Really how is important is response time on LCD

[Boobers]

Not crisp? LIES! My 19" LCD is WAY crisper than my 19" CRT... and the colors are more vibrant.
(Especially at 1280x1024)

IMHO, LCD is better in every way...
(Except watching DVD's at full screen. The upscaling of DVD resoultion to 1280x1024 does cause some blockiness)

BTW, what kind of "screaming CRT" can you get for $133??? ($400 LCD / 3 = 133)

 

[kamaboko]

i was a computer store this afternoon. they had several high end lcd monitors from viewsonic, sony, samsung and ctl. at the same time they had a number of crt monitors. in any case, all of them were playing the same movie. there was simply no comparison. the lcd's didn't measure up to the crt's. text also becomes more pixelated(sp) and certain resolutions. i'll also add that we got rid of all of our crt's at work and gave everyone lcd's. at first they were jazzed, but after working on them for several weeks, many asked for their crt's back simply because they thought they were more sharp.

 

[VIAN]

There are crappy CRT's and there are crappy LCDs.

LCDs aren't bad for gaming, and if you switch to a CRT or vice-versa you might not notice a difference and you might. There are pluses to having a LCD over a CRT for gaming as well as CRT over LCD.

I would only get an LCD if the price was lower than a CRT though because I like CRTs. Let's face it, I don't have a lot of money to throw around. I prefer CRTs over LCDs, but am I gonna strain myself to get a CRT if it costs more, no.

Be either LCD or CRT, the screen is gonna sit about 6 inches from my face, so I dont need an LCD for space. CRTs display better picture quality = fact and they are cheaper=fact. I buy CRTs for this reason. If LCDs were cheaper, ones where you have a good viewing angle- most annoying thing about LCDs, then I would get one. But the book isn't like that now is it.

If you have space constraints - go ahead and buy an LCD. LCDs are good. I have not space constraints, so I choose what I want.

 

[Nebor]

Meh, I'm not going to turn this into a flame war because of "Boobers."

Bottom line, like I said several times before, if it looks good to you, then it's fine. It doesn't matter what VIAN tells you. If money is more important to you, take it back for a CRT, and see how that looks to you. If it looks better, keep that. It's all about your personal preference, and the fact that most of us don't give a damn what you use. But when you come on here asking for our advice, and then blatantly ignoring it, it tends to piss us off.

To quote Hank Hill: I don't have an anger problem. I have an idiot problem.

 

[faye]

My LCD rise is 5ms.

if i dont' read from spec, i can't tell the actual respond time.

like 16ms or 25ms

 

[Vonkhan]

BTW, Nebor is a jack-hole. I'd pay no attention to him, as he/she is a very small person, who probably lives a miserable, lonely life...

word




in my limited experiece with LCDs, I found them to be better while gaming for more than a couple of hours, less eye strain. However, I've become spolit playing most games at 1600x1200 with my 3.2/9800XT combo, so ... I'll stick with CRTs for the time being. My backup rig, which I use to homework and stuff has a 15" KDS LCD which is pretty nice - I like it.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Boobers
Not crisp? LIES! My 19" LCD is WAY crisper than my 19" CRT... and the colors are more vibrant.
(Especially at 1280x1024)

IMHO, LCD is better in every way...
(Except watching DVD's at full screen. The upscaling of DVD resoultion to 1280x1024 does cause some blockiness)

BTW, what kind of "screaming CRT" can you get for $133??? ($400 LCD / 3 = 133)

where did you get a 19" LCD for $400?

And my new display is a Viewsonic P95+, $279 free ship @ newegg, ordered it yesterday.

2048x1536 resolution, digital vibrance controls, cant get dead pixels, doesnt ghost, dont have to worry about native resolutions, MUCH harder to damage (i wont kill it by touching the screen), and i spent far less

I'll prolly go LCD in a few years if they fix some of the stupid stuff like native reso, and the dead pixel / easy to damage screens.

 

[daddyo]

the lcd's didn't measure up to the crt's. text also becomes more pixelated(sp) and certain resolutions. i'll also add that we got rid of all of our crt's at work and gave everyone lcd's. at first they were jazzed, but after working on them for several weeks, many asked for their crt's back simply because they thought they were more sharp.

LCD's must be run at native resolution or they will look like crap. It's funny, if you browse the Dell monitor forums, you see all these people complaining about fuzzy LCD's. Then the moderator will tell them to set the resolution to the LCD native, and the next post is "IT WORKED! LOOKS GREAT! THANKS!".

Also, if you are looking at monitors in a store, and they were all displaying the same thing, it was probably running through a splitter, which is a terrible way to compare image quality.

The 15" Ultrasharp LCD on my Thinkpad has no equal. It's stunningly crisp, compared to every CRT I've used, including the best ones on the market.

