Real problems for the next century

[lotus503]

The neuroscience has been done for centuries in various forms and teachings. It can be done again today through psychoanalysis. The truth of our condition couldn't be more simple or more difficult to believe. We hate ourselves because we were put down by words as children. We used language and its power to symbolize and create the possibility to think, to create monsters of the ID. We developed a machine that could concretize everything we fear and convince ourselves that YOU are the reason. We created evil in the world and called it the other and that other is the self you will not remember.

In the process of psychotherapy one can relive ones past, re-experience all of ones past terror and see it objectively for what it was. Through positive self development and destruction of the negative self, the ego, one can regain a state of unified perception, a state that is natural to man that has risen like the phoenix from his own ashes. All of this is there in the myths and religions of the world, always misunderstood, because nobody wants to know he feels like the worst person in the world. The truth always slips away. Humanity is asleep. We do not know, don't want to know, and don't want to know we don't want to know. Until we see that we will always look for the answers in the wrong place.

I would add its not what happened to us that defines us rather the meaning we attach to it. Once a person understands that circumstances have very little to do with what or who we are, rather the meaning we attach to it and subsequent beliefs, we are free to see circumstances for what they are absent of meaning.

Once you remove the meaning, you can remove the belief and once you remove the belief, everything changes.

 

[Moonbeam]

I would add its not what happened to us that defines us rather the meaning we attach to it. Once a person understands that circumstances have very little to do with what or who we are, rather the meaning we attach to it and subsequent beliefs, we are free to see circumstances for what they are absent of meaning.

Once you remove the meaning, you can remove the belief and once you remove the belief, everything changes.

My point is that we do not know what we really believe. Our deepest beliefs are feeling not thoughts and theories. We spend our lives in a world absent of truth because we do not want to know what we feel. So none of the fine work you suggest ever really happens. Some few transcend by grace and some retrieve the golden fleece via a hero's journey through hell but real knowledge is basically absent in modern society.

 

[Agent11]

My point is that we do not know what we really believe. Our deepest beliefs are feeling not thoughts and theories. We spend our lives in a world absent of truth because we do not want to know what we feel. So none of the fine work you suggest ever really happens. Some few transcend by grace and some retrieve the golden fleece via a hero's journey through hell but real knowledge is basically absent in modern society.

Yours perhaps.

 

[Braznor]

All of you forgot about a potential war we might have against aliens from space.

 

[lotus503]

My point is that we do not know what we really believe. Our deepest beliefs are feeling not thoughts and theories. We spend our lives in a world absent of truth because we do not want to know what we feel. So none of the fine work you suggest ever really happens. Some few transcend by grace and some retrieve the golden fleece via a hero's journey through hell but real knowledge is basically absent in modern society.

We feel because of the meaning we attach to something, feelings are a manifestation of the meaning we give things. I do agree we often do not know what we believe, because we fail to look at the meaning we have associated to events.

Take a young boy, who was ignored by his parents, he may grow up with lots of feelings based on the meaning he has given to being ignored by his parents. He may feel worthless, unloved etc.

But lets say this same boy gives being ignored a different meaning to it, Parents loved me so much they worked constantly to put food on the table therefore didn't have enough time for themselves or me.

The boy depending on the meaning he has given to being ignored may grow up completely differently. Morty Lefkoe does a great job of explaining this.

Consider this

A boy born in 1975, lost his father by age 5, he then lost his mother by age 10, at age 11 he was in foster care until he reached the age of 18, he finished high-school and moved out on his own. Now tell me who this boy is.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

lol OK. Drilling a hole in someone's head is a little different than what I'm talking about.

There is indeed very little difference and that is the means to an end, that being the powerful converting the citizenry to the herd. This is a nightmare Orwell never dreamed of. I'd rather see our species become extinct.

 

[natto fire]

In no particular order:

1. Overpopulation
2. Climate change
3. Wealth gap
4. Continual depletion of natural resources / forest / environment
5. Increase in government corruption and/or erosion of civil liberties.
6. Many routine and mundane tasks will be automated by robots and computers

These are the ones I would choose as well, with the caveat that #1 includes the problem of the current impossibility of the present world population to enjoy the lifestyle of a developed industrialized nation, which I suppose ties into #3 and #4.

