Recievers crossover vs Subs Crossover

[Goosemaster]

I will be disscussing just what I want to do with my equipment but since a assume people here have better equipment, please at least try to see if the essence of my proposal might work.


I have an:
- Onky0 Tx-sr600 Reciever/Amp
- Mirage Frx-5 fronts
- Athena AS-p400 subwoofer connected via the LFE output


Now when configuring it, my reciever only allows a crossover freq. between 80Hz and 120hz. That is simply to high for me as I know hte speakers can handle down to 45hz.

On the suwoofer, the adjustable crossover is from around 40hz to 120hz, but if the reciever is filtering out everything under 80 for the sub, and I set it to a reasonable 45hz i miss a lot of the sound. Keeping the sub at 80hz emphasizes a lot of sounds that sound better on my speakers instead.

Basically I am interested in routing my speakers through the sub and using its internal crossover, but I am hesitant as I do not know how the quality will compare with my reciever.

 

[virtuamike]

I say forget about the receiver's crossover and run your fronts at full-range. Use your sub's internal crossover and set it to 50. Does it really bother you that much that your fronts are playing below 45? Are they distorting from playing too low? If not, just let your fronts run full. Tune your system by ear, not by numbers.

If you really want to run your fronts through the sub's crossover then go for it, the sub's adjustable crossover is higher quality than your receiver's. Personally, I wouldn't do it because I use my system more for HT (5.1), so I have to keep front and sub on seperate channels. But if all you do is listen to music (2.1), it wouldn't hurt to try running the fronts off the sub's crossover.

 

[orion7144]

That is a pretty good reciever. I have that reciever and I picked it over the HK and Yamaha. It replaced my Sony and the sound quality improved dramaticaly using the same speakers. I'm not sure about your fronts but mine have built in pwrd subs that have thier own crossover and I can tell you that 80 on the Onkyo is plenty low enough. With the HT systems you want you lower freqs going to your seperate sub anyway. The LFE from movies only goes to that output. Music on the other hand is different (of course). I choose to use the NEO setting for everything other than movies and it sounds outstanding.

Fronts Ar PS428's (I think thats the model)
Center AR
rears Klipsch (SP)
2X AR 12" subs

Here

 

[Goosemaster]

What I meant was that the speakers(fllorstanders) are only handling things down to 80hz, when I know they can adaquately handle frequencies down to 45hz. THe thing is coming from the speakers, frequencies above 45hz sound better so that is why I wanted to route sound through the sub.

 

[virtuamike]

What I mean is how do you know your speakers don't do a good job playing below 45? Do they distort? Can you hear a difference in your speakers when playing full range as compared to cutting out everything below 45? It won't hurt to play them full-range, that's what I'm trying to say. And it won't hurt to have your sub playing 45 and below at the same time your speakers are handling those same frequencies, because your sub will overpower your fronts in that range.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: virtuamike
What I mean is how do you know your speakers don't do a good job playing below 45? Do they distort? Can you hear a difference in your speakers when playing full range as compared to cutting out everything below 45? It won't hurt to play them full-range, that's what I'm trying to say. And it won't hurt to have your sub playing 45 and below at the same time your speakers are handling those same frequencies, because your sub will overpower your fronts in that range.

No, I want the cutoff frequency to be 45hz for the speakers.

the speakers have a range of 40Hz-22KHz so I would like to make use of that. Then I would like the sub to take care of everything below that.

 

[Goosemaster]

Nevermind.

"If you want to use the crossover in the sub you will need to connect your speakers to your sub. That's right IF you have speaker inputs and ouputs on your sub you can put the sub inbetween the path from the receiver and speakers. So you would run speaker cables from your receiver to the inputs on your sub and the crossover inside it will filter out the bass at the setting you desire and then connect the speakers to the sub using the speaker outs provided. You would also have to set the speakers to large in the receiver. Just to let you know it is probably best that you leave everything the way it is 80Hz is a very good crossover setting if your speakers only go to 72Hz. Generally what they mean when the measure frequency response the 72Hz is played 3db quieter than everything else so you'd actually probably notice a decrease in bass if you did this setup because your sub will play the bass louder than your speakers will. My speaker go down to about 35Hz and my XO (crossover) is set at 80Hz because my sub will play the bass cleaner tighter and it will take a load off of not only my speakers but also the receiver becuase it no longer has to amplify the low frequencies which are the hardest to amplify and this will give it more headroom. I think most people will agree with me when I say this. "

 

[orion7144]

But that is not how it works per se. If you plug your speakers into your sub you will be loosing alot of imaging. Also as for running your speaker out from the reciever to the sub, the amplifier is still amplifing those freqs and then the sub is clipping them. Just make sure that if your fronts are floor standing that the Onkyo setup is set to large. BIG NOTE There is a setup feature that most people (you may have already found it) don't know about. Its called (I believe) Inteli Volume. By default this is set mid range. It is used to make each input sound the same level when switching from IP to IP. When I cranked mine up to +12db on my IP's it clearly defined the sound much better and louder.

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
Nevermind.

"If you want to use the crossover in the sub you will need to connect your speakers to your sub. That's right IF you have speaker inputs and ouputs on your sub you can put the sub inbetween the path from the receiver and speakers. So you would run speaker cables from your receiver to the inputs on your sub and the crossover inside it will filter out the bass at the setting you desire and then connect the speakers to the sub using the speaker outs provided. You would also have to set the speakers to large in the receiver. Just to let you know it is probably best that you leave everything the way it is 80Hz is a very good crossover setting if your speakers only go to 72Hz. Generally what they mean when the measure frequency response the 72Hz is played 3db quieter than everything else so you'd actually probably notice a decrease in bass if you did this setup because your sub will play the bass louder than your speakers will. My speaker go down to about 35Hz and my XO (crossover) is set at 80Hz because my sub will play the bass cleaner tighter and it will take a load off of not only my speakers but also the receiver becuase it no longer has to amplify the low frequencies which are the hardest to amplify and this will give it more headroom. I think most people will agree with me when I say this. "

 

[orion7144]

BTW it took me 2 weeks to get it to sound the way I wanted it to. Out of the box it still sounded better than my Sony. As I read the manual and found more adjustments it just kept getting better and better.

 

[glen]

It is likely better to cross your front speakers over at 80hz.
You are almost always better off with one source producing sound under 80hz because with 2 you will get both constructive and destructive interferance.
In fact it is hard to imagine even a theoretical situation where you would be better off with your fronts playing sound below 80hz.