Real insight into the Palestinian - Israeli conflict - Ask anything

[Soultrape]

Ok, i've just finished reading a hidious 'expert' try and explain the conflict in the most retarted way possible, And partially outraged, and partially interested, I figured i'd answer questions that "Westerns" might want answered. I'm an Israel arab Palestinian (Israeli Citizen, native Arabs which naturally are Palestinian), I will try and give the truth 'as it is' and as it is percieved as well.

Shoot.

 

[MegaWorks]

you work for the mossad?

 

[Soultrape]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
you work for the mossad?

Naa, there are 1.2 million arabs [Palestinians] in israel, who are Israeli citizens (with blue ID's ^_^). (out of the ~6.2 million, population)

 

[Czar]

lets see how this goes
Why wasnt the wall built on the green line?

 

[Soultrape]

What do all men with power want? More Power.

Sure, you'll hear everyone claiming its for security reasons, it was needed and demanded by the security forces... Ask yourself this, why even in the Oslo peace talks, and the following implementation, Israel continued building Settlements in Palestinian land that it was Going to return? Seems to Contradict with the very essense of the peace talks right?

Yes, Two questions pop up, What are Israel's intentions, Peace or temporary Peace. As long as the world/US backs up Israel, they'd naturally want to 'Win' the most out of a peace deal, and to Deal you need to Barter, and to Bartner you need something to Barter with.

first, it was settlements, now add more concrete land, siezed. What options does this give israel? For one, Bartering cards, win more, give back what wasn't yours anyways -> Free Win.

On the other hand, if Israel decides Not to push the peace forward (If you listen to what the people talk about around here, you'd be shocked), It'd have more land to build on, pushes the Palestinians into even more desperation and extremists, which they could then blame as terrorism and keep things rolling.

Logical Aye?

 

[alchemize]

Why did you (or your parents) become Israeli citizens?

 

[lozina]

Why do Palestinian militants continue to bomb Israeli civilians?

Yes the Israeli army use tanks, helicopters and jets all subsidized to them from good 'ol USA and Palestinians have nothing to defend themselves with, but their only hope is to get the world to realize their plight and see the desperate situation they are in. When they resort to suicide bombings on civilians, it gets broadcasted the world over and Israelis naturally take the opportunity to use their media influence to convince people all Palestinians are bloodthirsty savages. So each suicide bombing sets the Palestinian cause further back and puts them in a worse situation, so it seems like these Palestinians terror organizations are actually working against the people they supposedly fight for. Why?

 

[SherEPunjab]

Originally posted by: lozina
Why do Palestinian militants continue to bomb Israeli civilians?

Yes the Israeli army use tanks, helicopters and jets all subsidized to them from good 'ol USA and Palestinians have nothing to defend themselves with, but their only hope is to get the world to realize their plight and see the desperate situation they are in. When they resort to suicide bombings on civilians, it gets broadcasted the world over and Israelis naturally take the opportunity to use their media influence to convince people all Palestinians are bloodthirsty savages. So each suicide bombing sets the Palestinian cause further back and puts them in a worse situation, so it seems like these Palestinians terror organizations are actually working against the people they supposedly fight for. Why?

as they have been told many times, they could apply Ghandian tactics. I have never seen a muslim organization partake in passive resistance though.

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: SherEPunjab

Originally posted by: lozina
Why do Palestinian militants continue to bomb Israeli civilians?

Yes the Israeli army use tanks, helicopters and jets all subsidized to them from good 'ol USA and Palestinians have nothing to defend themselves with, but their only hope is to get the world to realize their plight and see the desperate situation they are in. When they resort to suicide bombings on civilians, it gets broadcasted the world over and Israelis naturally take the opportunity to use their media influence to convince people all Palestinians are bloodthirsty savages. So each suicide bombing sets the Palestinian cause further back and puts them in a worse situation, so it seems like these Palestinians terror organizations are actually working against the people they supposedly fight for. Why?

as they have been told many times, they could apply Ghandian tactics. I have never seen a muslim organization partake in passive resistance though.

because Ghandi tactics are not going to work with the Israelis

 

[Tom]

The bottom line reason for the conflict is the Palestinians, and many other Arabs, think the way Israel was created was unjust.