 

[Kingofcomputer]

Why my 50ms LCD can play FPS games well?
Different manufacturers use different method to calculate these figures.
Some manufacturers lie on the spec, they just list the highest contrast ratio, brightness, lowest response time at one point.
My LCD is actually not that slow. Later the manufacturer changed the spec to 40ms, then 30ms to follow the trend.

So don't look too seriously at the spec on paper, see the real thing first if you can. Otherwise buy realiable brands only.

 

[cm123]

$496 is the cheapest 19" LCD I have seen, its here:


http://store.yahoo.com/justdeals/x9gkomodoiii1.html

cm123

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Boobers
Not crisp? LIES! My 19" LCD is WAY crisper than my 19" CRT... and the colors are more vibrant.
(Especially at 1280x1024)

IMHO, LCD is better in every way...
(Except watching DVD's at full screen. The upscaling of DVD resoultion to 1280x1024 does cause some blockiness)

BTW, what kind of "screaming CRT" can you get for $133??? ($400 LCD / 3 = 133)

where did you get a 19" LCD for $400?

And my new display is a Viewsonic P95+, $279 free ship @ newegg, ordered it yesterday.

2048x1536 resolution, digital vibrance controls, cant get dead pixels, doesnt ghost, dont have to worry about native resolutions, MUCH harder to damage (i wont kill it by touching the screen), and i spent far less

I'll prolly go LCD in a few years if they fix some of the stupid stuff like native reso, and the dead pixel / easy to damage screens.

 

[BoomAM]

Originally posted by: AMDBarton2500
Why would you want LCD if you are a gamer?

Cos they`re more than good enough for games.

Originally posted by: cm123
I agree, LCD's can do games, and do them well, I have 4 LCD's at home, all hook too our gaming machines. Everyone that plays on them loves them, and ends up switching as well...

Same here. I friend of mine is getting the same TFT as me cos he likes it so much.

Originally posted by: Nebor
Then why jump to the conclusion that LCDs are crap for gaming? Explain yourself.

Exactely, explain yourself!

oh well I guess for gaming lcd are crap

If you stick to that comment/opinion then you are just being bias. You`ve probably used some crappy TFT that has a 50ms responce time and are drawing conclusions from that.

 

[Boobers]

The person who started this thread (nealh) is talking about the deal last weekend at Costco.

They had an Envision 19" LCD w/ 25ms response time for sale for $490-$50IR-$40MIR=$400.

THAT is what this post is all about.

He asked: What is the best way to test for ghosting?

"Faye" gave a very useful link to a monitor calibrator website that contains a ghosting test page that actually works pretty good.

"KingofComputer", "mem" and"daddy-o" (and some others) are sharing useful info.

Unless I missed something, this wasn't supposed to be a CRT -vs- LCD debate nor a flame war.

If some people have nothing positive to contribute to the thread, maybe they should go elsewhere...

 

[Big Lar]

I don't know bout how others think about the Lcd's, but I have a Viewsonic 19" that is 25ms, and I run my P4 @ 3750, and my Radeon Pro 128 at 450/351 daily in games, and I have yet to see any ghosting in any games or demos I have run, which has been a pretty extensive list. Hope that helps.

 

[Naffer]

1600x1200x85... I'll never go back to anything lower.
It's a shame I can only run 2038x1536 at 60hz... otherwise I'd use that instead~!

The problem is that it's a HUGE problem to adjust settings... Moving one corner out involves fidling with 68 geometry controls!

By the way, response time isn't everything. 16ms is for a black pixel to go to white. Turning a red into a blue or a green or a cyan or whatver takes longer. Not every change happens at 16ms. Also, fade out is an issue. It often takes more then 16ms for a pixel to turn off completely.

 

[BFG10K]

For framerate based games LCDs are generally inferior to CRTs because of their lower ability to display a certain amount of frames per second compared to CRTs.

Thus if you absolutely must get an LCD then get the one with the lowest response time you can find.

 

[Viper96720]

Some LCD's have a glass panel in front of the screen. Some of the AG Neovo models have them.

 

[Jeff7181]

I didn't read all the replies cause I'm not that interested in this post... but... it should be noted that the specification you listed doesn't always mean that's always what you'll see... some companies measure response time differently... some use white to black, some use greys. If you're buying an LCD and are concerned about ghosting in games, don't buy one until you see it in person running a game that you play.

 

[nealh]

But when you come on here asking for our advice, and then blatantly ignoring it, it tends to piss us off.

To quote Hank Hill: I don't have an anger problem. I have an idiot problem

Nebor: Who the hell do you think you are ...the AT police... I did not ignore anyone's advice. If you did not like my comments then move and keep you stupid thoughts to yourself....Jeez you have been a member here for a big 6 months and give forums a bad name with judgemental comments like that.

My comment LCDs are crap for games was a bit off the cuff but seemed to be a feel that many gamers..because of frame rate and ghosting etc...I should have been more clear I was unsure if I personally agreed but needed to realize my 19in crt maybe better for this.

