Re: Install Vista Install Big brother / Blu-Ray HD-DVD

[L00ker]

Previous thread:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...did=1982987&STARTPAGE=10&enterthread=y

I found this thread interesting and there seemed to be quite the debate as to whether or not Vista would play HD content at all when there was a lack of HDCP in place, there seemed to be 2 schools of thought:

1. It will play but not at HD quality levels

2. It will not play, plain and simple


Well I just found this article where MS states plain and simple that it will not play:

High-quality DVDs will not operate on some Vista PCs

"Microsoft has been forced to acknowledge that a substantial number of PCs running the new version of its Windows operating system will not be able to play high-quality DVDs.

The Vista system will be available to consumers at the end of the month. However, in an interview with The Times, one of its chief architects said that because of anti-piracy protection granted to the Hollywood studios, Vista would not play HD-DVD and Blu-ray Discs on certain PCs. "

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9075-2536050,00.html


I really think the RIAA/MPAA Is going overboard at this point, now I know most of us know that HD DVD has already been cracked (and I wouldn't be surprised if Blu-Ray is far behind if it hasn't been cracked already) but really why should i as a consumer have to buy "special" hardware to play HD DVD videos? I mean HDCP drive/video card/monitor? While I understand that HDCP hardware will become more common there is no backwards compatibility for NON HDCP enabled users which hardly seems reasonable...

 

[MrChad]

I know most of us know that HD DVD has already been cracked

That's not true.

Frankly, I wonder if there's more to this story. The last I heard about it, Microsoft stated that ISV (Independent Software Vendors?) such as Cyberlink would have the final say in whether protected HD content would play on Vista.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060824-7590.html

Technically, you can say that DVDs will not operate on XP machines because a decoder is not included out of the box. I wonder if this is yet another misinterpretation.

 

[greylica]

All I can say is if they do not change this, the pirates will make a real party, it's far more simply to use the pirated content than a suck of those already cracked trash hardware. And if they force to, thwy have to wait for eight years before the users have computers with HDCP enabled hardware sufficient to make the protection true. I will not change my monitor only to be able to play HDV content if I am happy with the DVDs quality I already rent.
But this discussion already died, I have my own choice and you have your too, simoply do not buy, and when you have problems to play with your DVI connection, Buy an HDV player , that will be cheaper than a PC or than you can sue then to make them to change your media for a media playable.

For me this discussion is closed, I am a happy linuxer. Let them suffer withou money and they will change. May RIAA and MPAA discover that if they follow the industry, trying to work at lower prices and making real competition, they can offer films at lower prices and usability + low prices = kill piracy, but they are always wanting a river of money...

Who wants everything will stay with nothing .

 

[L00ker]

Originally posted by: MrChad

I know most of us know that HD DVD has already been cracked

That's not true.

Frankly, I wonder if there's more to this story. The last I heard about it, Microsoft stated that ISV (Independent Software Vendors?) such as Cyberlink would have the final say in whether protected HD content would play on Vista.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060824-7590.html

Technically, you can say that DVDs will not operate on XP machines because a decoder is not included out of the box. I wonder if this is yet another misinterpretation.

As far as HD-DVD being cracked...

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=119871

Theres the util... it's been done about I dunno a week or 2 now?

As for the rest, thats a good point I didn't think of it that way but I thought that you could play DVD's natively with Media player no? I know you can now but I am thinking when XP was new...

 

[gsellis]

What it says is that some content will not play on Vista. The content that will not play has content protection set by the studio so that it will only play if HDCP is present. The DVD-Forum and HD-DVD has been less aggressive about it, which appears to be part of the reason MS jumped from being a Blu-Ray supporter to a HD-DVD supporter. This will also be true on Macs. It will not play on XP or W2k either.

 

[MrChad]

Originally posted by: L00ker
As far as HD-DVD being cracked...

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=119871

Theres the util... it's been done about I dunno a week or 2 now?

As for the rest, thats a good point I didn't think of it that way but I thought that you could play DVD's natively with Media player no? I know you can now but I am thinking when XP was new...

I'm aware of BackupHDDVD. Even if its not an elaborate prank (no one has been able to reproduce the author's claimed results), it's not a crack of AACS. The program is simply a decryption tool for HD-DVD content, and it requires that the user supply the necessary title keys for decryption. Since these title keys are encrypted on the disc, there needs to be a reliable method to read them.

If there was a reliable way of extracting the title keys, such a method would be an exploit of a poorly written HD-DVD player. It would not be a crack of the AACS encryption scheme.

As for DVDs in XP, XP to this day does not ship with a licensed MPEG-2 codec and WMP will not play DVD content without installing such a codec (although nowadays there are many free versions available).