They tried to undo it by force and lost.

Unless they are willing to accept that, which many aren't, the current situation will go on. It isn't complicated.

 

[SherEPunjab]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: SherEPunjab

Originally posted by: lozina
Why do Palestinian militants continue to bomb Israeli civilians?

Yes the Israeli army use tanks, helicopters and jets all subsidized to them from good 'ol USA and Palestinians have nothing to defend themselves with, but their only hope is to get the world to realize their plight and see the desperate situation they are in. When they resort to suicide bombings on civilians, it gets broadcasted the world over and Israelis naturally take the opportunity to use their media influence to convince people all Palestinians are bloodthirsty savages. So each suicide bombing sets the Palestinian cause further back and puts them in a worse situation, so it seems like these Palestinians terror organizations are actually working against the people they supposedly fight for. Why?

as they have been told many times, they could apply Ghandian tactics. I have never seen a muslim organization partake in passive resistance though.

because Ghandi tactics are not going to work with the Israelis

the british were EXTREMELY cruel, and they were the strongest empire in the world at the time. They would tie independence activists to the ends of canons and fire the canons disintegrating their bodies. If it can work with them, definitely it can work with the Israelis.

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: SherEPunjab

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: SherEPunjab

Originally posted by: lozina
Why do Palestinian militants continue to bomb Israeli civilians?

Yes the Israeli army use tanks, helicopters and jets all subsidized to them from good 'ol USA and Palestinians have nothing to defend themselves with, but their only hope is to get the world to realize their plight and see the desperate situation they are in. When they resort to suicide bombings on civilians, it gets broadcasted the world over and Israelis naturally take the opportunity to use their media influence to convince people all Palestinians are bloodthirsty savages. So each suicide bombing sets the Palestinian cause further back and puts them in a worse situation, so it seems like these Palestinians terror organizations are actually working against the people they supposedly fight for. Why?

as they have been told many times, they could apply Ghandian tactics. I have never seen a muslim organization partake in passive resistance though.

because Ghandi tactics are not going to work with the Israelis

the british were EXTREMELY cruel, and they were the strongest empire in the world at the time. They would tie independence activists to the ends of canons and fire the canons disintegrating their bodies. If it can work with them, definitely it can work with the Israelis.

yeah sure, man what a joke

go ahead and try it yourself then come back and tell me how it went, that is if you come back

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: Soultrape
Ok, i've just finished reading a hidious 'expert' try and explain the conflict in the most retarted way possible, And partially outraged, and partially interested, I figured i'd answer questions that "Westerns" might want answered. I'm an Israel arab Palestinian (Israeli Citizen, native Arabs which naturally are Palestinian), I will try and give the truth 'as it is' and as it is percieved as well.

Shoot.

salaam alaykum bsem Isa


1. are you aware there has never been a nation called "palestine"?

2.are you also aware the roman province of judea was renamed palestine was named after the bar kochba revolt?

3. are you aware the arabs that call themselves "palestinians" are in no way related to the philistines of old? they were not even arabs.

4. why does arafat sound like an egyptian when he speaks?

 

[Soultrape]

Originally posted by: lozina
Why do Palestinian militants continue to bomb Israeli civilians?

Yes the Israeli army use tanks, helicopters and jets all subsidized to them from good 'ol USA and Palestinians have nothing to defend themselves with, but their only hope is to get the world to realize their plight and see the desperate situation they are in. When they resort to suicide bombings on civilians, it gets broadcasted the world over and Israelis naturally take the opportunity to use their media influence to convince people all Palestinians are bloodthirsty savages. So each suicide bombing sets the Palestinian cause further back and puts them in a worse situation, so it seems like these Palestinians terror organizations are actually working against the people they supposedly fight for. Why?

