Reasons for x2 3800 greatness? what about 4400?

[zkaudio]

I've lurked these forums for years and am building yet another pc. I run a music production studio and am curious about the reason behind the high praise over the x2 3800. In my trade, there is no question that dual core is a necessity... I am a bit confused, however, on one point here. The 3800 rocks, no question... but does it rock because it's the most affordable in the x2 line? Or does it have some feature that actually makes it a better buy than say a 4400 x2 (which has twice the cache). I need a fairly powerful computer and am looking at the 4gb ram range with a 4400x2 processor and over 2tb of storage. The price point on the 3800 is much more in my budget, but I'd splurge for a recognizable performance gain.

So to sum it up... is the 3800 godly for some particular reason? Or if I can afford the 4400, should I go for it instead? The 2x1mb cache seems like it will yield a significant performance gain over the 2x512 on the 3800 chip... I will overclock it if it's an easy process, but am not willing to sacrifice stability...Is there maybe a multiplier benefit on the 3800 that makes it a better cpu? So which is a better buy considering my situation?

thank you in advance, I am ready to purchase this dang thing, as I am still mixing on an xp1900.

 

[stealthshadow]

I have seen many benchmarks, and the 4400 is no doubt much better. If you can afford it get it, or you can get the 4200 (i have this one, and its great). If I were you Id atleast get the 4200 but if you can go for the 4400.

 

[StrangerGuy]

3800+ is (much?) cheaper than 4400+, and overclocks better IIRC, and the extra cache gives only a little performance boost.

Plus if you want 1MB of cache per core, there is a cheaper overclockable alternative: Opteron 165

 

[d3lt4]

most people on this forum like the 3800 because it is the cheapest and then they just overclock it to higher speeds. So I guess it is the best bang for buck cpu, so no it is not godly or anything. just cheapest for the best performance for gaming and stuff like that. In your case go with 4200 or higher.

 

[Bobthelost]

The added cache isn't all that much of an improvement. Also they tend to OC to around the same speeds as the 3800 so for what is in practice often just 1-3% of difference you're spending a lot more money. Gaming and 3d rendering generally profit from the added cache, whilst most apps like photoshop don't get a thing. In which case you'd just be wasting money goting for the added cache over that of the 4200.

The 3800X2 rocks because it's the cheapest X2 around, overclocks well and even at stock thrashes most of the intel lineup for gaming (what this place is most interested in).

One more thing, are you sure you need 4gb RAM? There is a slowdown related to using 4 sticks of RAM, it's not worth worrying about if you do need more than 2gb, but if you've got 4 sticks in the machine at once and your peak useage is 1.5gb you're just slowing it down for no reason.

 

[stevty2889]

Like the others said, the main reason the 3800+ X2 is so popular, is because it's the least expensive AMD dual core, and overclocks well. The extra cahce of the 4400+ will make a small differance in some applications, and no differance in others. For the most part, the extra cache isn't worth the extra cost.

 

[zkaudio]

btw, music editting software is highly cpu intensive... and vst/rta/dx plugins are ramhogs like you would not believe... Is the 4gb slowdown only with 4 sticks? Does this even occur in dual channel situations? Also, what if I got 2 sticks at 2 gigs each... still slow? I have vst's that run independently of everything else that need almost 1.2 gigs of ram alone...

 

[Bobthelost]

The ram slowdown is for 4 sticks, i don't know of any 2GB sticks around at the moment, but that doesn't mean they don't exist in which case 2x2GB would be optimum for you.

If you use more than 2GB of RAM then jsut bite the bullet and get 4 sticks, the speed increase from not having to use the RAM will more than counter the slower speed (which you'd never notice anyway).

 

[LittleNemoNES]

remember windows doesnt recognize more than 3 GB -- the 64 bit version does, however -- up to a bagillion gigs.

 

[HardWarrior]

I've never seen a 3800 X2 in action, so I can't say how it compares to what I have. However, I am very pleased with my 4400, both at the desktop and for high-end gaming.

 

[Nick5324]

Originally posted by: gersson
remember windows doesnt recognize more than 3 GB

Well, sort of
64 bit WinXP supports up to 128GB of RAM, IIRC.

 

[harobikes333]

most bang for your buck.

