Real estate commissions likely to change forever

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
12,055
2,766
136
Due to litigation, there is a settlement that could do away with the current 6% total commission for the buyer and seller's agents in a real estate sale and replace it with some other process of compensation.

 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,060
24,366
136
The 6% commission is a myth at least in my competitive market. 4-5% has been the standard for the last few years. I can't believe this market is the only one where 6% is basically extinct, but there are a lot of myths about all sorts of industries out there.
 
Nov 17, 2019
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'Some other process', that could be more complicated, convoluted, less transparent and likely will cost both buyer and seller more overall.

Why was a fixed, known rate a problem?
 
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IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,415
32,998
136
'Some other process', that could be more complicated, convoluted, less transparent and likely will cost both buyer and seller more overall.

Why was a fixed, known rate a problem?
The rate was imposed by the agents cartel through collusion and price fixing, not through market action. The rake agents are taking is not in any way connected to the value the agents provide,
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,060
24,366
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The rate was imposed by the agents cartel through collusion and price fixing, not through market action. The rake agents are taking is not in any way connected to the value the agents provide,
This is because you have no idea what a good agent can provide. Also I'm pretty sure from previous conversations on this subject you have no idea how the commission splits really work and how much agents actually walk away with.

Indeed, bad Realtors don't provide good service and are thus overpaid, but you are clueless about what full-time experienced smart and ethical realtors do. Not to mention how insane some of the people who deal with are.
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
12,055
2,766
136
This is because you have no idea what a good agent can provide. Also I'm pretty sure from previous conversations on this subject you have no idea how the commission splits really work and how much agents actually walk away with.

Indeed, bad Realtors don't provide good service and are thus overpaid, but you are clueless about what full-time experienced smart and ethical realtors do. Not to mention how insane some of the people who deal with are.
Like .01% of the realtor population?
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
22,090
6,345
136
'Some other process', that could be more complicated, convoluted, less transparent and likely will cost both buyer and seller more overall.

Why was a fixed, known rate a problem?
Because it was fixed amount. There was no connection between time invested, cost of doing business, value added, and the amount charged.
 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,136
622
126
The 6% commission is a myth at least in my competitive market. 4-5% has been the standard for the last few years. I can't believe this market is the only one where 6% is basically extinct, but there are a lot of myths about all sorts of industries out there.
Let's see, house purchased in 2014 for $550k...current value around $950k. Pretty nice commission even at 2%.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,041
14,446
146
The next thing that needs to be changed is the way we sell our houses. If you offer your house for $XYZ, then sell it for $XYZ, don’t use that amount as the opener for an auction/bidding war. If you want MORE than $XYZ for your house, list it for what you actually want. (and, yes, if you don’t get offers for that amount, you can accept lower offers…just stop the whole bidding war bullshit.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,060
24,366
136
Let's see, house purchased in 2014 for $550k...current value around $950k. Pretty nice commission even at 2%.
Sure. I would agree. But how do you think that 2% commission of $20,000 gets split up to the actual agent, and vs the potential work they did.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,060
24,366
136
The next thing that needs to be changed is the way we sell our houses. If you offer your house for $XYZ, then sell it for $XYZ, don’t use that amount as the opener for an auction/bidding war. If you want MORE than $XYZ for your house, list it for what you actually want. (and, yes, if you don’t get offers for that amount, you can accept lower offers…just stop the whole bidding war bullshit.
You want to ban bidding wars? That is some serious regulation there let me tell you.

I had six showings today, my clients are putting in three offers. Every home went on the market last week, open houses this weekend, and all best and final offers are due Tuesday. Until we build a shit ton more housing, this is the world we live in. As progressive as I am banning bidding wars is a little crazy government overreach. The solution to this inventory issue is radically changing zoning laws and building a lot more inventory, and I do think do it with the most incentives for affordable housing, and also mandate a 10-15% affordable housing rule for projects X size or bigger.
 
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BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,041
14,446
146
Sure. I would agree. But how do you think that 2% commission of $20,000 gets split up to the actual agent, and vs the potential work they did.