Stupidity. There's alot of stupidity going on within the militant groups, don't forget that most if not all aren't well educated, and the more Israel hits the 'older generation', the younger, more Rash militants takes control of 'units'. I have no explenation, it's slowly getting into the Israeli arab, maybe even to the palestinian public (if not already, as I'm in Israel, and not over there) that those bombings are hurting them to unbelievable extents. Then again, they have been under occupation since 1967 (1948 if you look at the bigger picture), and nothing changed, no one helped, the world only stood by as Israel took more and more shots at them... So, I guess its as desperate as it gets...

Why did you (or your parents) become Israeli citizens?

We're the local Natives, as in, we were here before Israel existed, palestinians (though not named as such, as there were no borders between arab terretories while under foriegn occupation) have been here for Centuries, most jews 'came back' or Started coming to Palestine/Israel around the late 1890's. So if your question was answered by that, good. If your question is why we Agreed to take the Israeli ID's when it was formed, well, No idea, i didn't live back then, but isn't it what usually happens when a nation is occupied? You either agree, or fight till the death, those who were forced out of the borders weren't let back in (and thus couldn't become citizens), and those who hid/managed to stay in, eventually got ID's.

The bottom line reason for the conflict is the Palestinians, and many other Arabs, think the way Israel was created was unjust.

They tried to undo it by force and lost.

Unless they are willing to accept that, which many aren't, the current situation will go on. It isn't complicated.

I'm not sure if you fully understand reason and logic, justice and acceptance, but I'm not sure you realize that Tanks aim towards your House daily (now they are taking down civilian housing as well), occupying your territory (which, you actually lived in, Yesterday, and i do mean Yesterday, Now...) and throwing you out. Building Walls, making you not only occupied but also a prisoner on a constant basis. I could bring you real life stories that happen to the masses (and played on Israeli TV, no propaganda needed, articles put on the Israeli news...) that might trigger the human part of you that denies the basic needs of a nation to live in dignity and respect. The crushing majority are not militants, they do not take on guns and shoot out of windows, they are sons and daughters, hard working men and women, living a daily Hell.

Anything else guys?

 

[Soultrape]

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK

Originally posted by: Soultrape
Ok, i've just finished reading a hidious 'expert' try and explain the conflict in the most retarted way possible, And partially outraged, and partially interested, I figured i'd answer questions that "Westerns" might want answered. I'm an Israel arab Palestinian (Israeli Citizen, native Arabs which naturally are Palestinian), I will try and give the truth 'as it is' and as it is percieved as well.

Shoot.

salaam alaykum bsem Isa


1. are you aware there has never been a nation called "palestine"?

2.are you also aware the roman province of judea was renamed palestine was named after the bar kochba revolt?

3. are you aware the arabs that call themselves "palestinians" are in no way related to the philistines of old? they were not even arabs.

4. why does arafat sound like an egyptian when he speaks?

1. To be Palestinian is not to have a State, "Palestinian" is a word that implies a connection (I'm a Matrix buff ). You cannot deny people lived here for over 700-1000 years, they had their social organization, structures, culture, traditions, language and especially literature, to say that "Palestinians" do not exist because there was no State (which was due to the fact that 1/2 the damn world occupied us), atleast we didn't die slowly, and kept the culture going. And thus, a Palestinian is someone that lived in the region, and was brought up based on those cultures and traditions... much like any nation around the world.

2. Yes
3. Yes

4. Because he's about to drop and die? The fellow switched from being a militant, to a diplomat (maybe not the best of them) to a politician (same note), escaping Israeli assasination over a Dozzen times (Want articles? Plane shootings, poisoning, you name it)

 

[Napalm]

I don't mean to be harsh, but what makes you think you have any "insight" into the Palestinina/Israeli conflict?? Because you live there and are an Israeli Arab?? So what. I am a Canadian living in Toronto, Ontario. Does this give me any "insight" into the conflict that has gone on for years between the federal, provincial and civic governments. No.