 

[bob4432]

for your situation i would do a retail opty 165 as it has a 2x1MB cache, a better stock hsf which by itself should give you a slightly better o/c than the standard 3800 hsf combo and the otperons are server cpus, meaning they are the best of the best. it is 2x1.8GHz but see no reason why you shouldn't get it to 2.4+ very easily. my opty 144 (single core 1.8GHz) does 2.5GHz on stock V and it is prime95, memtest and superpi stable.

also, yes there is a slight speed decrese when going with 4 sticks vs 2stick, but it is much better than having the machine hit the pagefile. i would say that if you compared 2GB with 2x1GB and 4x512 you may hit at max 10% of a decrease with the 4 sticks, but if you just stayed with 2GB and then hit the pagefile all the time you will have a huge performance decrease.

going with 4x1GB is about your only option.

also you may want to considering that what you are doing. you say that the program needs a tons of cpu cycles, you may want to do a dual-dual setup. meaning dual core, dual processors. this would require a server m/b and the otperon 2xx series(whichever they #'s are for dual cores) but will give you a quad core rig. price is going to go up pretty high with this setup as you will need either registered and/or ecc ram too.

also assuming you will be running a raid 5 setup for that much hdd space?

 

[alimoalem]

Originally posted by: zkaudio
I need a fairly powerful computer and am looking at the 4gb ram range with a 4400x2 processor and over 2tb of storage. The price point on the 3800 is much more in my budget, but I'd splurge for a recognizable performance gain.

you have over $1000 in storage and you're saying the x2 3800 better fits your budget?? jk man

about the ram, there are 2gb sticks but they cost like $400 each cause no one buys them. i'd just get 2x1gig for now and see how that fares.

i would take the opty165 as bob said but the x2 3800 isn't a bad overclocker. i wouldn't get the 4200 though. if you really want the cache and not to get an opteron cpu, either get the x2 3800 or 4400. the 4200 is like $60 for a 200MHz increase over the x2 3800 and the 3800's easily hit 2.4. it's your choice really. seeing how you're coming from a x1900, i'm sure either will be a huge increase in performance.

 

[LiquidImpulse]

Originally posted by: alimoalem

Originally posted by: zkaudio
I need a fairly powerful computer and am looking at the 4gb ram range with a 4400x2 processor and over 2tb of storage. The price point on the 3800 is much more in my budget, but I'd splurge for a recognizable performance gain.

you have over $1000 in storage and you're saying the x2 3800 better fits your budget?? jk man

about the ram, there are 2gb sticks but they cost like $400 each cause no one buys them. i'd just get 2x1gig for now and see how that fares.

i would take the opty165 as bob said but the x2 3800 isn't a bad overclocker. i wouldn't get the 4200 though. if you really want the cache and not to get an opteron cpu, either get the x2 3800 or 4400. the 4200 is like $60 for a 200MHz increase over the x2 3800 and the 3800's easily hit 2.4. it's your choice really. seeing how you're coming from a x1900, i'm sure either will be a huge increase in performance.

hits the spot dead on.

 

[zkaudio]

just found an opty 165 for 280 shipped... so any help for a mobo? Overclocking will definitely be necessary here, and also a ram recommendation? There is some pretty nice timing gskill on the egg right now for cheap.

I'm thinking

p180 case (it is the quietest i assume if not then my choice will change)
3 300gb 7200.9 16mb sata3g hd's - sgate
various external drives
2 x (2x1gb) gskill PC3200...timings are: 2.5-3-3-6. (good?)

what I need help with...

-best mobo for ocing and stability? Onboard audio not necessary but sata3g and raid5 support a plus. good chipset a must

-is my ram going to suffice for oc'ing? I'm a crucial guy, no experience with gskill

-what is the absolute best heatsink/fan setup for ocing this processor that will also be near silent?

-best vid card that supports dual dvi but that won't hinder my case noise factor or suck too much power (probably pci-e is best option)

-are there any cases that are betterlooking and quieter than p180? from real experience... Thanks in advance you guys save my *ss constantly.

 

[NaOH]

Overclocks well is what I have to say about the 3800. 5mins in the bios and I'm rocking a 400Mhz overclock with stock HSF. Hope it can go higher, been stable so far.Opty 165 is definitely a recommended one too.

 

[alimoalem]

zkaudio, that 2.5-3-3-6 ram, is it the g.skill value ram that costs $145? if you're going for a crazy overclock, it's not bad but the CAS 2 g.skill ram would probably be a bit better. it's about $100 per gig i think. but running a divider isn't bad if you get the value ram

about the motherboard, i would say get the DFI Ultra-D. I think it's around $115. DFI's aren't too newbie friendly all the time but there's a lot of help you can get from DFI's forum and the overclocking forum here on Anandtech.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: alimoalem
zkaudio, that 2.5-3-3-6 ram, is it the g.skill value ram that costs $145? if you're going for a crazy overclock, it's not bad but the CAS 2 g.skill ram would probably be a bit better. it's about $100 per gig i think. but running a divider isn't bad if you get the value ram

about the motherboard, i would say get the DFI Ultra-D. I think it's around $115. DFI's aren't too newbie friendly all the time but there's a lot of help you can get from DFI's forum and the overclocking forum here on Anandtech.