My understanding from realtors we've known...the commission is split 50/50 between buying agent and selling agent (presuming they work for/with an agency)...then each splits the commission with their agency...generally 50/50, leaving each agent with about 25% of the original commission amount.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,041
14,446
146
You want to ban bidding wars? That is some serious regulation there let me tell you.

I had six showings today, my clients are putting in three offers. Every home went on the market last week, open houses this weekend, and all best and final offers are due Tuesday. Until we build a shit ton more housing, this is the world we live in. As progressive as I am banning bidding wars is a little crazy government overreach. The solution to this inventory issue is radically changing zoning laws and building a lot more inventory, and I do think do it with the most incentives for affordable housing, and also mandate a 10-15% affordable housing rule for projects X size or bigger.

Then why set a selling price if you know/want a bidding war? Say you list your property for $500,000, but you expect bidding war to drive it to $750,000. (actual comp value is $500,000, but the market is the market)
Why not just set the selling price at $750,000...if no one wants it at that price, accept a lower offer.

you don't go to the grocery store to buy a gallon of milk for $4.00...but have to outbid 10 other people to get it for $8.00.
 
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brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
24,603
5,998
136
i was thinking about trying to buy a house this year

now i wonder if i should hurry up and get something before the whole industry falls apart

or if prices might actually go down if i wait
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,041
14,446
146
i was thinking about trying to buy a house this year

now i wonder if i should hurry up and get something before the whole industry falls apart

or if prices might actually go down if i wait

We've talked about selling our house while the market here is pretty strong...but with the mortgage interest rate being so high...not gonna happen. We're at about 2.5% now...I think current rates are over 6.5 or 7%
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,060
24,366
136
Then why set a selling price if you know/want a bidding war? Say you list your property for $500,000, but you expect bidding war to drive it to $750,000. (actual comp value is $500,000, but the market is the market)
Why not just set the selling price at $750,000...if no one wants it at that price, accept a lower offer.

you don't go to the grocery store to buy a gallon of milk for $4.00...but have to outbid 10 other people to get it for $8.00.
Well, you just can't compare a home to grocery items. It just doesn't work. Never mind the crazy difference in supply and demand, but just the product categories.
 
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brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
24,603
5,998
136
We've talked about selling our house while the market here is pretty strong...but with the mortgage interest rate being so high...not gonna happen. We're at about 2.5% now...I think current rates are over 6.5 or 7%

yep exactly. many people are stuck with the prices and mortgages rates being so high now relative to several years ago, so it all seems like it's in limbo.

throw this realtor thing into the mix and i don't think things will be at an equilibrium again until maybe 10 years from now.

instead of getting a house i want, i'll probably buy the smallest house i can stand and live with it for a decade until the market gets better.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,415
32,998
136
Then why set a selling price if you know/want a bidding war? Say you list your property for $500,000, but you expect bidding war to drive it to $750,000. (actual comp value is $500,000, but the market is the market)
Why not just set the selling price at $750,000...if no one wants it at that price, accept a lower offer.

you don't go to the grocery store to buy a gallon of milk for $4.00...but have to outbid 10 other people to get it for $8.00.
Auction is about the best way to determine a price as it reflects the current market. This is why the commission structure for agents stank, no price finding allowed.
 

bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
7,262
2,759
146
I don't have a lot of experience in real estate or claim to know how it all works. My most recent experience was around 5 years ago when we bought our current home.

The only thing our realtor did was allow us to get into the homes we were interested in looking at. She never contacted us about potential listings that might suit our criteria or offered any insight into the homes we went and looked at with her.

All she did was answer the phone when we called then made an appointment to go see a home we were interested in. When we found one that we both agreed would fit our needs she collected her 6.5% commission.

We did all the leg work via www.realtor.com and she did very little.
 
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IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,415
32,998
136
I don't have a lot of experience in real estate or claim to know how it all works. My most recent experience was around 5 years ago when we bought our current home.

The only thing our realtor did was allow us to get into the homes we were interested in looking at. She never contacted us about potential listings that might suit our criteria or offered any insight into the homes we went and looked at with her.

All she did was answer the phone when we called then made an appointment to go see a home we were interested in. When we found one that we both agreed would fit our needs she collected her 6.5% commission.

