Real World Effects Of Minimum Wage

[halik]

Ehh most research has shown that marginal increases in minimum wage have no impact on employment levels. Employers tend to cut hours a bit, but the employment rate overall stays about the same.

I would imagine tax payers would be strictly worse off w/o minimum wage, as l'd expect a large part of said workforce making less money and thus applying for the various safety net benefits.

 

[halik]

The minimum wage doesn't work and is racist against black people

You're racist by using the word "racist."

 

[nehalem256]

The "simple math" does not tell the whole story. If I remember right, things broke down when I asked how much walmart paid out to its stockholders.

When the topic came up of paying stockholders VS paying employees, a couple of people derailed things asking why shouldn't stockholders get a return on their investment.

No, it didnt. Because Walmart had $16 Billion in profits (some or all of which could be paid out to stockholders) and it cost $22 Billion to give its employees the raise you suggested.

Basically you complete failed to provide any basis for how Walmart would give the $5/hr raise beyond your hatred for Walmart.

 

[Texashiker]

The minimum wage doesn't work and is racist against black people

How is requiring fortune 500 companies to pay a liveable wage racist?

Would you like to know what the most fair form of minimum wage would be? That would be setting a ratio between the highest and lowest paid employee.

If the janitor makes $15,000 a year, the CEO can make no more then 10x the janitor.

Or better yet, everyone in the company is paid the same.

 

[Incorruptible]

Ehh most research has shown that marginal increases in minimum wage have no impact on employment levels. Employers tend to cut hours a bit, but the employment rate overall stays about the same.

I would imagine tax payers would be strictly worse off w/o minimum wage, as l'd expect a large part of said workforce making less money and thus applying for the various safety net benefits.

Which is why we shouldn't have welfare because it only encourages them to go on it and not get a job

 

[Incorruptible]

How would requiring fortune 500 companies to pay a liveable wage racist?

Would you like to know what the most fair form of minimum wage would be? That would be setting a ratio between the highest and lowest paid employee.

If the janitor makes $15,000 a year, the CEO can make no more then 10x the janitor.

Or better yet, everyone in the company is paid the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85OIBOSJTwg

 

[nehalem256]

How is requiring fortune 500 companies to pay a liveable wage racist?

Would you like to know what the most fair form of minimum wage would be? That would be setting a ratio between the highest and lowest paid employee.

If the janitor makes $15,000 a year, the CEO can make no more then 10x the janitor.

Or better yet, everyone in the company is paid the same.

Not at all...

For one you are assuming that disparity in worth between the lowest and highest employee is the same in every company.

 

[Texashiker]

Not at all...

For one you are assuming that disparity in worth between the lowest and highest employee is the same in every company.

Setting a ratio based minimum wage is fair to large and small companies.

Setting a flat rate minimum wage is only fair to companies that can afford it.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Setting a ratio based minimum wage is fair to large and small companies.

Setting a flat rate minimum wage is only fair to companies that can afford it.

So how will small businesses tht can't afford to pay a competitive wage going to surviv at all anyway? How will they retain employees. High turnover rates are more damaging to a business that higher set wage rates. Countries that have set minimum wages and/or increases to minimum wage stabilize and decrease turnover by closing wage gaps.

Never understood this line of reasoning. Anti MW people always say they can get a better paying job. What happens when they do to those small business who "can't afford" to pay MW?

 

[Texashiker]

So how will small businesses tht can't afford to pay a competitive wage going to surviv at all anyway?

By other various benefits, such as flexible work hours.

How did facebook retain its employees before it became profitable? How did dell, google, ford, yahoo, cisco,,, retain their employees when they were in startup phase?

A flat rate minimum wage squeezes out competition. Lets have a fair and free market. Lets let everyone compete on a flat and level paying field. But the way things are setup, fairness is tilted towards the companies that can afford a minimum wage.

 

[nehalem256]

Setting a ratio based minimum wage is fair to large and small companies.

Setting a flat rate minimum wage is only fair to companies that can afford it.

No its not. Because really the important thing is profit margin not profit size.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

By other various benefits, such as flexible work hours.

How did facebook retain its employees before it became profitable? How did dell, google, ford, yahoo, cisco,,, retain their employees when they were in startup phase?

A flat rate minimum wage squeezes out competition. Lets have a fair and free market. Lets let everyone compete on a flat and level paying field. But the way things are setup, fairness is tilted towards the companies that can afford a minimum wage.

So everyone having a set wage at the bottom isn't level? Won't all companies have to take the same employee costs into consideration when pricing out their goods or service?

 

[Texashiker]

No its not. Because really the important thing is profit margin not profit size.

Sure its fair.

That way when the company profits, "everyone" profits, and not just a select few.

Its like apple making a billion off its ipad and ipod, and at the same time exploiting low wage workers in china.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Sure its fair.

That way when the company profits, "everyone" profits, and not just a select few.

Its like apple making a billion off its ipad and ipod, and at the same time exploiting low wage workers in china.

They're not Apple employees and they are being paid much higher than the average wage for a worker in China.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

EDIT: woops, wrong thread!

 

[Texashiker]

They're not Apple employees and they are being paid much higher than the average wage for a worker in China.

