unit. The PSU is integrated, it is not a brick so no way to substitute it and no way to know if it is a good one (users of this boxes reported problem on that matter); also in this kind of boxes the hdds cook themselves and the venting seems pretty weak (noisy too ?) for large Hdds.



I didn't know this one. Looks pretty good and could possibly pass the WAF.
I will definitely have a look at it. Thanks



And the Icycube more or less 200$.

The addonics tower is a no way (not WAF - looks like my 15 years old mid tower with its plexiglass front cover).
Mediasonics -> same problem
Icycube -> I don't trust it on the long term.

So I will have a look at the Mobius which seems much more robust.

Thanks

On closer inspection, it seems the total outlay for the Addonics is likely to be about $198 plus tax and shipping. You'd want the bare MST model, and you'd add the particular port-multiplier with the eSATA, USB 3.0 port and dip-switches.

But the Mobius has the well-built individual hot-swap bays and keyswitches.

Of course, it's like my elderly mother fretting over her 25-lb bag of navel-oranges -- never satisfied. I'm always saying "You can't judge an orange by its peel." But if the Mobius has hardware you can trust -- the port-multiplier and its features, the power-supply -- then it's "probably 'The One'".

LATER: JUst took a look at the Egg photo-gallery on that one. It's all ready to go. dual fan ventilation, PSU, ports -- the whole enchilada.

 

[Namoi]

Indeed.
I am collecting infos right now.
Will post them back here even if that post is sliding from psu to case&cooling ;-)

 

[Namoi]

A nice review here http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1765375

Only drawback and a BIG one.
Here they ask for 350&#8364; which is more or less 380 bucks ... much more that I'm ready to pay for just an empty box...
meh... I thought i was done with this...

 

[Essence_of_War]

Here they ask for 350€ which is more or less 380 bucks ... much more that I'm ready to pay for just an empty box...

Ah, are you buying in France? I didn't realize, or I wouldn't have posted newegg-US links.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

That's a pity. Why so expensive there? Any German resellers at lower prices? I wouldn't know about tariffs or shipping within the EU.

The review tips me to a different view than that promoted in the spec descriptions of the devices discussed so far, and it was probably the Mobius unit mildly forewarned to use NAS or Enterprise drives with TLER and other features. On the contrary, the review suggests one could use Black and Blue drives. I have a pile of those, just waiting to be redeployed.

ANOTHER THOUGHT: You said you already had the Addonics Port-Multiplier with eSATA and USB3. How much is the bare $99 MST Mini Storage Tower from Addonics if ordering in France? That's all you'd have to shell out on this project if you want it done, or can adjust the WAF aspect. Double check, but that solves your power-supply problem, even for being barebones.

 

[Namoi]

Ah, are you buying in France? I didn't realize, or I wouldn't have posted newegg-US links.

Yes I am :-( but no problem with newegg links. I just don't understand their shipping policy... they can ship to UK, poland... well countries without euros dollars conversion... i will see with a friend of mine in Seattle if i can take one unit with him, but it is not an easy piece of gear to pack in your luggage ;-)

 

[Namoi]

That's a pity. Why so expensive there? Any German resellers at lower prices? I wouldn't know about tariffs or shipping within the EU.

The review tips me to a different view than that promoted in the spec descriptions of the devices discussed so far, and it was probably the Mobius unit mildly forewarned to use NAS or Enterprise drives with TLER and other features. On the contrary, the review suggests one could use Black and Blue drives. I have a pile of those, just waiting to be redeployed.

ANOTHER THOUGHT: You said you already had the Addonics Port-Multiplier with eSATA and USB3. How much is the bare $99 MST Mini Storage Tower from Addonics if ordering in France? That's all you'd have to shell out on this project if you want it done, or can adjust the WAF aspect. Double check, but that solves your power-supply problem, even for being barebones.

Well i don't have the addoncs port ...yet as i was gathering infos, but even if the tower seems to be the ideal deal, i won't fight the WAF for this ;-)
Pitty i can't put this in a closet with a router pluged to my sadly unexistent cat6 network...

Thanks guys for supporting my hassle.

And forgive my french to english translation

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Well i don't have the addoncs port ...yet as i was gathering infos, but even if the tower seems to be the ideal deal, i won't fight the WAF for this ;-)
Pitty i can't put this in a closet with a router pluged to my sadly unexistent cat6 network...

Thanks guys for supporting my hassle.

And forgive my french to english translation

Something like this?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812228866&cm_re=USB3_25%27_cable-_-12-228-866-_-Product

I'd used USB2 extender/powered cables -- or still do. Never thought to attempt using them with a storage device. Somebody might know if this is going to be troublesome. But it's an option if you want to hide something from your living-room or entertainment area.

Something like the MST's -- I'd think you could dress it up without restricting airflow. Do they really look that bad?

 

[Namoi]

LOL as they say :-D problem rise when you want to... hide the cable ;-)

I will have to make the jump and pull some cat6 in my hardline phone lines... just a litlle afraid to have them break in the process as my electrician said ;-)