We did all the leg work via www.realtor.com and she did very little.
1710716031158.png
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,041
14,446
146
Well, you just can't compare a home to grocery items. It just doesn't work. Never mind the crazy difference in supply and demand, but just the product categories.
IIRC, you're in the biz...right? This bidding war stuff works great for you as a selling agent...more commission to you.

I don't have a lot of experience in real estate or claim to know how it all works. My most recent experience was around 5 years ago when we bought our current home.

The only thing our realtor did was allow us to get into the homes we were interested in looking at. She never contacted us about potential listings that might suit our criteria or offered any insight into the homes we went and looked at with her.

All she did was answer the phone when we called then made an appointment to go see a home we were interested in. When we found one that we both agreed would fit our needs she collected her 6.5% commission.

We did all the leg work via www.realtor.com and she did very little.

Exactly. We had one realtor...25 years ago who was very pro-active in helping us buy a house. (our first one) She hooked us up with a good mortgage broker who helped us navigate all the BS involved...at the time, mortgage rates were high...we locked in at 7.25%...and before we closed, it was nearly 8%. Rates started falling a couple of years later and we re-financed at 5%...and again about 5 years later at 2.375%.
Otherwise, the last two houses we've bought, WE did the leg work of finding houses we were interested in...arranged our own financing, just used a realtor to show us the houses and handle the paperwork to earn their commission.
 
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IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,415
32,998
136
IIRC, you're in the biz...right? This bidding war stuff works great for you as a selling agent...more commission to you.
The buyer's agent has the same incentive, a perverse incentive to sell the most expensive house.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,060
24,366
136
yep exactly. many people are stuck with the prices and mortgages rates being so high now relative to several years ago, so it all seems like it's in limbo.

throw this realtor thing into the mix and i don't think things will be at an equilibrium again until maybe 10 years from now.

instead of getting a house i want, i'll probably buy the smallest house i can stand and live with it for a decade until the market gets better.
you aren't most buyers.

I don't have a lot of experience in real estate or claim to know how it all works. My most recent experience was around 5 years ago when we bought our current home.

The only thing our realtor did was allow us to get into the homes we were interested in looking at. She never contacted us about potential listings that might suit our criteria or offered any insight into the homes we went and looked at with her.

All she did was answer the phone when we called then made an appointment to go see a home we were interested in. When we found one that we both agreed would fit our needs she collected her 6.5% commission.

We did all the leg work via www.realtor.com and she did very little. I know this is a blanket statement but I would put my experience with real estate agents on par with car salesman.

That is not typical. At least for a hard-working full-time agent. Also I've never heard of a 6.5% commission on any home. Tops is 6%, and that is split between buyer's agent and seller's agent. So unless she got both sides she did not get near that. Then you take your commission and bring it back to your broker/team. If you are on a team, which so many are, you generally split that 50/50 - then you have to give your broker their cut, so usually 30% of what you get after your team. Then pay taxes.

If I could just be opening doors and selling homes that easy, I would kill and be first to admit I'm overpaid. So many deals fall apart. More deals are hairy than smooth. The egos and insane expectations people have is mind-boggling. Sure one side may be more on the reasonable side, but usually one is nutty to bonkers.

As far as once an offer is acce[ted, at least in this market you need to put a lot of work in to make sure it goes smooth. If you think people are dumb in general, for basic things, how do you think they are when buying a home? And even the smart ones may be great at some things in life, but their egos get in the way of a deal. Or they are just way too busy and they need someone to handhold them through the process. To me that is part of my job, so I am good at it and I do as much work as needed for any client. Last year I had at least 8 deals fall apart. Most after a ton of work was put in. That's with the buyers that made it to a deal. Others you work with for months or a year and then they never buy. Last year I worked with multiple buyers that each lost at least 10 bidding wars. Some of those people drop out of the market, all those hours, zero pay.