What you and I have is first hand experience of the impact of such conflict on average citizens. We do not have inherent insight by virtue of our citizenship or place of residence...

Edit: In no way am I trying to equate the Israeli/Palestinian conflict to the federal/provincial/civic conflict in Canada - I am simply using these as examples of complex issues which the citizenry is exposed to, but does not necessarily have insight by virtue of this exposure.

 

[syzygy]

Originally posted by: Soultrape
Ok, i've just finished reading a hidious 'expert' try and explain the conflict in the most retarted way possible, And partially outraged, and partially interested, I figured i'd answer questions that "Westerns" might want answered. I'm an Israel arab Palestinian (Israeli Citizen, native Arabs which naturally are Palestinian), I will try and give the truth 'as it is' and as it is percieved as well.

Shoot.

no shooting please. name of the book written by this 'hideous' expert ?

 

[Soultrape]

Originally posted by: Napalm
I don't mean to be harsh, but what makes you think you have any "insight" into the Palestinina/Israeli conflict?? Because you live there and are an Israeli Arab?? So what. I am a Canadian living in Toronto, Ontario. Does this give me any "insight" into the conflict that has gone on for years between the federal, provincial and civic governments. No.

What you and I have is first hand experience of the impact of such conflict on average citizens. We do not have inherent insight by virtue of our citizenship or place of residence...

Edit: In no way am I trying to equate the Israeli/Palestinian conflict to the federal/provincial/civic conflict in Canada - I am simply using these as examples of complex issues which the citizenry is exposed to, but does not necessarily have insight by virtue of this exposure.

Well, true, but I consider myself an intellect, with the bigger picture in mind, after all our life is directly affected by world happenings, local policies and such. It's my insight, my personal (through collective reading, discussing [even with Israeli parties, international parties]) analysis, All i can garantuee is my truth...

As for that Hidious part, it was a thread right here, some 'expert' on mid-east matters, just plain wrong, figured i'd chip in.

 

[r0tt3n1]

Is there any truth to the `plan` to overpopulate the area with `native` Palestinians to force Isreal into a minority status, thereby resting control and eventually the end of the Isreali state? I dont have exact figures, but there has been a `baby boom` for the past decades there....

 

[Tom]

"Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The bottom line reason for the conflict is the Palestinians, and many other Arabs, think the way Israel was created was unjust.

They tried to undo it by force and lost.

Unless they are willing to accept that, which many aren't, the current situation will go on. It isn't complicated.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I'm not sure if you fully understand reason and logic, justice and acceptance, but I'm not sure you realize that Tanks aim towards your House daily (now they are taking down civilian housing as well), occupying your territory (which, you actually lived in, Yesterday, and i do mean Yesterday, Now...) and throwing you out. Building Walls, making you not only occupied but also a prisoner on a constant basis. I could bring you real life stories that happen to the masses (and played on Israeli TV, no propaganda needed, articles put on the Israeli news...) that might trigger the human part of you that denies the basic needs of a nation to live in dignity and respect. The crushing majority are not militants, they do not take on guns and shoot out of windows, they are sons and daughters, hard working men and women, living a daily Hell."
____________________________________________________________________________________

I understand what you say. But it contains no reason or logic. These are the words of a people who feel they have been wronged and treated unjustly, and are struggling to undo that perceived injustice, whatever way they can.

My opinion is that even if the Arabs were right about the injustice that created Israel to begin with, they already had their chance to correct the situation and they lost. In winning that battle, Israel fully earned the right to exist, that is what happens in war. The old claims, that the Arabs still cling to, about the original creation of Israel were completely and utterly vacated when the Arabs decided to try to undo that creation, by force, and failed.

But there are a great many Arabs that do not accept this, in fact I don't know that any Arabs really accept it as a just outcome.

And at this point, they don't have to accept it, if they don't though it isn't realistic to expect that Israel isn't going to fight back against those who seek to destroy it.