If apple can rake in a cool billion, why cant they have a plant here, and hire American workers?

But yet we have 100 million people on welfare here in the states.

Companies that can afford to outsource to china do so, and just skirt around the whole minimum wage issue.

 

[OutHouse]

Just because other countries do it then the US should do it as well?

The minimum wage is wrong and must be ended. It seems to me your leeching off of it and that's why you support it.

lol attack the messenger? i have not worked for min wage since i was 16 and worked for mcdonalds in the mid 80's for $5.35.

i support it because i see no good in paying unskilled workers any less. I take it by your attack on me that you view min wage workers as leaches???

ive read all of your stupid thread and you have not presented not one valid argument as to why min wage should be abolished.

other than "we must eliminate it!!" lol

 

[Spungo]

No, it didnt. Because Walmart had $16 Billion in profits (some or all of which could be paid out to stockholders) and it cost $22 Billion to give its employees the raise you suggested.

Basically you complete failed to provide any basis for how Walmart would give the $5/hr raise beyond your hatred for Walmart.

Maybe Walmart sucks? Minimum wage in Australia is just over $15/h for 20 year old people and they seem to be doing fine over there.
It's worth mentioning that everything in Australia is super expensive so it's a bit of a wash.

Minimum wage misses the bigger picture. What's the point of minimum wage? People say it's to afford things like medical care or education. These are both wrong. People use that extra money to buy more food or nicer things. Making $15/h means jack squat if your 3 kids need braces that cost about $5,000 each. Forget about minimum wage. The way to truly help people have better lives is to give them free medical and dental care. $6/h with perfect teeth is a hell of a lot better than $15/h with infected teeth that are extremely painful all the time but are too expensive to fix.

 

[GrGr]

Apparently the minimum wage today is LESS (due to inflation) than it was in 1968...

People in the US are working more and more, and earning less and less. The only ones truly profiting are the top few percentages. Sure a few individuals can say *I* am doing well, but COLLECTIVELY the US is going down the drains.

Raise the minimum wage. Tax the corporations properly. Stop and claw back the socialist welfare for Wall Street etc and give it to those truly in need. Balance the budget. Cut the Overseas War department with 3/4 and turn it into a Defense Department.

Over the last 12 years universal healthcare in France has gotten 30% more expensive (the French system is considered one of the best in the world). Over the same period costs in the US have risen 120%. Fix health care.

 

[OutHouse]

If apple can rake in a cool billion, why cant they have a plant here, and hire American workers?

But yet we have 100 million people on welfare here in the states.

Companies that can afford to outsource to china do so, and just skirt around the whole minimum wage issue.

watch hardcore pawn and you will understand why some people are and will always be on welfare.

and not thanks to Obama getting rid of the work for welfare that Clinton put in place.

 

[CitizenKain]

The minimum wage must be ended, its the government sticking there nose in private business

You say that like its a bad thing. Private business has proven throughout history that it can't be trusted, and it need someone standing by with a rolled up newspaper ready to smack it. Unfortunately, our government only brings a newspaper and not a baseball bat when it comes to labor abuses.

Children working in coal mines, is that a good thing in your world?

 

[Moonbeam]

This is laughable at best.

If by this, you meant your post, because, just saying that something is laughable, because, of course, you yourself have never learned to think up original ideas and also have a brain defect that makes you fearful, proved nothing at all and is just your uninformed and idiosyncratic opinion. So how about attempting to put a foot into adulthood and offer reasons to back up your opinions. I know that's a lot to ask when the brain doesn't work properly, but give it a try, OK? You really do need to do this once in a while just so you don't piss in your own water supply.

And remember, I could have just said you are stupid but that would have only been another meaningless opinion, like yours.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Ehh most research has shown that marginal increases in minimum wage have no impact on employment levels. Employers tend to cut hours a bit, but the employment rate overall stays about the same.

I would imagine tax payers would be strictly worse off w/o minimum wage, as l'd expect a large part of said workforce making less money and thus applying for the various safety net benefits.

For everyone:

http://www.irle.berkeley.edu/workingpapers/122-12.pdf

http://www.uvm.edu/~vlrs/doc/min_wage.htm (here is a criticism by the National Review of this study http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/275846/krueger-s-faulty-minimum-wage-study-carrie-l-lukas )

http://www.krueger.princeton.edu/90051397.pdf

 

[halik]

Which is why we shouldn't have welfare because it only encourages them to go on it and not get a job

You are clearly ignorant of the TANF program in the USA. Trollololo.

 

[halik]

For everyone:

http://www.irle.berkeley.edu/workingpapers/122-12.pdf

http://www.uvm.edu/~vlrs/doc/min_wage.htm (here is a criticism by the National Review of this study http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/275846/krueger-s-faulty-minimum-wage-study-carrie-l-lukas )

http://www.krueger.princeton.edu/90051397.pdf

Haven't seen that particular multifactor in the first paper, very interesting. Assuming the data is correct, minimum wage delta have statistically significant + factor to workers income and - factor to hiring.

Have seen the Penn/NJ paper before and generally disregard the national review comments, as they are not peer-reviewed.