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Real Vegan Cheese

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rsbennett00 said:
To those that have issues with cow milk, are you sure it's the milk and not the growth hormones? I get very sick if I eat commercial milk or cheese but I can eat all the organic gmo-free milk/cheese I want without any issues.
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Would you be willing to prove this in a double-blind test, with a large wager riding on it?
 
DrPizza said:
Some vegans defy logic. "I don't like meat. But, I want something that tastes as close to a real hamburger as possible."
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How does that defy logic? I don't think a lot of people are vegan on the basis of how meat tastes.

Meat is delicious, and a lot of people who decide to become or want to be vegan or vegetarian are coming off of a life of eating it and will have a hard time giving that up...
 
Exophase said:
How does that defy logic? I don't think a lot of people are vegan on the basis of how meat tastes.

Meat is delicious, and a lot of people who decide to become or want to be vegan or vegetarian are coming off of a life of eating it and will have a hard time giving that up...
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Their logic is defying, as they are avoiding eating meat for environmental (and feel good) reasons, while missing the point that a lot of these extremely processed foods that are "just like the real thing" do more harm to the environment than killing the animals themselves.

Not to mention, the idea that eating meat is fundamentally immoral is a pretty silly idea. It is not immoral for lions to eat wildebeest, but it is immoral for a human to eat one? Without some kind of carnivores, animals are prone to overpopulation, destroying plant life and eventually starving out.
 
Kaido said:
Yeah. Which is funny because they have pretty good milk alternatives (chocolate almond milk is amazing), ice cream alternatives (coconut milk-based ice cream is super creamy & tasty), cream (ex. cashew cream), but no one has figured out a viable cheese substitute. Daiya is the closest, but even Daiya tastes like cheddar that's been in your fridge too long & has become so mild that most of the flavor is missing. But at least it melts! And gives you stomach cramps 🙁
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I am super lactose intolerant so I'm looking forward to this new dairy free cheese...but everything else you listed won't work for me because I am also allergic to nuts and coconut is gross 🙁
 
It looks like some people are going to get on their high horse about how stupid people are for being vegans every time it's brought up...

smackababy said:
Their logic is defying, as they are avoiding eating meat for environmental (and feel good) reasons, while missing the point that a lot of these extremely processed foods that are "just like the real thing" do more harm to the environment than killing the animals themselves.

Not to mention, the idea that eating meat is fundamentally immoral is a pretty silly idea. It is not immoral for lions to eat wildebeest, but it is immoral for a human to eat one? Without some kind of carnivores, animals are prone to overpopulation, destroying plant life and eventually starving out.
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So basically what you're saying is that you don't support people having preferences in what they eat, or just that these preferences can't be based on their own subjective feelings about the animals? You eat cats and dogs I take it? If not, why?

As for your part about fundamental immorality, it kind of reads like this to me..

Not to mention, the idea that rape is fundamentally immoral is a pretty silly idea. It is not immoral for gorillas to rape gorillas, but it is immoral for a human to rape one? Without some kind of rape, animals are prone to not procreate, destroying animal life and eventually dying out.
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Personally, I'm not vegan or vegetarian, but I know lots of people who are simply because they empathize with the animals they would be eating. That's a personal thing and not something that they try to guilt other people into doing. It's really annoying seeing people call them stupid and wrong over their preferences.
 
Exophase said:
It looks like some people are going to get on their high horse about how stupid people are for being vegans every time it's brought up...



So basically what you're saying is that you don't support people having preferences in what they eat, or just that these preferences can't be based on their own subjective feelings about the animals? You eat cats and dogs I take it? If not, why?

As for your part about fundamental immorality, it kind of reads like this to me..



Personally, I'm not vegan or vegetarian, but I know lots of people who are simply because they empathize with the animals they would be eating. That's a personal thing and not something that they try to guilt other people into doing. It's really annoying seeing people call them stupid and wrong over their preferences.
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I think the issue he had with the extremely processed goods not making sense for those who are "environmental vegans/vegetarians" are that the reasons people are environmental vegs are because the agriculture livestock industry produces a lot of greenhouse gases either by the animals themselves, or the transportation involved in bringing dairy nationwide.

