Really old thread somebody bumped.

[Munky]

LOL, rollo getting owned :laugh:

lets not forget this one-

rollo 2004:
PVP doesnt work? Who cares! Gf6 are awesome cards, just be glad you got one and get on with your lives.
<mandatory :roll:>

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Well one is $1-$5, the other is... $100... which do you expect to be better?

Whats $1 again? The AIW X800XT is cheaper than the non-AIW counterpart, so its better and cheaper and unmatched, maybe I'm missing your point though. The AIW 9700 also continues to be a great card itself certainly better all around, and much more feature packed than that VIVO even if not quite as fast in gaming performance. ATI and its partners offer VIVO cards as well, in likely more models that Nvidia's partners considering none of the 6800 cards feature it.

I do remember you trying to capture video game from TV-output to analog input if thats what you're talking about Acanthus? I agree, and remember that it gave you fits, but hardly a standard use, and falls under YMMV (not to say that you didn't have legit issues, as I'm quite sure you did have them)

Next, I expect Ben will be linking a Matrox Parhelia as his "way better multimedia card" to prove Nvidia > ATI. Good Grief you guys :roll:

That was actually on a dead Ti4200 with vivo that i was having the problems with(turns out the TVout actually didnt work right, had to RMA). The AIW9700 issues were mainly buggy drivers.

I wasnt aware of the AIWX800XTs low price, usually ATi marks up all of their AIW cards by $100 over their normal cards. In this case youd be getting an all around good card for a solid price.

Generally in the nvidia boat VIVO is a free or near free addition to the cards, so i dont really expect as much as the heavy markup ATi usually has, was all i was saying.

 

[fstime]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
Rollo 2003:
We don't need shaders.
We don't need AA.
We don't need AF.
WOOT! Games cower at 1024x768 on third 5800U purchase.
Smack smack smack, oooh, aahh, shiney pipes!
We don't need resolutions over 1024x768.
Nobody cares about HL2 or Far Cry.

Rollo 2004:
AAx4 and AFx8 minimum.
1600x1200 minimum.
ATi will die because they don't support SM 3.0.
Look at my HL2 and Far Cry benchmarks, the most important games in the world.

Rollo 2005:
We don't need AA, AF or resolutions over 1024x768 as long as we can get soft shadows and HDR.

Interesting smack talk from a man who can't even dream of the settings I run at?

Based on your posts amusingly it appears I run higher settings than you. I'd actually be interested in hearing how many games you've played from start to finish in the last six months because it doesn't appear that you even know how to tweak your own hardware properly. I expect you spend your days installing new hardware and then posting on forums trying to convert the masses rather than actually using said hardware.

It's like giving car keys to someone without a license.

"I'll run whatever bargain basement card suits me at low res, as long as it doesn't need a fan

Bargain basement? A X800 XL is bargain basement? I guess a 6800 GT would be too then, eh? Yet I seem to remember you pimping a 6600GT SLI setup as viable and given that a faster single 6800GT is "bargain basement" what does that make your SLI setup?

Rollo 2004:
WOOT! 6600GT SLI is viable!

Rollo 2005:
6800GT is bargain basement.

Your nVidia dance is really comical Rollo. It's like you're the nVidia court Jester or something.

Hahaha, A+ post man.

 

[5150Joker]

Hey I got an idea, rather than argue about how great or crappy your cards are, put them to use and play some games - especially for those of you with SLI setups. If I could afford another 7800 GTX I'd be in BF 2 land 24/7. I'm beginning to think some of you get top end stuff just so you can come on these forums and brag about your huge e-penis.

 

[BFG10K]

I run all games at 19X14 4X TAA 8X if available.

Funny, I don't remember seeing your benchmarks to that effect. A recent development is it?

I've finished Unreal2, Tribes Vengeance, and Doom3 in the last 6 months.

Three games in six months? Wow, move over Fatal1ty. Better slow down, those cards are probably overheating. :roll:

That "proper tweaking" is rocket science BFG

It is to you. Apparently you still haven't figured out that cards since the original Radeon can do 16xAF at near-zero performance hit. Still, given it's taken you this long to discover resolutions above 1600x1200...well, maybe next year eh?