 

[Soultrape]

Originally posted by: r0tt3n1
Is there any truth to the `plan` to overpopulate the area with `native` Palestinians to force Isreal into a minority status, thereby resting control and eventually the end of the Isreali state? I dont have exact figures, but there has been a `baby boom` for the past decades there....

Haha, no, its what is Happening, to a degree, but it's not a 'plan' it's just that normally, arab folk here have more babies than jews, that's all whats to it. there's no secret "TakeOver Israel" plan, hell, I wouldn't Want anyone else but the Israeli's (arab country wise) to run it, i just think the administration Sucks (from a Western point of view), it discriminates, it invests too much in war, too little in education and reconsiliation between the local Arabs and Jews (we are 20% of the population...), investment wise, and I think more should go into developing the local arabs, putting more money, infostructure, after all (unless they plan to throw us out, which is slowly becoming more and more realistic) we are going to live together, and We have been doing just that, Peacefully, for over 45 years...

so, No, there's no takeover plan Then again, what would happen to the finance minister in your democratic country if he called a local Minority, law obiding, working, peaceful, educated one, a "Demographic Threat", that's what happened here, by the former Israeli prime minister... Benyamin Netanyahu.

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
"Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The bottom line reason for the conflict is the Palestinians, and many other Arabs, think the way Israel was created was unjust.

They tried to undo it by force and lost.

Unless they are willing to accept that, which many aren't, the current situation will go on. It isn't complicated.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I'm not sure if you fully understand reason and logic, justice and acceptance, but I'm not sure you realize that Tanks aim towards your House daily (now they are taking down civilian housing as well), occupying your territory (which, you actually lived in, Yesterday, and i do mean Yesterday, Now...) and throwing you out. Building Walls, making you not only occupied but also a prisoner on a constant basis. I could bring you real life stories that happen to the masses (and played on Israeli TV, no propaganda needed, articles put on the Israeli news...) that might trigger the human part of you that denies the basic needs of a nation to live in dignity and respect. The crushing majority are not militants, they do not take on guns and shoot out of windows, they are sons and daughters, hard working men and women, living a daily Hell."
____________________________________________________________________________________

I understand what you say. But it contains no reason or logic. These are the words of a people who feel they have been wronged and treated unjustly, and are struggling to undo that perceived injustice, whatever way they can.

My opinion is that even if the Arabs were right about the injustice that created Israel to begin with, they already had their chance to correct the situation and they lost. In winning that battle, Israel fully earned the right to exist, that is what happens in war. The old claims, that the Arabs still cling to, about the original creation of Israel were completely and utterly vacated when the Arabs decided to try to undo that creation, by force, and failed.

But there are a great many Arabs that do not accept this, in fact I don't know that any Arabs really accept it as a just outcome.

And at this point, they don't have to accept it, if they don't though it isn't realistic to expect that Israel isn't going to fight back against those who seek to destroy it.

You are confusing the Palestinians with the Arabs who invaded Israel at the onset- namely Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Jordan... As someone mentioned, there wasn't an official state of 'Palestine' so there was no Palestinian army that invaded ISrael either. So to say the Palestinians forfeit their right to a state because some Arab nations marched through their territory towards Israel and lost is utterly illogical.

You are putting bame on Palestinians for that invasion by Arab states, almost like blaming Belgium for Germany's invasion into France.

 

[Soultrape]

I understand what you say. But it contains no reason or logic. These are the words of a people who feel they have been wronged and treated unjustly, and are struggling to undo that perceived injustice, whatever way they can.

My opinion is that even if the Arabs were right about the injustice that created Israel to begin with, they already had their chance to correct the situation and they lost. In winning that battle, Israel fully earned the right to exist, that is what happens in war. The old claims, that the Arabs still cling to, about the original creation of Israel were completely and utterly vacated when the Arabs decided to try to undo that creation, by force, and failed.

But there are a great many Arabs that do not accept this, in fact I don't know that any Arabs really accept it as a just outcome.