The alternative cheeses discussed here may end up having a greater impact per unit of product produced than the natural product it is displacing. That would only affect those who are vegetarian for environmental reasons, there are a whole other slew of reasons to practice vegan/vegetarian diets, and it is likely nobody does it for solely one purpose.

So he has a valid point, but there aren't many people who follow vegan strictly for the environmental aspects of the mass livestock industry.
 
momeNt said:
I think the issue he had with the extremely processed goods not making sense for those who are "environmental vegans/vegetarians" are that the reasons people are environmental vegs are because the agriculture livestock industry produces a lot of greenhouse gases either by the animals themselves, or the transportation involved in bringing dairy nationwide.

The alternative cheeses discussed here may end up having a greater impact per unit of product produced than the natural product it is displacing. That would only affect those who are vegetarian for environmental reasons, there are a whole other slew of reasons to practice vegan/vegetarian diets, and it is likely nobody does it for solely one purpose.

So he has a valid point, but there aren't many people who follow vegan strictly for the environmental aspects of the mass livestock industry.
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Without knowing an awful lot about how this stuff is made it's really premature to talk about it having worse impact on the environment than traditional cheese. The demand for it will be so low anyway that it's moot beyond an academic discussion.

On that note (demand), what you said is right - there aren't many people who are vegan strictly because of environmental impact, because if they were they'd be evangelizing a decrease in consumption (any decrease, which is more realistic than evangelizing ending the industry altogether). Likewise, if they were vegan strictly for health reasons, as was brought up earlier in this thread, then it'd be enough to just eat in moderation because most foods won't be unhealthy in proper moderation. Although for some people it's easier to go cold turkey than do something in moderation.

But I'd wager people who are vegan are by and large doing it out of empathy for animals. Some of them want to push these feelings on other people too, but a lot don't.
 
DrPizza said:
I saw the thread title and came in here to post the same thing. "Vegan certified cheese substitute."

Some vegans defy logic. "I don't like meat. But, I want something that tastes as close to a real hamburger as possible." In OP's case, lactose intolerance gives him a pass on this cheese substitute.

And, I hope the dairy council, or whoever, fights back if a product is named "cheese" rather than "cheese substitute."
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I dunno, I've come to understand the vegan POV. I feel good on a meat diet, but I feel better on a vegan diet - especially athletic recovery times, super quick on a veggie-based diet, especially a raw one (uncooked veggies etc.). Anyway, I think if you choose to switch for whatever reason - athletic performance, more energy, ethical reasons, etc. - you still tend to like what you grew up on. If you grew up on burgers, dogs, ice cream, etc., the standard American fare, then that's what you are going to crave until you die, you know? I've had some pretty good veggie burgers...nothing I'd ever replace a real beef (or bison) burger with, but good as an occasional meal for sure.
 
rsbennett00 said:
To those that have issues with cow milk, are you sure it's the milk and not the growth hormones? I get very sick if I eat commercial milk or cheese but I can eat all the organic gmo-free milk/cheese I want without any issues.
Click to expand...

For me, it's the animal protein - I've tried sheep's, goat's, etc., it's all the same. Goat's milk is nasty, but goat cheese is da bomb, that stuff is seriously amazing :thumbsup:
 
Adul said:
This is what I don't get, turning to heavily processed foods to substitute something else whether it be meat, cheese, etc. Isn't that just less healthy than just sticking to eating all natural food?
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Yes. Some of the most unhealthy people I know are vegetarians because all they eat is processed crap like soy ice cream & Boca burgers. They live on meat-free processed foods haha.
 
smackababy said:
Kaido's problem is a milk allergy, so it isn't really about the lifestyle, as it is about being able to enjoy some kind of luxuries without dying.
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Yeah, I cooked pizza for several years & really miss it. Gluten/grain-free doughs have come a long way, but cheese hasn't made much progress. Sometimes I'll fire up a Daiya pizza, but my stomach will pay for it, and I can kill a whole pie with my high metabolism, so it's easily twelve bucks worth of Daiya cheese haha.
 