 

[chucky2]

The problem though is humans really aren't good with dealing at problems effectively. Take the US/Western world for example. We should be locking down our borders and only selectively letting a limited number of actually needed people in, to continue to combat unsustainable population levels. Instead, we're letting in tens of millions of non-needed people, who breed at rates not needed. Worse, rather than at the same time locking down our incoming population and using our riches and world power to mitigate negative population growth issues, we're pissing it away on DoD spending we don't need, bailouts to Wall Street that aren't needed, and buying Pepsi and Cheetos for shittons scamming the system (and all their kids, and their kids, and so on).

Eventually, when we've ruined the environment past what is realistically fixable (ourselves, or by paying other countries to do our dirty work to support our dirty needs on our behalf), sucked down realistically obtained physical resources to a scarcity point, pushed down food sources to rare levels, etc., what will we as a society do then? Address the problem of over/unneeded population? No. We'll instead, because that is simply too difficult to do, wax over the issues as they arise and come up with diversions to paint over the too painful to address issues.

What's funny is if we actually addressed population responsibly, a lot of these other issues would simply diminish to levels not needing addressing, or, be far easier to address.

 

[denis280]

No matter what.its to late

 

[Moonbeam]

We feel because of the meaning we attach to something, feelings are a manifestation of the meaning we give things. I do agree we often do not know what we believe, because we fail to look at the meaning we have associated to events.

Take a young boy, who was ignored by his parents, he may grow up with lots of feelings based on the meaning he has given to being ignored by his parents. He may feel worthless, unloved etc.

But lets say this same boy gives being ignored a different meaning to it, Parents loved me so much they worked constantly to put food on the table therefore didn't have enough time for themselves or me.

The boy depending on the meaning he has given to being ignored may grow up completely differently. Morty Lefkoe does a great job of explaining this.

Consider this

A boy born in 1975, lost his father by age 5, he then lost his mother by age 10, at age 11 he was in foster care until he reached the age of 18, he finished high-school and moved out on his own. Now tell me who this boy is.

Feelings don't care what you say to them. They don't care what you think. They don't care what you know intellectually. Feelings are want we feel and we do not know what we feel. You don't change the fact that you hate yourself by knowing that you do. You can change how you react to feelings as far as believing in their truth or knowing they are only illusions intellectually and not giving them power, but the way it seems possible to mend them is to relive them. The grief and relief of reliving traumatic experience is what brings healing. You can know everything but if you don't know it by its roots you don't really know anything I think. There is no way around the pain.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

There is no way around the pain.

But I think there is a way through it, and it is one of the reasons I believe we are here, to help when we may.

 

[moonbogg]

There is indeed very little difference and that is the means to an end, that being the powerful converting the citizenry to the herd. This is a nightmare Orwell never dreamed of. I'd rather see our species become extinct.

Clearly the thoughts that are in your head are different than the ones that are in mine. I already know what I think, but I'd like to know what you are afraid of. How are you interpreting my ideas?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Clearly the thoughts that are in your head are different than the ones that are in mine. I already know what I think, but I'd like to know what you are afraid of. How are you interpreting my ideas?

What you have suggested is a means by which those who have power over others, in the case I noted a despicable Joe Kennedy, can forever engineer others to their specifications.

One needs to be very careful what one wishes for because he might get it. What you are describing is the discarding of selves, the uniformity of thought.

Lets suppose that a person is suffering from a severe schizophrenia and "the voices" tell him to murder. Most people would agree that if there is something that could cure him then that would be a good thing. I would as well. The problem is who defines what needs to be "cured" and who makes those decisions. You really ought to read Orwell.

Remember that those with the power to make these decisions can and will exempt themselves and theirs from such "kindnesses". Hitlers, Stalins, Maos, they all would love this and for that matter those here. Who are you or anyone here to tell me what I am allowed to think or do. Who are you to take the right of my self determination away by inflicting your worldview of happiness? Perhaps I should be in control and take away your ability to make such judgements. Think on that a while. Someone who takes away yourself because he doesn't like how you think or behave. I can make you a better image, because I have the power of God and can you will be in the image I choose.

Think very carefully before you let that out of Pandora's Box.

