Recommend headphones for my needs

[IHateMyJob2004]

As said, many headphones, even up to $2800 (yeah, you heard that right) don't require an amp, nor even benefit from one.

You'll most likely get more details or... what-have-you from changing to a DAC, but that is if your current one sucks majorly. The difference between a $2000 headphone and a $500 headphone is actually astoundingly minor.

And yeah, I've heard them.

Just put my M50s up to an amp for the first time today. Just a cheap $50 one. The bass response is like night and day. Co-worker used the amp on his $280 audio techinias and he had the same comment. Sounds is like night and day.

The impedence on many higher priced headphones simply make the low end undrivable by things like smartphones.

Simple point that shatters your misconceptins. Amplifiers at low levels create very small amounts of background static noise. At highest levels, it gets very bad. But it tends to get exponetially worse. If you set your volume on your smartphone to a level just under thepoint where static noise comes into play and then amp that externally, you will be providing your headphones with a much cleaner signal.

Your comment about the D/A converter I do agree with 100%.

Point is, no D/A and no amp means the OP is wasting money that could be best spent elsewhere. I could get better sound of of SD-60s or HD280s (both under $100) after mating them to a $50 headphone amp. Total cost of $150 trumps $300. Do you disagree? Or the M50s I have with amp for $200. Or a $100 bithead amp with M50s for a total cost of $250. Still under $300 for cans that will not be allowed to show off what they can do (unless you amp them).

 

[HeXen]

I got an amp. Fiio Eko7 or something like that. It's a very clean sound at least, didn't do much for bass until i used it's built in EQ...better than nothing, likely the best i'm gonna do with HP's. Not sure if it uses the "psychoaccoustics" missing fundemental technique or not, but it'll have to do.
Honestly, with or without the amp hooked to my ipad, using the Ultrasones hd-780's...minus the EQ...didn't change anything that stood out to me, i doubt i'll ever hear anything that makes me say wow that i used to think was possible.
Will get Fiio's PC amp for gaming which also has a dock for the E07k, then i'll decide if i'll get another HP or not.
Maybe one day i'll try a more expensive amp, but fearful i wouldn't hear the price's worth.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

If you have an E07K, you've already got a very capable pocket amp. Also, Ultrasone is pretty much the top end of hip-hop can's as far as mixing a bass-biased can with good sonic qualities in the rest of the hearing range. The Ultrasone PRO 900 takes that a step further (I've heard both and the 900 is definitely an improvement).

That being said, if you're looking for more bass still you won't find it in an Ultrasone product What you're asking for simply does not exist (at this time) in a can that has the sonic qualities of something like an Ultrasone 780. At this point, you're requesting too much of a single diaphragm.

So you've got two options from here. Reduce your requirements to include over-ear cans (that give better bass response), and get the M-Audio Q40 for $100, or get the Sony XB700 for $250-$300. Both sound best with an amp (and you've already got one with plenty of power).

The other option is to go into an entirely different direction and get some in ear monitors that are bass focused. The sound is different, but you can get "car-audio" levels of bass in them if they're custom made. I use a pair of Ultimate Ears Super.fi 5 EB's in a custom mould and the result is a huge amount of bass that you just can't get out of a can. But the cost would be at least $500 and is well out of your budget.

On either option tweak out the EQ to max and you're literally getting the max amount of bass that current technology can offer you in a headphone. I'm sorry there aren't any *perfect* options out there for you, but understand that what you're asking for is several magnitudes beyond not only current headphone technology, but also far beyond normal sound quality, which is what the average person plunking down for $300 for headphones wants At that much bass, you pretty much *have* to sacrifice everything else to get it. And there aren't that many options available at that point except the Sony XB700's, which have made a famous / infamous reputation (depending on your side of the fence) for trying to fill the niche you're in. They use giant 50mm drivers and place excursion and air displacement above all else. What you get is something that can do a 10Hz tone with ease. The bass is dirty, and the rest of the sound frequencies are downright muddy compared to high end Ultrasones, but it will get you as close to the bass you're desiring as you can get.

Good luck.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

I just wanted to add to the before that *at this moment* I'm listening to Wiz Khalifa's "Hustlin'" on my home setup. This is a Schiit BiFrost DAC, hooked to a Schiit Valhalla amplifier, which goes to my "fun" cans, which are a pair of Ultrasone PRO 900's. I have the volume on the tube amp half-way up and am literally at my limit. I can feel my ear drums vibrating from the bass and its borderline painful. This is with no EQ applied.

So 2 more things to say. Ultrasone headphones are *notorious* for being placement picky. Due to having the S-Logic layout, the drivers are not centered in the cups, and placement is *extremely* important for the correct sound. You ears should be placed like this:

From Head-fi:

Unfortunately, the literature provided in the Ultrasone packaging contains very little useful direction about correct positioning. This sketch, however, from a white-paper by Ultrasone designer, Dr. Florian M. König...