gorb said:
I am super lactose intolerant so I'm looking forward to this new dairy free cheese...but everything else you listed won't work for me because I am also allergic to nuts and coconut is gross 🙁
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I'm not a huge fan of coconut, but coconut milk ice cream is actually wicked good. I make it at least once a week. We usually make chocolate avocado ice cream (1 can full-fat coconut milk, 1/2 can sugar, 1/3 can cocoa powder, 1/2 avocado). You can't taste the avocado at all. Here's my recipes: (the store-bought stuff from Amy's or Turtle Mountain is pretty good too)

http://catch42.pbworks.com/w/page/78976952/Ice Cream

Can you do soy or hemp? There's a local vegan place that makes hemp ricotta that is unbelievably good. Plus there are lots of recipes if you use tofu & nutritional yeast.
 
I've tried a couple different brands of coconut ice cream and thought they were all terrible 🙁

I'd try your recipe but I'm also not a big fan of chocolate or chocolate flavored things. It sucks being picky and having allergies.

I'd be down to try hemp stuff. I try to not eat too much soy because I don't want to have issues with estrogen or whatever.
 
One of our colleagues is doing this on the side. Freaking vegans. I assumed it was his company, but this appears to be some other local yahoos. Not sure why they call themselves "biohackers," that is plain dumb.

anyway, this stuff is awful. As far as cheese goes, anyway. Tell yourself that you are eating tofu and you will probably like it. But it is a vile interpretation of cheese. The texture is really that bad.

Also, I don't trust vegans. They are cultists not unlike Scientologists and 7th Day Adventists.
 
DrPizza said:
I saw the thread title and came in here to post the same thing. "Vegan certified cheese substitute."

Some vegans defy logic. "I don't like meat. But, I want something that tastes as close to a real hamburger as possible." In OP's case, lactose intolerance gives him a pass on this cheese substitute.

And, I hope the dairy council, or whoever, fights back if a product is named "cheese" rather than "cheese substitute."
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That's a good point. Hershey can't label their products as chocolate. Kraft can't label their syrup pressings as cheese.
 
As a Chef, I have no problem with vegan or other restrictive diets. BUT, I absolutely hate the mindset that wants to make them resemble non restricted diets. Stop with the pretend cheese, tofurkey and, bacon substitutes. They're all crap. Develop recipes that take advantage of different vegetables unique characteristics, DON'T try to make it something it's not.
 
DrPizza said:
I saw the thread title and came in here to post the same thing. "Vegan certified cheese substitute."

Some vegans defy logic. "I don't like meat. But, I want something that tastes as close to a real hamburger as possible."
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't think anyone ever tried to make hamburger taste like tofu. Well, if they did, they're out of business.
 
gorb said:
I've tried a couple different brands of coconut ice cream and thought they were all terrible 🙁

I'd try your recipe but I'm also not a big fan of chocolate or chocolate flavored things. It sucks being picky and having allergies.

I'd be down to try hemp stuff. I try to not eat too much soy because I don't want to have issues with estrogen or whatever.
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Yeah I limit soy too, although it's not that bad for you apparently:

http://zenhabits.net/soy/

But I have a soy allergy in my family, so we generally avoid it. I'll buy it on special occasions for a recipe tho; I just bought my first tofu brick to try out vegan cheesemaking. I did hemp cheese tonight on top of a lasagna using this recipe:

http://turningveganese.com/2012/10/16/hemp-cheese/

The cheese by itself was nothing spectacular, but with some added nutritional yeast & salt sprinkled on, it was pretty tasty on the lasagna. Plus 10g of protein per ounce! :thumbsup:
 
zinfamous said:
One of our colleagues is doing this on the side. Freaking vegans. I assumed it was his company, but this appears to be some other local yahoos. Not sure why they call themselves "biohackers," that is plain dumb.

anyway, this stuff is awful. As far as cheese goes, anyway. Tell yourself that you are eating tofu and you will probably like it. But it is a vile interpretation of cheese. The texture is really that bad.

Also, I don't trust vegans. They are cultists not unlike Scientologists and 7th Day Adventists.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's the thing - it actually has to taste good. Vanilla rice milk is drinkable. Coconut milk ice cream is pretty good. Fake cheese? Terrible. The person who figures that out will be rich.
 
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