be careful with a dfi since reliability is a huge issue. honestly, i don't think you need the dfi as it is meant for the extreme o/cer and is ram finicky. you may want to look into the asrock 939sli32-esata2 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813157087

does raid 5 and uli makes a d@mn good chipset. also it has external sata connectors which will be nice for you for all the external hdds you will want to add. although i don't know how it will o/c it will probably make a decent, stable o/cer like the other asrock boards have. also asrock is part of asus.

as far as the ram, just get the value stuff and run a divider, the performance hit is not worth the $$$.

as far as heatsink, i would get a thermalright xp90 with a 92mm fan of your choice, the one that is copper and aluminium. also, i would not recommend these items unless i wold buy them myself. you should be able to get 2.4GHz extremely stable pretty easy with the 165.

 

[robertk2012]

Originally posted by: bob4432

Originally posted by: alimoalem
zkaudio, that 2.5-3-3-6 ram, is it the g.skill value ram that costs $145? if you're going for a crazy overclock, it's not bad but the CAS 2 g.skill ram would probably be a bit better. it's about $100 per gig i think. but running a divider isn't bad if you get the value ram

about the motherboard, i would say get the DFI Ultra-D. I think it's around $115. DFI's aren't too newbie friendly all the time but there's a lot of help you can get from DFI's forum and the overclocking forum here on Anandtech.

be careful with a dfi since reliability is a huge issue. honestly, i don't think you need the dfi as it is meant for the extreme o/cer and is ram finicky. you may want to look into the asrock 939sli32-esata2 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813157087

does raid 5 and uli makes a d@mn good chipset. also it has external sata connectors which will be nice for you for all the external hdds you will want to add. although i don't know how it will o/c it will probably make a decent, stable o/cer like the other asrock boards have. also asrock is part of asus.

as far as the ram, just get the value stuff and run a divider, the performance hit is not worth the $$$.

as far as heatsink, i would get a thermalright xp90 with a 92mm fan of your choice, the one that is copper and aluminium. also, i would not recommend these items unless i wold buy them myself. you should be able to get 2.4GHz extremely stable pretty easy with the 165.

Did you just reccomend a asrock over a DFI?

 

[jpotter]

Also, with the P180 make sure that your PSU choice has cables that are long enough to run through the giant chassis- I've heard some frustrating stories of people having to swap their PSU just because the cables don't reach- other than that it's apparently a very nice case though!

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: robertk2012

Originally posted by: bob4432

Originally posted by: alimoalem
zkaudio, that 2.5-3-3-6 ram, is it the g.skill value ram that costs $145? if you're going for a crazy overclock, it's not bad but the CAS 2 g.skill ram would probably be a bit better. it's about $100 per gig i think. but running a divider isn't bad if you get the value ram

about the motherboard, i would say get the DFI Ultra-D. I think it's around $115. DFI's aren't too newbie friendly all the time but there's a lot of help you can get from DFI's forum and the overclocking forum here on Anandtech.

be careful with a dfi since reliability is a huge issue. honestly, i don't think you need the dfi as it is meant for the extreme o/cer and is ram finicky. you may want to look into the asrock 939sli32-esata2 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813157087

does raid 5 and uli makes a d@mn good chipset. also it has external sata connectors which will be nice for you for all the external hdds you will want to add. although i don't know how it will o/c it will probably make a decent, stable o/cer like the other asrock boards have. also asrock is part of asus.

as far as the ram, just get the value stuff and run a divider, the performance hit is not worth the $$$.

as far as heatsink, i would get a thermalright xp90 with a 92mm fan of your choice, the one that is copper and aluminium. also, i would not recommend these items unless i wold buy them myself. you should be able to get 2.4GHz extremely stable pretty easy with the 165.

Did you just reccomend a asrock over a DFI?

for the ops needs yes.

 

[randomlinh]

who is ASRock anyway? I remember hearing they were known as another company or they bought out a known manufac... can't remember right now. But that board looks like everything I would want and cheap to boot!

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: randomlinh
who is ASRock anyway? I remember hearing they were known as another company or they bought out a known manufac... can't remember right now. But that board looks like everything I would want and cheap to boot!

i was told they were affiliated with asus, but i can't locate that atm. they made a pretty huge impression being the only manf that made a skt939 pci-e and agp board that actually worked, which was a very nice upgrade board - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813157081

the board i linked to above got some good reviews from anandtech.