And at this point, they don't have to accept it, if they don't though it isn't realistic to expect that Israel isn't going to fight back against those who seek to destroy it.

I think you're picturing things wrongly, we're not speaking of arab countries (Saudia Arabia proposed a peace deal/framework to Israel, in which if they withdraw to the 1967 borders, which is what Israel is without The currently Palestinian populated area's with minimal israeli/jewish presense), if they did withdraw, Israel would get FULL ARAB WORLD Normalization, which is obviously the road to peace (Normalization as in no more war, and the start of neutrality, opening ways for diplomatic channels in order to strive for peace).

ok, that side note was big, i think you're reffering to arab countries, check http://www.masada2000.org/GreenL-opt.gif - Thats what is called the Green Line, the greet part is where Palestinians live now, the West bank and Gaza, occupied terretories in 1967 (while being in a Truce with Israel, Israel invaded, thats why its considered Occupied territories internationally), Jewish presense there is minimal, mostly through settlements (people Put in there intentionally to Be there, and populate).

What the palestinians are demanding, or fighting for in that area, is to be Independant, remove the israeli military, it's normal, Occupation, as the UK occupied India, only Israeli's do not give any [profound] services, and surely does not invest into the land. Not to mention the occupied palestinians do not have Israeli ID's, so they are somewhat 'In the Air', Occupied, with no rights regarding the State that occupies them. Obviously there are sub-issues, like East Jerusalem (again, majority is arab palestinians, minimal jewish presense), Water rights and terretory independance.

 

[Tom]

"You are confusing the Palestinians with the Arabs who invaded Israel at the onset- namely Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Jordan... As someone mentioned, there wasn't an official state of 'Palestine' so there was no Palestinian army that invaded ISrael either. So to say the Palestinians forfeit their right to a state because some Arab nations marched through their territory towards Israel and lost is utterly illogical.

You are putting bame on Palestinians for that invasion by Arab states, almost like blaming Belgium for Germany's invasion into France."
________________________________________________________________________________

Which is it ? You say there was no Palestine, but then you say these other Arabs marched through "their territory" on the way to Israel.

If you are going to construct a new history not based on reality you should be more careful.

And I did not say the Palestinians forfeit their right to a state, I said that Israel eviscerated any claims that they were founded in an injust way by defeating the forces which make that claim, in battle.

 

[Tom]

"

I think you're picturing things wrongly, we're not speaking of arab countries (Saudia Arabia proposed a peace deal/framework to Israel, in which if they withdraw to the 1967 borders, which is what Israel is without The currently Palestinian populated area's with minimal israeli/jewish presense), if they did withdraw, Israel would get FULL ARAB WORLD Normalization, which is obviously the road to peace (Normalization as in no more war, and the start of neutrality, opening ways for diplomatic channels in order to strive for peace).

ok, that side note was big, i think you're reffering to arab countries, check http://www.masada2000.org/GreenL-opt.gif - Thats what is called the Green Line, the greet part is where Palestinians live now, the West bank and Gaza, occupied terretories in 1967 (while being in a Truce with Israel, Israel invaded, thats why its considered Occupied territories internationally), Jewish presense there is minimal, mostly through settlements (people Put in there intentionally to Be there, and populate).

What the palestinians are demanding, or fighting for in that area, is to be Independant, remove the israeli military, it's normal, Occupation, as the UK occupied India, only Israeli's do not give any [profound] services, and surely does not invest into the land. Not to mention the occupied palestinians do not have Israeli ID's, so they are somewhat 'In the Air', Occupied, with no rights regarding the State that occupies them. Obviously there are sub-issues, like East Jerusalem (again, majority is arab palestinians, minimal jewish presense), Water rights and terretory independance.

___________________________________________________________________________________________

A summation of everything you said that is quoted above illustrates my point.

The Palestinans, and other Arabs, which you try to seperate but are actually all part of the same ongoing conflict, refuse to accept the fact that they lost a war, and therefore feel that they should be able to dictate, not negotiate, the terms of any settlement.