Compared to the 6800Ultra you gave up for it, the X800XL is "bargain basement".

I don't think so.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

I run all games at 19X14 4X TAA 8X if available.

Funny, I don't remember seeing your benchmarks to that effect. A recent development is it?

Came with the 7800SLI, so yeah, pretty recent? :roll: My benchmarks of HL2 at that setting are in my thread. The Far Cry benching tool I used doesn't support it, neither does Doom3 (AFAIK).

I've finished Unreal2, Tribes Vengeance, and Doom3 in the last 6 months.

Three games in six months? Wow, move over Fatal1ty. Better slow down, those cards are probably overheating. :roll:

The problem with your "logic" is that it doesn't take into account that I game daily. Here in America, we have no laws that say you have to finish games, like you seem to have down under. Yep, we're free to play one a few days, come back to it in a month, whatever.

That "proper tweaking" is rocket science BFG

It is to you. Apparently you still haven't figured out that cards since the original Radeon can do 16xAF at near-zero performance hit. Still, given it's taken you this long to discover resolutions above 1600x1200...well, maybe next year eh?

16X AF is not "free" and never has been. You running at diminished IQ "Performance" settings doesn't count, because upping the filtering while decreasing the detail sort of defeats the purpose. LOL- "Proper Tweaking" :roll:
LOL- I'll "limp along" at my 19X14 4X TAA 8X AF, while you're playing at 12X10 Performance settings. I think we know who's looking at better IQ.

Compared to the 6800Ultra you gave up for it, the X800XL is "bargain basement".

I don't think so.

[/quote]
You may not, but until a few weeks ago the 6800U was nVs flagship/best card. Where does your X800XL fall in the hierarchy? 5th? 6th? Let's see: X850XTPE>X850XT>X800XT PE>X800XT> X800XL.

$278 X800XL

$415 6800U, AMIR

Yah, you're climbing the video card hierarchy there. Seems to me you gave me a hard time for trying a 5800U for a couple months before the 6800s were available, because I'd stepped down from a 9800Pro. In your mind, I'm sure you don't think of this as a downward shift, but many would?

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Hey I got an idea, rather than argue about how great or crappy your cards are, put them to use and play some games - especially for those of you with SLI setups. If I could afford another 7800 GTX I'd be in BF 2 land 24/7. I'm beginning to think some of you get top end stuff just so you can come on these forums and brag about your huge e-penis.

Yep, that pretty much sums it up.

 

[rbV5]

I was disputing your insinuation that nVidia doesn't have a mid range gaming performance VIVO solution, when 6600GT SLI is clearly mid range in both price and performance

You'll have to point that out since I insinuated no such thing, here's what I said

So if you really want Nvidia VIVO, you are at 6600 or below or 7800GTX....thats it, what about the market gap from sub $200 to >$500+. There is no Nvidia answer to AIW 9700 going forward period, and their VIVO support took last generation-off.

The 6600 you linked fits exactly what I stated, you want to compare VIVO cards, compare them to ATI's VIVO cards. The last AIW competitive product from Nvidia was personal cinema 5700 (a pretty fair match for AIW 9600, but definately < AIW9700)

I didn't say AIW was a professional editing board...Ben, its a multimedia graphics card...get it?, I didn't say it is used in Professional Video Production houses...Keys. I know I could sit down and get to work with a DigiSuite platform right now, could you? I know a "little" about what I'm talking about LOL.

However, this thread is about the R520 being delayed yet again, not 9700Pro AIWs?

I think you need to reread the thread.

I have seen REAL professional video studios. Don't know if you have, but rest assured you will not find an ATI AIW card anywhere in sight. Its for the home user with an extra hundred dollar bill to burn.

