Really how is important is response time on LCD

[nealh]

I bought the Envision 19in LCD from costco..has 25ms response time..I have played Max 2 ...just few minutes no obvious ghost..also no real action
Native res is 1280x1024x32
Halo..ran choppy but if I recall it did so with my 19in crt too...
I have not seen ghosting but maybe the radeon 9700 pro may not be fast enough

I have a p4 2.4@2.9
512mg ram at 160fsb
abit IT7 MAx 2 rev2
Radeon 9700 pro

I play a few games and really do not want ghosting to be an inssue in a month..what is the best way to test for it?

I have seen posts that 16ms means 60fps and 25ms means 40fps...but with the fast videocards I would guess ghosting to be an issue for even 16ms

 

[kylebisme]

you make no sense.

 

[AMDBarton2500]

Why would you want LCD if you are a gamer?

 

[VIAN]

La sigh, poorly guided one, CRTs are a gamers tool.

 

[Nebor]

If it looks fine to you, then don't worry about it. Max Payne 2 is a pretty fast paced game. If you didn't notice any ghosting there, then you're fine.

Don't listen to those who say "LCDs can't display games! THeir native resolution hertz is too low for the response time's interpolation!" Because they don't know what they're talking about.

 

[nealh]

I am sorry if I am confusing...I picked up the Envision 19in LCD from costco..Image is very nice

I game occasionally now but do not want to hamper my experience that much...

I see that 16ms is supposedly key to avoid ghosting but is this really true with the faster videocards...

I like my 19in CRT Samsung 900ift..4 yrs old.. I do get fair amount of eyestrain(even running at 85hz) and glare with it

oh well I guess for gaming lcd are crap

 

[nealh]

I should note in Max 2 I was not involved in any heavy action..maybe I should run 3dmark2001 or something to test heavy action

 

[cm123]

Originally posted by: Nebor
If it looks fine to you, then don't worry about it. Max Payne 2 is a pretty fast paced game. If you didn't notice any ghosting there, then you're fine.

Don't listen to those who say "LCDs can't display games! THeir native resolution hertz is too low for the response time's interpolation!" Because they don't know what they're talking about.

I agree, LCD's can do games, and do them well, I have 4 LCD's at home, all hook too our gaming machines. Everyone that plays on them loves them, and ends up switching as well...

 

[Nebor]

I bought the Envision 19in LCD from costco..has 25ms response time..I have played Max 2 ...just few minutes no obvious ghost..also no real action

oh well I guess for gaming lcd are crap

So your point is... you're a fvcking moron? You said you liked the monitor, didn't see any ghosting, and enjoyed gaming with it.... But because of what the CRT nazis on the board say, you decide LCD monitors are no good for gaming. You choose to go off what people tell you (people who've never even owned an LCD) rather than off your own first hand experience. You're a sheep, and an idiot. Castrate yourself. Oh, and return your LCD, you don't deserve it.

 

[nealh]

Nebor..I have played like 5 min on Max2 and I am not sure it is ok..yet

You are a bit harsh...I did say I was going to try 3d bench to see how it works with intense fast paced scenes

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: nealh
Nebor..I have played like 5 min on Max2 and I am not sure it is ok..yet

You are a bit harsh...I did say I was going to try 3d bench to see how it works with intense fast paced scenes

Then why jump to the conclusion that LCDs are crap for gaming? Explain yourself.

 

[cm123]

Originally posted by: Nebor

I bought the Envision 19in LCD from costco..has 25ms response time..I have played Max 2 ...just few minutes no obvious ghost..also no real action

oh well I guess for gaming lcd are crap

So your point is... you're a fvcking moron? You said you liked the monitor, didn't see any ghosting, and enjoyed gaming with it.... But because of what the CRT nazis on the board say, you decide LCD monitors are no good for gaming. You choose to go off what people tell you (people who've never even owned an LCD) rather than off your own first hand experience. You're a sheep, and an idiot. Castrate yourself. Oh, and return your LCD, you don't deserve it.

You got to love this post above! very true too...

 

[nealh]

based on the slow response rate others complain about???

jeez you guys are getting too personal..

 

[Tab]

Why would you want LCD if you are a gamer?

You don't want to carry a massive 19" Moniter lans and you dont want eyestrain.

oh well I guess for gaming lcd are crap

Yea, to YOUR Evision Costco LCD.

jeez you guys are getting too personal..

Welcome to the interweb.

 

[faye]

nealh,

try this

although, i don't know how short should the trail be. see if u can accept that.

don't want to get too intense, i am using ComeMon 17" 750:1 350cd/ms2 LCD(5ms, ya 5ms, becos hear in asia only use the rising speed, not the typical one), it looks great on text.

I am not a gamer right now, but a year ago, i had a 19" NEC FB model(CRT), that one do really blow the LCD i am using away.!

Some top of the line LCD do gaming really good, but ur Envision is ...

try some 3d benchmarks or games with bright background like Halflife(cs_italy, if i remember correctly). just spin urself and see if u get any ghost, this is what i do.

