Reality check regarding debt ceiling talks

[trenchfoot]

I suggest that the 50% of the population that hasn't been paying any taxes or has a negative tax rate, should start paying their fair share.

The huge Corporations that are included in your grouping will not have anything to do with what you ask.😉

 

[her209]

That reads like a leftists wet dream. Even trying to ignore the beckoning of logic and reason your arument doesn't make any sense. The bolded is your most egregious error in your thought process.

That's a great argument. 🙄

Let's take an example:

You just got the job as the President of a small/medium business. Your predecessors' decisions has cause the business to incur $7 million in debt. The business just began earning a profit after many years of operating at a net loss. Its projected that the business is going to be earning a profit for the next 10 years enough so that you're going to be able to pay off the $7 million debt that the company owes in that time. But then you get this great idea that instead of paying down the debt, if you put the money towards the employees that generate revenue for the company, they'd create even more revenue and in turn more profit for the company, allowing you to pay down the debt even faster. You go ahead with your plan and it does what you thought it would - bring in more revenue! But then you spend that extra revenue and also borrow more each year to do other things like R&D to expand the product lines, making building renovations, etc. After 8 years as President, your company now has $10 million in debt and is operating at a net loss because all the revenue generators have left for greener pastures.

Are you responsible for just $3 million ($10 million - $7 million) of the debt? Hell no. You spent the money that would have paid down the $7 million PLUS added another $3 million on top on the original debt. You're responsible for $10 million.

 

[xj0hnx]

Are you responsible for just $3 million ($10 million - $7 million) of the debt? Hell no. You spent the money that would have paid down the $7 million PLUS added another $3 million on top on the original debt. You're responsible for $10 million.

So you're saying Obama is responsible for all the debt? Thought you were one of them there libruls.

 

[her209]

So you're saying Obama is responsible for all the debt? Thought you were one of them there libruls.

/facepalm

Bush had a surplus when he came into the Presidency. He squandered it on the tax cuts, the two wars, Medicare Part D, etc.

But hey, let's blame Obama right?

 

[xj0hnx]

/facepalm

Bush had a surplus when he came into the Presidency. He squandered it on the tax cuts, the two wars, Medicare Part D, etc.

But hey, let's blame Obama right?

So Obama hasn't been trying to spend his company out of debt? Or is it that out of control spending was only a problem when Bush did it?

"Bush Co and His Criminal Cabal™" don't get a pass on anything, that shit bag fucked us good, but Obama doesn't get a pass either. "Spending your way out of debt", only in the government could that make sense to anyone.

 

[her209]

So Obama hasn't been trying to spend his company out of debt? Or is it that out of control spending was only a problem when Bush did it?

"Bush Co and His Criminal Cabal™" don't get a pass on anything, that shit bag fucked us good, but Obama doesn't get a pass either. "Spending your way out of debt", only in the government could that make sense to anyone.

LOL. I'm not excusing Obama. I'm just explaining a more accurate mechanism of measuring how much a President is adding to the national debt. For example, before any of Obama's policies, if the debt was projected to be 12T at this point and its at 14T, then Obama added 2T. On the other hand, if it was projected to be at 16T and its at 14T, then Obama saved us 2T. And if it was projected to be at 14T and its 14T then Obama added 0.

Get it?

 

[Fern]

Originally Posted by z1ggy
Why not just ditch income tax altogether and make a higher, flat sales tax? For somebody making 60k, you will bring home a net about 40k ( I did not do the math exactly, and that doesn't include state tax or social security, etc.). Even with a 20% flat sales tax, I would need to spend my salary in a year to pay that much tax. People will have more money who need it, and the rich who splurge on lavish items will pay up.

If you buy something from the Internet whose HQ is outside the US, will they have to collect sales tax? I ask this because I think the answer is "no" which means you're going to see a whole lot of companies move their corporate HQ addresses overseas to gain a price advantage over the domestic companies that won't or can't.

If the "sales tax" was done like Europe's VAT, yes. The sales tax would be charged/collected when the product entered the country.

Fern

 

[Fern]

Feb 2001
http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=2731&type=0&sequence=1

And what happened later in 2001?

That event (911) not only dinged our economy but was the cause of substantially increased government spending such as Homeland Security etc. not previously forcast in the CBO's estimates.

Fern

 

[Fern]

LOL. I'm not excusing Obama. I'm just explaining a more accurate mechanism of measuring how much a President is adding to the national debt. For example, before any of Obama's policies, if the debt was projected to be 12T at this point and its at 14T, then Obama added 2T. On the other hand, if it was projected to be at 16T and its at 14T, then Obama saved us 2T. And if it was projected to be at 14T and its 14T then Obama added 0.

Get it?

No.

CBO's estimate's are just that - Estimates.

They must assume a certain GDP and growth of of GDP, costs incurred in Medicare/Medicaid etc.

Comparing 'actual' to estimates, and then claiming that if CBO's estimates didn't turn out to be the actual number is a President's fault is silly.

'Actual' is actual, and that is a far better yardstick for measuring than any estimate.

Fern

 

[ElFenix]

LOL. I'm not excusing Obama. I'm just explaining a more accurate mechanism of measuring how much a President is adding to the national debt. For example, before any of Obama's policies, if the debt was projected to be 12T at this point and its at 14T, then Obama added 2T. On the other hand, if it was projected to be at 16T and its at 14T, then Obama saved us 2T. And if it was projected to be at 14T and its 14T then Obama added 0.

Get it?

projections years into the future aren't worth the paper they're printed on as there is too much intervening reality in the way that presidents don't have control over. the fact of the matter is even projections from early 2001 couldn't predict that a group of 19 assholes would hijack airplanes and fly them into the world trade center. remember the fears back then that we'd turn what had been a mild downturn into a full blown recession?

but then shrub started deficit spending and everything seemed ok for a while. we employed low skills people to goose us at airports and high skills people to make better xray machines and drone airplanes. so how much of that was shrub and how much of that was dictated by reality?



(part d partly pays for itself, at least)