1. I'm very familiar with Professional Video production houses...the technology, and the workflow. I've used the equipment, and personally know top people in the industry. None of which has anything to do with AIW and how it fits in the market or what I've stated.
2. Pay attention, AIW X800XT is "cheaper" than a non-AIW X800XT, which is one big reason that it represents a true value, the excellent feature set just makes it sweeter, the fact that it is a beautiful card...even better

Enough of your crazy crap Ben! rbV5 knows that ATI AIWs own the high end video editing market, and your links to $1000+ Matrox cards that are professional quality can prove no different! Begone infidel!

Hilarious...keep coming with the out of context insults. I'd love to have you guys "school" me at a Production Studio.

Generally in the nvidia boat VIVO is a free or near free addition to the cards, so i dont really expect as much as the heavy markup ATi usually has, was all i was saying

And all I was saying was ATI has attractive products in the market. And you are(were anyway) correct, ATI (or its partners) also had very few VIVO cards until X800, which incidently was when Nvidia dropped VIVO completely from 6800, so they went from offering them on almost everything, to offering them on almost nothing in a single gen of cards. AIW (and personal cinema btw), always comanded a premium because they are more complex and ship with more accessories/software than VIVO cards. At least you make sense Acanthus

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: rbV5

I was disputing your insinuation that nVidia doesn't have a mid range gaming performance VIVO solution, when 6600GT SLI is clearly mid range in both price and performance

You'll have to point that out since I insinuated no such thing, here's what I said

So if you really want Nvidia VIVO, you are at 6600 or below or 7800GTX....thats it, what about the market gap from sub $200 to >$500+. There is no Nvidia answer to AIW 9700 going forward period, and their VIVO support took last generation-off.

The 6600 you linked fits exactly what I stated, you want to compare VIVO cards, compare them to ATI's VIVO cards. The last AIW competitive product from Nvidia was personal cinema 5700 (a pretty fair match for AIW 9600, but definately < AIW9700)

I didn't say AIW was a professional editing board...Ben, its a multimedia graphics card...get it?, I didn't say it is used in Professional Video Production houses...Keys. I know I could sit down and get to work with a DigiSuite platform right now, could you? I know a "little" about what I'm talking about LOL.

However, this thread is about the R520 being delayed yet again, not 9700Pro AIWs?

I think you need to reread the thread.

I have seen REAL professional video studios. Don't know if you have, but rest assured you will not find an ATI AIW card anywhere in sight. Its for the home user with an extra hundred dollar bill to burn.

1. I'm very familiar with Professional Video production houses...the technology, and the workflow. I've used the equipment, and personally know top people in the industry. None of which has anything to do with AIW and how it fits in the market or what I've stated.
2. Pay attention, AIW X800XT is "cheaper" than a non-AIW X800XT, which is one big reason that it represents a true value, the excellent feature set just makes it sweeter, the fact that it is a beautiful card...even better

Enough of your crazy crap Ben! rbV5 knows that ATI AIWs own the high end video editing market, and your links to $1000+ Matrox cards that are professional quality can prove no different! Begone infidel!

Hilarious...keep coming with the out of context insults. I'd love to have you guys "school" me at a Production Studio.

Generally in the nvidia boat VIVO is a free or near free addition to the cards, so i dont really expect as much as the heavy markup ATi usually has, was all i was saying

And all I was saying was ATI has attractive products in the market. And you are(were anyway) correct, ATI (or its partners) also had very few VIVO cards until X800, which incidently was when Nvidia dropped VIVO completely from 6800, so they went from offering them on almost everything, to offering them on almost nothing in a single gen of cards. AIW (and personal cinema btw), always comanded a premium because they are more complex and ship with more accessories/software than VIVO cards. At least you make sense Acanthus

And we've accomplished what?

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Rollo
You may not, but until a few weeks ago the 6800U was nVs flagship/best card. Where does your X800XL fall in the hierarchy? 5th? 6th? Let's see: X850XTPE>X850XT>X800XT PE>X800XT> X800XL.

$278 X800XL

$415 6800U, AMIR

Yah, you're climbing the video card hierarchy there. Seems to me you gave me a hard time for trying a 5800U for a couple months before the 6800s were available, because I'd stepped down from a 9800Pro. In your mind, I'm sure you don't think of this as a downward shift, but many would?