...illustrates the optimal positioning of the ear in relation to the driver, specific to the Ultrasone S-Logic design.

Here, we discover the reasoning behind Ultrasone's recommendation to wear the headphones with the headband directly across the centered top of the head, without any tilt either forwards or backwards as one might be inclined to wear more conventional headphones.

My experience at meets has shown me that there is a tendency for people (trying out Ultrasones for the first time) to wear the headphones with the rear of the ear-cup positioned flush against the back curvature of the outer ear. (Indeed, perhaps they are accustomed to heeding Dr. Meier's advice as above.)

Since Ultrasone has already incorporated this into their design, such an adjustment is unnecessary and ultimately detrimental to the sound quality. With ears sitting flush against the rear of the pads, the soundstage collapses somewhat and the timbres lose some vibrancy. And vocals can sound distant. So this could be the cause behind some users’ reports of midrange imbalance.

But, as we can see from the illustration, the "sweet spot" is attained by positioning the ears just a few millimeters more centrally into the cup. And since everyone's ears are uniquely sized and shaped, each listener needs to learn to locate this "sweet spot" for themselves.

The second, is to consider seeing an audiologist for a professional ear cleaning and possibly a hearing test. If you are constantly unimpressed by bass even from large systems, then you may have what's essentially a near-crystalline, hardened plug of ear wax against your ear drum, which should be carefully removed by a professional. The difference can be literally night and day. It also lets you play music at safer listening volumes

 

[hans030390]

Most Ultrasones are known to measure pretty poorly. I don't buy into their claims.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Most Ultrasones are known to measure pretty poorly. I don't buy into their claims.

I wouldn't be surprised since your own description is engimatic at best. What do you mean by "measure pretty poorly"? If you want something that is great for dance, hip-hop, and jazz, you would be hard pressed to find something that measures better for its price given its characteristic clear, heavy bass and treble emphasis.

If by "measure poorly" you mean a flat line, then I wouldn't be surprised, since Ultrasone doesn't market this headphone as neutral at all, and almost any audio reviewing authority recognizes this as well

If you want *really* flat, then shell out the money for some Audeze LCD-3's and good money for something like a Schiit Lyr (just a suggestion) that can drive something as power-hungry as an orthodynamic.

If you want something that "measure's poorly" but in the opposite direction, look at Grados, which are known to be extremely treble biased on almost every single one of their models. Beyers are also very treble biased on the majority of their cans, with an Ultrasone-like "U" shape on their lower models like the DT770.

Or be more specific in what you mean by "measures poorly"

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

FWIW, I am thinking about getting a bithead to mate to my M50s within the nexst month. atters if my BB10 phone will output audio via USB.

 

[HeXen]

Never makes it easier when some mention some brands, another says no then mentions others, on and on. lol
What i really need is a multi band EQ, of course i don't always have the option of a software one, as why i wanted cans with some emphasis on the lower regions of sound.
Beats do have a following in being known for their distortion free emphasis on bass, i'll see if my local BB has a set to demo.

Now my car for example is a different story. I have a psychoacoustics processor to bring the bass up front easier and with a little tuning, even metal bands like Megadeth bring some sonic punch to the sound that the original recording just completely lacked...and no my shit don't rattle outside or go bbboooommm, bbboooommm, it's just booom, booom but with higher emphasis...a similar effect is what i'd like to find at home, but often i don't have the right EQ frequencies to adjust. The pocket amp i got just seems to boost the typical 100hz area, quite lame as that is a very muddy region to increase.
Now i have a music player on ipad called EQer with an amazing EQ, however only works with the songs i have on it leaving out all my internet radio which is what i listen to the most.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Beats is basically Bose. Not saying it's bad, your just going to pay twice as much as you should.

What cans you get depends on what music you listen to. It is hard to beat the SR-60s for bass response (it is slightly exaggerated) but they sound as smooth as butter. They run $80 or so. And you don't need an amp for them!

 

[mrrman]

Sennnheisser ones are nice...the wireless ones look sick but they are expensive

 

[runawayprisoner]

Just put my M50s up to an amp for the first time today. Just a cheap $50 one. The bass response is like night and day. Co-worker used the amp on his $280 audio techinias and he had the same comment. Sounds is like night and day.

The impedence on many higher priced headphones simply make the low end undrivable by things like smartphones.

By that, I suspect you're "bass-boosting", which is a form of EQ, not as a result of the amp.

An amplifier's job is simply to amplify the signal, and just that. It should not add any unnecessary sound characteristics. If it does, then it's an EQ. It looks like you have a hybrid EQ-amp combo rather than just an amp.

...What you're asking for simply does not exist (at this time) in a can that has the sonic qualities of something like an Ultrasone 780. At this point, you're requesting too much of a single diaphragm.