 

[moonbogg]

What you have suggested is a means by which those who have power over others, in the case I noted a despicable Joe Kennedy, can forever engineer others to their specifications.

One needs to be very careful what one wishes for because he might get it. What you are describing is the discarding of selves, the uniformity of thought.

Lets suppose that a person is suffering from a severe schizophrenia and "the voices" tell him to murder. Most people would agree that if there is something that could cure him then that would be a good thing. I would as well. The problem is who defines what needs to be "cured" and who makes those decisions. You really ought to read Orwell.

Remember that those with the power to make these decisions can and will exempt themselves and theirs from such "kindnesses". Hitlers, Stalins, Maos, they all would love this and for that matter those here. Who are you or anyone here to tell me what I am allowed to think or do. Who are you to take the right of my self determination away by inflicting your worldview of happiness? Perhaps I should be in control and take away your ability to make such judgements. Think on that a while. Someone who takes away yourself because he doesn't like how you think or behave. I can make you a better image, because I have the power of God and can you will be in the image I choose.

Think very carefully before you let that out of Pandora's Box.

I understand those fears, and they are wise to consider because it makes sense to have such concerns when faced with such powerful, world morphing technologies. The changes I am talking about won't come on all at once and not in full form. It starts with the curing of disease and the increase of lifespan. These are things that won't cause much fear or trouble, because they are low risk and high benefit.
The next stages are where things get dicey. Those next stages are beginning of the era of enhancement. With birth defects and genetic disorders, including susceptibility to disease being things of the past, the next step is enhancement and you are right to question who will get to decide what enhancements are given and to whom. Things can go bad in many ways. One way is that only the rich and powerful will get enhancements, leaving the rest of us in the dust in a major way that cannot be corrected. This is a dark place that we don't want to find ourselves in. Most of us will be true second class citizens and far lesser creatures than the enhanced people, with their artificially enhanced cognitive abilities, computational abilities, increased eye sight, hearing and more, not to mention physical strength, bodily resilience to trauma etc.
In this scenario, people won't be hating enhancements, they will be begging for them for the sake of equality, but they won't get them.
Another bad scenario is that everyone ends up being required to have enhancements, either by law or by the way society treats those who choose not to have them. Society may look down on those who don't have them, so the social pressure to get your infant enhanced will be tremendous, yet with the enhancements you are a part of a networked species and privacy is a thing of the past and we are vulnerable to being abused.
The fears are justified, and that's why we should move forward cautiously and democratically with a clear moral blueprint laid out well before we need it.
I didn't get my ideas from this website. Instead I discovered the website while searching for material about my ideas. To my surprise, this train of thought is well embraced by quite a few.

http://humanityplus.org/philosophy/transhumanist-declaration/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU1-YFbAifA

We are living fossils.

 

[lotus503]

Feelings don't care what you say to them. They don't care what you think. They don't care what you know intellectually. Feelings are want we feel and we do not know what we feel. You don't change the fact that you hate yourself by knowing that you do. You can change how you react to feelings as far as believing in their truth or knowing they are only illusions intellectually and not giving them power, but the way it seems possible to mend them is to relive them. The grief and relief of reliving traumatic experience is what brings healing. You can know everything but if you don't know it by its roots you don't really know anything I think. There is no way around the pain.

I think we are coming to the same conclusion but processing it a bit differently.

Feelings are what we have based on the meaning we give things. i'd argue that the 1st step in you above example is in fact understanding you hate yourself. To work through feelings we have to know that we have them.

Then the logical progression is why do we have them, and in almost every case the answer is because of the meaning we have given events, thoughts etc. Once you can understand that events, circumstances etc have no meaning outside what we give them we are free to give them new meaning or at least accept that all events can have multiple meanings and the one we chose that led to our feelings may not be right.

Once you remove the meaning you are then free to have different feelings/beliefs and if you can change how you feel/the belief.