Gotta love a bottom basement card that beats the 6800 U in Halflife 2.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Rollo
You may not, but until a few weeks ago the 6800U was nVs flagship/best card. Where does your X800XL fall in the hierarchy? 5th? 6th? Let's see: X850XTPE>X850XT>X800XT PE>X800XT> X800XL.

$278 X800XL

$415 6800U, AMIR

Yah, you're climbing the video card hierarchy there. Seems to me you gave me a hard time for trying a 5800U for a couple months before the 6800s were available, because I'd stepped down from a 9800Pro. In your mind, I'm sure you don't think of this as a downward shift, but many would?

Gotta love a bottom basement card that beats the 6800 U in Halflife 2.

It sure as hell better, because it cost ATI around 8 million dollars to do so.

 

[Drayvn]

But from the rumours around the web the deal also extends to the sequels or little episodes that Valve releases for HL2 in the future also. So when Aftermath comes out, ATi can package that with their cards also.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Drayvn
But from the rumours around the web the deal also extends to the sequels or little episodes that Valve releases for HL2 in the future also. So when Aftermath comes out, ATi can package that with their cards also.

Your probably right. Same extended deal. Same extended engine and optimizations.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Rollo
You may not, but until a few weeks ago the 6800U was nVs flagship/best card. Where does your X800XL fall in the hierarchy? 5th? 6th? Let's see: X850XTPE>X850XT>X800XT PE>X800XT> X800XL.

$278 X800XL

$415 6800U, AMIR

Yah, you're climbing the video card hierarchy there. Seems to me you gave me a hard time for trying a 5800U for a couple months before the 6800s were available, because I'd stepped down from a 9800Pro. In your mind, I'm sure you don't think of this as a downward shift, but many would?

Gotta love a bottom basement card that beats the 6800 U in Halflife 2.

It sure as hell better, because it cost ATI around 8 million dollars to do so.

Nvidia spends just as much or more on its TWINTBP marketing program with arguably lower results. The HL2 voucher program helped to push a lot of overpriced 9800 and 9600 XT cards.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Rollo
You may not, but until a few weeks ago the 6800U was nVs flagship/best card. Where does your X800XL fall in the hierarchy? 5th? 6th? Let's see: X850XTPE>X850XT>X800XT PE>X800XT> X800XL.

$278 X800XL

$415 6800U, AMIR

Yah, you're climbing the video card hierarchy there. Seems to me you gave me a hard time for trying a 5800U for a couple months before the 6800s were available, because I'd stepped down from a 9800Pro. In your mind, I'm sure you don't think of this as a downward shift, but many would?

Gotta love a bottom basement card that beats the 6800 U in Halflife 2.

It sure as hell better, because it cost ATI around 8 million dollars to do so.

Nvidia spends just as much or more on its TWINTBP marketing program with arguably lower results. The HL2 voucher program helped to push a lot of overpriced 9800 and 9600 XT cards.

Yes, Nvidia spends a WHOLE lot more, but spreads it out over dozens of developers.
Arguably lower results? What the heck does that mean? And more importantly, who would waste time arguing this?

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Rollo
You may not, but until a few weeks ago the 6800U was nVs flagship/best card. Where does your X800XL fall in the hierarchy? 5th? 6th? Let's see: X850XTPE>X850XT>X800XT PE>X800XT> X800XL.

$278 X800XL

$415 6800U, AMIR

Yah, you're climbing the video card hierarchy there. Seems to me you gave me a hard time for trying a 5800U for a couple months before the 6800s were available, because I'd stepped down from a 9800Pro. In your mind, I'm sure you don't think of this as a downward shift, but many would?

Gotta love a bottom basement card that beats the 6800 U in Halflife 2.

It sure as hell better, because it cost ATI around 8 million dollars to do so.

Nvidia spends just as much or more on its TWINTBP marketing program with arguably lower results. The HL2 voucher program helped to push a lot of overpriced 9800 and 9600 XT cards.