 

[nealh]

tabb..I have been on anandtech for 4yrs I realize people can be a bit nasty..I do not know why..but it seems to make them feel good I guess to insult someone

I never owned an LCD before and was trying to get info from others with experience..sorry it wasted their time..they should have never responded...

Faye..thank you for the helpful link...

I tried 3d mark03 but the video is so intense that fps are so low on my machine it is hard to get a sense of ghosting ..images look good in the few places where fps get over 50 fps but this is few and far between

 

[Kingofcomputer]

My LCD spec says 50ms, but i don't see ghosting in FPS games.
So I conclude that any LCD with 50ms or lower response time is ok for gaming.

 

[GtPrOjEcTX]

Originally posted by: Kingofcomputer
My LCD spec says 50ms, but i don't see ghosting in FPS games.
So I conclude that any LCD with 50ms or lower response time is ok for gaming.

2 choices:
1) you're kidding
2) you have horrible eyes, because there is no way a LCD with 50ms response time would be a good gameing ghostless monitor.



on a side note I have 3 Dell 1800FPs and game on them. Make sure you game at native resolution and it will look great.

 

[Mem]

Why would you want LCD if you are a gamer?

Why not? I use my Samsung 191T for Quake 3,UT,TFC etc and find it just fine for my gaming,no eyestrain,small desktop space with big gaming screen,excellent crisp image in both text and graphics and perfect geometry.

Best way to reduce ghosting is use DVI mode and go for fastest response times if ghosting is a real concern for you (I believe Samsung have a 17" 12ms 172X model available).Like all things ghosting depends on lots of factors like LCD model ,game and most important your eyes, ghosting for me is not really noticeable,I`m too busy killing and having fun .

 

[sugarkang]

reviews say that those 12ms are absolute crap. worse than 25ms monitors.

the 12ms is just the rise. it's actually 16ms, from what i've heard. dunno if this is true. can someone verify?

 

[Matthias99]

Samsung's not being very clear. The rumor going around is that there's a newer version of the 172X available that has a faster panel than the first one (which was 16ms). It may or may not actually be 12ms (I suspect not) -- if it is, that would make it the fastest commercially available LCD panel in the world. This may explain the schizophrenic reviews -- half say it's great, half say it's terrible. I wouldn't buy one until the dust settles.

What you've probably heard is that some of the 16ms displays (like the ones on AU Optronics panels) are often worse than the 20ms displays (like from LG Phillips). The 16ms ones are faster black-to-white, but slower grey-to-grey (ie, in most real-world conditions). The 20ms ones have a higher *minimum* response time, but their average is much lower.

 

[Pete]

MP2 is a fairly dark game, and that may make ghosting less visible. Try 3DM01SE or another game that's brighter. Heck, just try the Quake 3 demo.

As for your misconceptions about LCDs (such as faster video cards overcoming slower response times), sorry, I'm not in the edifying mood. But I'm sure you can search for the info you need, or read a few GamePC or THG or Anandtech LCD reviews.

 

[WobbleWobble]

Originally posted by: Matthias99
Samsung's not being very clear. The rumor going around is that there's a newer version of the 172X available that has a faster panel than the first one (which was 16ms). It may or may not actually be 12ms (I suspect not) -- if it is, that would make it the fastest commercially available LCD panel in the world. This may explain the schizophrenic reviews -- half say it's great, half say it's terrible. I wouldn't buy one until the dust settles.

What you've probably heard is that some of the 16ms displays (like the ones on AU Optronics panels) are often worse than the 20ms displays (like from LG Phillips). The 16ms ones are faster black-to-white, but slower grey-to-grey (ie, in most real-world conditions). The 20ms ones have a higher *minimum* response time, but their average is much lower.

I totally agree with you that Samsung isn't being very clear. They've been flaky on the specs of their monitors recently, like bumping up the rated contrast ratio on models that didn't even change. Also by sending out nicer review models and releasing not so nice models. Like the 173T, where they sent out 700:1 panels to reviewers, but ship 450:1 models.

But anyways, I'm happy with my 173T (using DVI)playing games with 25ms response time.

I agree with Nebor in instantly concluding your experiences with LCDs with a few minutes of action and the words of others. Take some time to try out your monitor as Costco has a generous return policy anyways.

 

[Boobers]

I bought one of those Envision 19" LCD's too. I love it. It has great color and plays games just fine. I'm using the DVI connection.

Although, the first one I got was defective and ghosted horribly (even scrolling a page of text ghosted really bad).
I returned it, got another, and have been happy ever since.

You have to use your own two eyes to judge. No posts or reviews can change what you see on your LCD.
IMHO, 25ms is fine for gaming. Try it and I think you'll like it.
But the screen is so bright and vivid, it might take some getting used to...

BTW, Nebor is a jack-hole. I'd pay no attention to him, as he/she is a very small person, who probably lives a miserable, lonely life...

 

[kamaboko]

i'm going to wait another year or so. bottom line is that lcd's are not as crisp as crt's; especially for movies and i would suspect gaming. yeah, it's cool to have a thin "trendy" monitor, but for a third of the money one can get a screaming crt.