Crap I do not understand why people get so personal and have to attack people over every comment...I was asking for advice and experience from other users and then needed to test for myself

After being a member at AT for nearly 5 yrs..I feel there is a wealth of users with all kinds of needs and what better group to get info

OK maybe my comment lcds are crap for gaming was too premature but lets face you really can only use a lcd at its native res.....crt have more options in some ways

I tested 3d mark 2001 se last night..it first ran at 1024x768..as was not paying attention and ghosting and image quality was crap...then I fixed things abit and the Envision 19in lcd looked great there were just a couple of spots where I thought I saw ghosting with very higher frames rates with the dragon flying...

I wil ltry to run a side by side comparison and see if it is a keeper..it does seem to produce less eyestrain wihich is a big positive for me

For me it will probably be fine but I found I can not seem to run Jedi Knight:Jedi Academy as my lcd will not start at 640x480 and opengl keeps crashing with a pixelformat error. I have not tested with my crt yet

Anyway..I think for alot of other uses the lcd is very nice and I do agree video upscaling is a bit awkward on movies...

 

[Nebor]

LCDs work fine at native resolutions. Again, you're just repeating what you've heard. Try using an LCD at non-native resolution. You probably can't tell the difference.

 

[Blackroot]

Originally posted by: Vonkhan

BTW, Nebor is a jack-hole. I'd pay no attention to him, as he/she is a very small person, who probably lives a miserable, lonely life...

nice quote, look at date he joined, june i think, and already 2500 posts, can i say TOOL?

 

[Vonkhan]

Originally posted by: Blackroot

Originally posted by: Vonkhan

BTW, Nebor is a jack-hole. I'd pay no attention to him, as he/she is a very small person, who probably lives a miserable, lonely life...

nice quote, look at date he joined, june i think, and already 2500 posts, can i say TOOL?

my bad Blackroot, I misundersttod


But for what its worth, this time Nebor seems to know what he's talking about and I'm learning something from his posts in this thread

Right now, I'm negotiating for a 20.1 Planar w/ 25ms ... heard good things about it, supp'd to be good as far as gaming goes

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Vonkhan

Originally posted by: Blackroot

Originally posted by: Vonkhan

BTW, Nebor is a jack-hole. I'd pay no attention to him, as he/she is a very small person, who probably lives a miserable, lonely life...

nice quote, look at date he joined, june i think, and already 2500 posts, can i say TOOL?

Blackroot, I'm an active trader on the FS/T and I post regularly - so flippin what? nebor is ur soulmate or sumthin?

stick to the topic


But for what its worth, this time Nebor seems to know what he's talking about and I'm learning something from his posts in this thread

Right now, I'm negotiating for a 20.1 Planar w/ 25ms ... heard good things about it, supp'd to be good as far as gaming goes

I think Blackroot was backing you up Vonkhan... He was saying that I'm a miserable lonely person because I've amassed this many posts in such a short amount of time.

I never said you don't know what you're talking about Vonkhan... I just don't find you to be a terribly ethical person. But I can't really change that, so I've forgotten it.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Vonkhan

Originally posted by: Blackroot

Originally posted by: Vonkhan

BTW, Nebor is a jack-hole. I'd pay no attention to him, as he/she is a very small person, who probably lives a miserable, lonely life...

nice quote, look at date he joined, june i think, and already 2500 posts, can i say TOOL?

Blackroot, I'm an active trader on the FS/T and I post regularly - so flippin what? nebor is ur soulmate or sumthin?

stick to the topic


But for what its worth, this time Nebor seems to know what he's talking about and I'm learning something from his posts in this thread

Right now, I'm negotiating for a 20.1 Planar w/ 25ms ... heard good things about it, supp'd to be good as far as gaming goes

I think Blackroot was backing you up Vonkhan... He was saying that I'm a miserable lonely person because I've amassed this many posts in such a short amount of time.

I never said you don't know what you're talking about Vonkhan... I just don't find you to be a terribly ethical person. But I can't really change that, so I've forgotten it.

 

[BoomAM]

Calm down guys/gals.
Who cares if he`s amassed 2500 posts in 6 months, i know of members who have more posts than me, and have only been here a few months.
The amount of posts, and time its taken to obtain doesnt matter imo. If someone knows the answer to something, then why not post? Should s/he hold back just to stay inline what some people consider "normal".

 

[nealh]

Nebor..I tired non native res on 3d mark 2001 se..there clearly was a difference in image quality with high frame rates and more ghosting but once I switched to native res things seemed better

I will go back though and try 1024x768 with AA on and see if this helps

For me the Envision 19in lcd seems to look better in games with the native res and refresh rate win xp started with...1280x1024x32 with 60hz..strange that changing the refresh rate does seem to affect in some games the image. The only reason I say this is that I thought an lcd does not refresh the same way as a crt so 60, 75, 85 hz really is unimportant