Yes, Nvidia spends a WHOLE lot more, but spreads it out over dozens of developers.
Arguably lower results? What the heck does that mean? And more importantly, who would waste time arguing this?

Well you don't see many Nvidia bargain budget cards running with the x850 XT (PE) in high res AA/AF.

But i have no idea why anyone discusses this actually, I'm not concerned with ATI or Nvidias finances, only their products.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Rollo
Came with the 7800SLI, so yeah, pretty recent? :roll: My benchmarks of HL2 at that setting are in my thread. The Far Cry benching tool I used doesn't support it, neither does Doom3 (AFAIK).

Doom 3 can support when you type these console commands:

r_mode -1
r_customWidth 1920
r_customHeight 1440
r_fullscreen 1
vid_restart

But there's no "official" r_mode code for 1920x1440. -1 just means use custom.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Rollo
Came with the 7800SLI, so yeah, pretty recent? :roll: My benchmarks of HL2 at that setting are in my thread. The Far Cry benching tool I used doesn't support it, neither does Doom3 (AFAIK).

Doom 3 can support when you type these console commands:

r_mode -1
r_customWidth 1920
r_customHeight 1440
r_fullscreen 1
vid_restart

But there's no "official" r_mode code for 1920x1440. -1 just means use custom.

Hey- thanks XT! I'll try it tonight!

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Rollo
You may not, but until a few weeks ago the 6800U was nVs flagship/best card. Where does your X800XL fall in the hierarchy? 5th? 6th? Let's see: X850XTPE>X850XT>X800XT PE>X800XT> X800XL.

$278 X800XL

$415 6800U, AMIR

Yah, you're climbing the video card hierarchy there. Seems to me you gave me a hard time for trying a 5800U for a couple months before the 6800s were available, because I'd stepped down from a 9800Pro. In your mind, I'm sure you don't think of this as a downward shift, but many would?

Gotta love a bottom basement card that beats the 6800 U in Halflife 2.

It sure as hell better, because it cost ATI around 8 million dollars to do so.

Nvidia spends just as much or more on its TWINTBP marketing program with arguably lower results. The HL2 voucher program helped to push a lot of overpriced 9800 and 9600 XT cards.

Yes, Nvidia spends a WHOLE lot more, but spreads it out over dozens of developers.
Arguably lower results? What the heck does that mean? And more importantly, who would waste time arguing this?

Well you don't see many Nvidia bargain budget cards running with the x850 XT (PE) in high res AA/AF.

But i have no idea why anyone discusses this actually, I'm not concerned with ATI or Nvidias finances, only their products.

Got anything positive to say about nvidia today zendari? Not that it matters, but you are going out of your way here. Just a trend I'm noticing.

 

[gsellis]

Just to clear somethings up, AIW is not really a video editing solution for pros while the Matrox is. AIW does work well for Analog in if the tape or source is clear. Personally, I would use a Canopus box if I did it all of the time. I do it so rarely, that I usually use my AIW 7500 when I need to.

If you were really serious about AV input for editing, Canopus is a great cross NLE solution. VIVO is just for fun stuff and there are even cheaper direct to MPEG solutions. The new Edius NX may be the better "low-end" solution now. By "low-end", I mean 4-2-2 or less solutions under $10k. Wish I could afford one, but that money would be reserved for the camera budget

 

[eastvillager]

It would be nice if there was a way to measure how important to overall business having the top-end enthusiast card really was? We've watched it flipflop back and forth, but has it made any real difference to either company? Even the ATI half-life2 debacle only really affected some portion of the gamer segment.

You can't do it by sales, since sales in that segment have to be tiny compared to what nvidia and ati oem to system builders for typical boxes.

Nice move for nvidia to announce the 7800 and have their partners shipping actual products at the same time. We can hope it sets a pattern for the future.

I put a 6800gt in my watercooled rig, an x800pro in my HTPC, and a n x800xl in my SFF. Whatever seems like the best card for the job gets the slot, screw brand loyalty.