 

[lotus503]

I understand those fears, and they are wise to consider because it makes sense to have such concerns when faced with such powerful, world morphing technologies. The changes I am talking about won't come on all at once and not in full form. It starts with the curing of disease and the increase of lifespan. These are things that won't cause much fear or trouble, because they are low risk and high benefit.
The next stages are where things get dicey. Those next stages are beginning of the era of enhancement. With birth defects and genetic disorders, including susceptibility to disease being things of the past, the next step is enhancement and you are right to question who will get to decide what enhancements are given and to whom. Things can go bad in many ways. One way is that only the rich and powerful will get enhancements, leaving the rest of us in the dust in a major way that cannot be corrected. This is a dark place that we don't want to find ourselves in. Most of us will be true second class citizens and far lesser creatures than the enhanced people, with their artificially enhanced cognitive abilities, computational abilities, increased eye sight, hearing and more, not to mention physical strength, bodily resilience to trauma etc.
In this scenario, people won't be hating enhancements, they will be begging for them for the sake of equality, but they won't get them.
Another bad scenario is that everyone ends up being required to have enhancements, either by law or by the way society treats those who choose not to have them. Society may look down on those who don't have them, so the social pressure to get your infant enhanced will be tremendous, yet with the enhancements you are a part of a networked species and privacy is a thing of the past and we are vulnerable to being abused.
The fears are justified, and that's why we should move forward cautiously and democratically with a clear moral blueprint laid out well before we need it.
I didn't get my ideas from this website. Instead I discovered the website while searching for material about my ideas. To my surprise, this train of thought is well embraced by quite a few.

http://humanityplus.org/philosophy/transhumanist-declaration/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU1-YFbAifA

We are living fossils.

Interesting, I have listened to many folks that think this is the exact path of our evolution.

 

[moonbogg]

Interesting, I have listened to many folks that think this is the exact path of our evolution.

Yeah, its fun to talk about but it doesn't matter for us. We're gonna die, brother. My kids, or my kids kids? Who knows.

 

[lotus503]

Yeah, its fun to talk about but it doesn't matter for us. We're gonna die, brother. My kids, or my kids kids? Who knows.

Ray Kurzweil is banking on the fact you are wrong and thinks it will start to occur in our lifetime. Its not that it will immediately happen but science will prolong life and then prolong it more etc etc.

That said he has the money to be first so maybe for him this lifetime.

 

[moonbogg]

Ray Kurzweil is banking on the fact you are wrong and thinks it will start to occur in our lifetime. Its not that it will immediately happen but science will prolong life and then prolong it more etc etc.

That said he has the money to be first so maybe for him this lifetime.

LOL, yeah no kidding. I have a glimmer of hope, but I won't hold my breath. I concede that its possible that by the time I'm 60 or 70, gene therapy might have taken huge strides and could be available to anyone with a decent insurance plan. That could lengthen the life span long enough to reach the next break through and then the next and so on, as you said.

 

[Muse]

Overpopulation

an aging populace

global warming

depletion of nonrenewable natural resources

ecological stresses including reduced quality of agricultural production, extinctions and threats of such

deteriorating quality of life by virtue of several of the above
- - - -
Of course all of the above are current ongoing problems with no easy answers
- - - -
"Every man casts a shadow; not his body only, but his imperfectly mingled spirit. This is his grief. Let him turn which way he will, it falls opposite to the sun; short at noon, long at eve. Did you never see it?" - Henry David Thoreau

 

[ichie]

In my opinion, this century future is unknown. All of us are afraid of death. But we should be optimistic. Like Star Trek. Earth is great developed, universe is amazing.

 

[norseamd]

environment and corruption are two of the worst ones. overpopulation can be dealt with. desalination plants and vertical farming are a big plus. also robots will put most people out of work in not that long so either some sort of socialism will be needed or there will be massive class warfare. i am not as worried about gene modification as nano robots infecting people.

 

[norseamd]

what do you think will be able to be mined from the moon and asteroids. will it work fairly well.

 

[ralfy]

For this century, it's financial instability, peak oil, and global warming. For the next century, food.

 

[SMOGZINN]

For this century, it's financial instability, peak oil, and global warming. For the next century, food.

I don't foresee food ever really being a problem. We currently only use a small percentage of the land for food production and even less for habitation. If necessary we could ramp up food production considerably. Water is the only real limiting factor.
If really needed we could take to the oceans in massive oceanic-hydroponic farms that would make all of the current worlds food production look like a back yard vegetable garden. People would just have to change what sort of things they ate.

The real problem with food will be the same one we have today, how to distribute it and to whom.