Actually... there is one can that would fit the description, but I'm very certain it'll blow the OP's budget out of the water.

Check the Audio Technica ATH-ES10.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Never makes it easier when some mention some brands, another says no then mentions others, on and on. lol
What i really need is a multi band EQ, of course i don't always have the option of a software one, as why i wanted cans with some emphasis on the lower regions of sound.
Beats do have a following in being known for their distortion free emphasis on bass, i'll see if my local BB has a set to demo.

Now my car for example is a different story. I have a psychoacoustics processor to bring the bass up front easier and with a little tuning, even metal bands like Megadeth bring some sonic punch to the sound that the original recording just completely lacked...and no my shit don't rattle outside or go bbboooommm, bbboooommm, it's just booom, booom but with higher emphasis...a similar effect is what i'd like to find at home, but often i don't have the right EQ frequencies to adjust. The pocket amp i got just seems to boost the typical 100hz area, quite lame as that is a very muddy region to increase.
Now i have a music player on ipad called EQer with an amazing EQ, however only works with the songs i have on it leaving out all my internet radio which is what i listen to the most.

No matter what EQ you have, you can't play it if your headphones can't play it loudly enough.

If you're looking for a portable parametric EQ designed for sub-emphasis, then check out the DigiZoid ZO2.3 EQ/Amp. http://www.digizoid.com/zo/index.html

For $120 its considered to pull some magic with headphones in giving a rich, heavy bass response. I had one but found any setting above flat to be completely overwhelming with my Pro 900s.

As for the suggestion to the ES10's, they are very capable, and I loved them I found the bass to be a little more even in the lower ranges than the PRO 900s, but have to say that if you're not happy with the 780's, the 900's and ES10's are only a marginal improvement and you probably won't find what you're looking for in either of them

If you want an EQ, then get an EQ, and I think the ZO2 would help fit that bill. Keep in mind though that just like you can't have good full range sound without multiple speakers, your ear drum also will have trouble with high sound fidelity if its overwhelmed having to flap when receiving high levels of a bass. If you *like* the sound,t hat's 100% what matters the most Just listen safely!

 

[HeXen]

Beats is basically Bose. Not saying it's bad, your just going to pay twice as much as you should.

If you're satisfied with the product, then it's irrelevant. I have 2 Bose HP's which of all the cans i have ever owned, i liked the most.
Probably paid too much for my car too, but i love it :wub: Just like buying Mac's, sometimes there is more to the products one may like than just hardware specs.

No matter what EQ you have, you can't play it if your headphones can't play it loudly enough.

If you're looking for a portable parametric EQ designed for sub-emphasis, then check out the DigiZoid ZO2.3 EQ/Amp. http://www.digizoid.com/zo/index.html

For $120 its considered to pull some magic with headphones in giving a rich, heavy bass response. I had one but found any setting above flat to be completely overwhelming with my Pro 900s.

As for the suggestion to the ES10's, they are very capable, and I loved them I found the bass to be a little more even in the lower ranges than the PRO 900s, but have to say that if you're not happy with the 780's, the 900's and ES10's are only a marginal improvement and you probably won't find what you're looking for in either of them

If you want an EQ, then get an EQ, and I think the ZO2 would help fit that bill. Keep in mind though that just like you can't have good full range sound without multiple speakers, your ear drum also will have trouble with high sound fidelity if its overwhelmed having to flap when receiving high levels of a bass. If you *like* the sound,t hat's 100% what matters the most Just listen safely!

That got less than specatcular reviews and it's EQ'ing is essentially the same

 

[thecoolnessrune]

That got less than specatcular reviews and it's EQ'ing is essentially the same

That's correct! It gets rough reviews especially from the audio gurus because it's essentially a bass booster, and in a world where reviews are based around how flat of a response you can generate, its a bit off Also be sure to separate reviews of the ZO2.3 from the ZO1, ZO2.1, and ZO2.2.

Otherwise, you may need to clarify your OP in what you're wanting. You're not wanting anything else to stick in your pocket, you're wanting the headphones to not be too big, and you're wanting them to be driven from portable devices without an amp. At the same time, you don't want specific headphone suggestions. I'm not sure what you want anymore!

 

[HeXen]

well if people disagree about suggestions, then it's not very helpful. I saw far more disagreemnts at the AVS forums for this same question, so that left me to square one. As i said i decided to get the amp and it's fine, i don't think i'm hearing anything that i didn't without it but meh.
I checked out some Beats at BB last night, i really liked the sound and they certainly don't look or feel cheap like many others but despite what some people like to say about them they are still typical audiophile, flatter sound with slight emphasis to bass as their signiture so i'll probably grab those. I noticed many people on the AVS forum did a horrible job describing them as if they never tried them...likely jumping on the bashing bandwagon as with any mainstream audio product.
thanks for the insights

 

[Oyeve]

Sony MDR-v700DJ.