 

[blckgrffn]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Rollo
You may not, but until a few weeks ago the 6800U was nVs flagship/best card. Where does your X800XL fall in the hierarchy? 5th? 6th? Let's see: X850XTPE>X850XT>X800XT PE>X800XT> X800XL.

$278 X800XL

$415 6800U, AMIR

Yah, you're climbing the video card hierarchy there. Seems to me you gave me a hard time for trying a 5800U for a couple months before the 6800s were available, because I'd stepped down from a 9800Pro. In your mind, I'm sure you don't think of this as a downward shift, but many would?

Gotta love a bottom basement card that beats the 6800 U in Halflife 2.

It sure as hell better, because it cost ATI around 8 million dollars to do so.

Got to love that you brought it up and then asked why we were talking about it. Way to go :roll: Add to the fact that Zendari up unti recently was sporting a 6800GT, I think that says pleny about whether she has "anything positive to say" about nvidia. Why is that important?

Also, BFG, thanks for outlining Rollo's perspective on the video industry, I found it amusing and incredibly accurate If only we could convince that guy in the thread about the computing power of cell & xbox360 isn't supposed to be swallowed whole fromt the marketing divisions of their respective owners, you would be on one hell of a roll!

 

[blckgrffn]

Originally posted by: eastvillager
It would be nice if there was a way to measure how important to overall business having the top-end enthusiast card really was? We've watched it flipflop back and forth, but has it made any real difference to either company? Even the ATI half-life2 debacle only really affected some portion of the gamer segment.

You can't do it by sales, since sales in that segment have to be tiny compared to what nvidia and ati oem to system builders for typical boxes.

Nice move for nvidia to announce the 7800 and have their partners shipping actual products at the same time. We can hope it sets a pattern for the future.

I put a 6800gt in my watercooled rig, an x800pro in my HTPC, and a n x800xl in my SFF. Whatever seems like the best card for the job gets the slot, screw brand loyalty.

That is how it is supposed to be done!

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Rollo
You may not, but until a few weeks ago the 6800U was nVs flagship/best card. Where does your X800XL fall in the hierarchy? 5th? 6th? Let's see: X850XTPE>X850XT>X800XT PE>X800XT> X800XL.

$278 X800XL

$415 6800U, AMIR

Yah, you're climbing the video card hierarchy there. Seems to me you gave me a hard time for trying a 5800U for a couple months before the 6800s were available, because I'd stepped down from a 9800Pro. In your mind, I'm sure you don't think of this as a downward shift, but many would?

Gotta love a bottom basement card that beats the 6800 U in Halflife 2.

It sure as hell better, because it cost ATI around 8 million dollars to do so.

Nvidia spends just as much or more on its TWINTBP marketing program with arguably lower results. The HL2 voucher program helped to push a lot of overpriced 9800 and 9600 XT cards.

Yes, Nvidia spends a WHOLE lot more, but spreads it out over dozens of developers.
Arguably lower results? What the heck does that mean? And more importantly, who would waste time arguing this?

Well you don't see many Nvidia bargain budget cards running with the x850 XT (PE) in high res AA/AF.

But i have no idea why anyone discusses this actually, I'm not concerned with ATI or Nvidias finances, only their products.

Got anything positive to say about nvidia today zendari? Not that it matters, but you are going out of your way here. Just a trend I'm noticing.

Today? Not really. The Geforce 6 series, especially the $300 GT deals that I picked up on, were excellent products a year ago and I was quite happy with their performance for the time I used them. But the 7800 is too expensive, and the 6800GT in PCIE is overpriced ($300 newegg deal is a no-go for me since I get sales tax), so Nvidia doesnt have much going for me right now, sadly.

If you check the FSFT forums I'm trying to sell my 6800 GT AGP or trade it for a PCIE card. Assuming I make $240 after shipping for selling it, I don't think I should have to pay $100 extra to obtain another version of the same card?

I picked up a
$160 (150 + 10 tax) x800 vanilla x800, lets see how it performs.

 

[blckgrffn]

^ That seems to be the best value right now in the lower-mid range of cards, why don't you start a thread on its performance. Reviews on the net seem impossible to find.

Thanks,
Nat