Now with zillow and the internet, finding the homes is easier for buyers. I measure each client individually. I always try to get them on the MLS alerts for what htey want, and have myself cc'd on every listing they get, and I look at each one. If I see one I know I don't want them to miss, I let them know. Because people either miss them, or may not consider the home, they are so honed in on certain things and would miss it. For one of the clients I worked with today. Million dollar budget. Two kids. Busy professional jobs. We are looking in like 7-8 townships. She's like we are so busy with work and the kids, I need you to hold our hands this whole process. I said of course, this is my job and I'm good at it. I said I'll send you listings, but also discussed them sending me listings as well for the first round to get some idea of their taste. So she sent me like 12. I said pick your top 6 we don't advise seeing more than 5-6 homes in a day. She said, you pick the ones we see today. So I did. I set up 6 appointments, we are putting in 2 offers and quite likely a 3rd. Rare for this to happen on day one. But we'll probably lose all of them.

The other buyer I'm putting in an offer with, I've been working with her for over a year. She has a smaller geographic location but also must have a single level ranch, as she is older. Ranches where she is looking are quite popular so there were places to see. But literally a year and over 15 showings, she put in no offer. We got close a few times, lots of talking to agents to negotiate, but nothing stuck. She is putting an offer in tomorrow on a total gut rehab. 400K. I'll bring back 2% IF we close. That's 8K. My team gets 50% (of which they pay the broker some too) so then I get 4K. But then I gotta give my broker 30% of that, so $1200 gone. I'm left with $2800, and I have to pay taxes out of that. I will get to deduct hundreds of miles in car usage for that deal, but it's still wear and tear. Still expenses.

After I sell X million of real estate and give my broker X amount of dollars from my 50% share, then I 'cap out' which means I don't have to give them 30% anymore. But you have to sell millions to get there. Also, if I have a client from my own circle of influence, my team only gets 30% not 50%. But all these clients I touched first through my team's resources. They spend a lot of money to get leads, both buyers and sellers. We also have an admin and a transaction manager, so we spend as little time doing administrative things and more time being client side because that's where our talents lie.

I also spend Mon-Thurs in the office from 9 until at least 1pm cold and warm calling, for sellers. Plus also pick an evening and a weekend hour or two to also do this to change up the cadence.

I have one listing I worked the guy for over a year now. Most of these people have a ton of people trying to get their business. You are lucky to get a listing appointment, let alone the listing. Anyway I got the listing, commission was 4% total, 2% to each side. He refused to listen to my pricing strategy so we sat on the market, got much lower offers. Took so long to list too, due to coordinating everything and massaging this guy's insane petulant ego the whole time. Anyway long story short, we accepted an offer but that fell through, home inspection. I'm showing it regularly. That's hours of my time. We also spent over 1K doing the marketing (photos, video tour, floor plans). Lowered the price to my price and got multiple offers. Then that deal fell apart due to the buyer not getting his commitment letter. So now we are out over a grand in cash, and a shit ton of time and have zero dollars for it. I mean these things happen all the time. Hopefully it sells.

I think the main brokerages get too much money from the agents. Also the vast vast majority of agents do not survive doing this full-time. Which is why some are not good at it, it takes a ton of experience to be a part of the process and see all the shit that can happen and go wrong and at least have a better shot to navigate it. Also some people are just lazy and they do absolutely suck at their job as a realtor. My friends in this business and my teammates, we hustle.
 
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bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
7,262
2,759
146
Exactly. We had one realtor...25 years ago who was very pro-active in helping us buy a house. (our first one) She hooked us up with a good mortgage broker who helped us navigate all the BS involved...at the time, mortgage rates were high...we locked in at 7.25%...and before we closed, it was nearly 8%. Rates started falling a couple of years later and we re-financed at 5%...and again about 5 years later at 2.375%.
Otherwise, the last two houses we've bought, WE did the leg work of finding houses we were interested in...arranged our own financing, just used a realtor to show us the houses and handle the paperwork to earn their commission.
I didn't even remember the backend stuff that you mentioned. We did all the work lining up the best bank to get the lowest rate we could because we wanted to keep our loan local. I know it's kind of weird but we have a thing when it comes to supporting local even if it's a bank.

Anyway, now you got me thinking about it even more. What the hell did I pay this lady 6.5% for? All she did was setup appointments for us.