 

[Tegeril]

Why do we have another thread on this topic. No new information has been brought to the table.

Is the horse dead yet?

 

[MrChad]

Originally posted by: Tegeril
Why do we have another thread on this topic. No new information has been brought to the table.

Is the horse dead yet?

Well, since the OS forum usually only consists of

1. "Why won't my OS install?" threads,
2. "Should I disable my pagefile?" threads, and
3. "How does Windows licensing work?" threads

it's nice to mix things up. Now we can look forward to 535,232 Vista/DRM threads!

 

[JonnyBlaze]

from that article:

Dave Marsh, the lead program manager for video at Microsoft, said that if the PC used a digital connection to link with the monitor or television, then it would require the highest level of content protection, known as HDCP, to play the discs. If it did not have such protection, Vista would shut down the signal, he said.

thats nothing new. im sure any new systems purchased with blu-ray or hd-dvd players will have the right video card and monitor. if people purchase them afterwards i hope they would know what else they need.

 

[Nothinman]

I found this thread interesting and there seemed to be quite the debate as to whether or not Vista would play HD content at all when there was a lack of HDCP in place, there seemed to be 2 schools of thought:

1. It will play but not at HD quality levels

2. It will not play, plain and simple

Only media in protected formats. If you have a HD xvid file, non-protected HDDVD/Blu-Ray disc, etc it'll play fine.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: MrChad
As for DVDs in XP, XP to this day does not ship with a licensed MPEG-2 codec and WMP will not play DVD content without installing such a codec (although nowadays there are many free versions available).

Well, it ships with one, but because of licensing fee issues, it doesn't install by default. I recall seeing some "hack" to get it to install manually using some .inf files.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I thought that the interesting question was more along the lines of, if I buy an HDCP-enabled video card and monitor, is it true that you STILL cannot view HD-DVD/Blu-Ray movies on 32-bit versions of Vista, IFF the content-producers enable the "degrade" bit, because of issues protecting the kernel from unknown drivers on the 32-bit platform. (Aka no PatchGuard for the kernel in 32-bit). The question in my mind is - is there a definitive answer to this, and if it is true - are purchasers of 32-bit Vista being subtly decieved here, and will they only find out several years later that HD protected content will be locked-out from them once the degrade bit is set?

 

[VirtualLarry]

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9075-2536050,00.html

"Microsoft has built a component into the studios? new operating system, Vista, that recognises high-quality DVDs, called HD-DVD and Blu-ray discs, and checks whether the system on which the film is being played provides a sufficient level of protection

This protection, known as high definition content protection (HDCP), must be present throughout the entire system ? usually the computer, or a television. If it is not, Vista will disable the connection "

Hmm. According to that article, Vista is being brought to you by the record/movie studios, not by Microsoft. Perhaps an ironic shade of truth in that slip-up?

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
I thought that the interesting question was more along the lines of, if I buy an HDCP-enabled video card and monitor, is it true that you STILL cannot view HD-DVD/Blu-Ray movies on 32-bit versions of Vista, IFF the content-producers enable the "degrade" bit, because of issues protecting the kernel from unknown drivers on the 32-bit platform. (Aka no PatchGuard for the kernel in 32-bit). The question in my mind is - is there a definitive answer to this, and if it is true - are purchasers of 32-bit Vista being subtly decieved here, and will they only find out several years later that HD protected content will be locked-out from them once the degrade bit is set?

You missed the thread. MS is not releasing the component for 32-bit. This is a player piece and will be released by folks like InterVideo. Translation, just like WMP in the past, the current 32-bit one does not include all the pieces to play everything. 3rd party required. And if they did include it, some EU weenie would sue them in all liklihood.

 

[drag]

If there was a reliable way of extracting the title keys, such a method would be an exploit of a poorly written HD-DVD player. It would not be a crack of the AACS encryption scheme.

Most people's best guesses are that the author of the 'hack' is pulling keys from the memory of his OS when running a popular HD playback application.


Also it's a bit misleading to say that Vista won't playback HD. Vista will be allowed to playback full HD resolution of blueray/hd-dvd and such if there is no DRM on the disk. It's up to the creator of the disk to enable the drm features, I beleive. Now weither or not Vista will play back at full resolution I don't know.

Most people at this point are not shipping disks with teh full DRM capabilities enabled. The vast majority of people with HDTVs and such lack the hardware that would support the full encrypted media path. So if they make a full on DRM'd disk right now the vast majority of potential customers will not be able to play it back.



But irregardless it's mostly going to be a waste of time. AACS may not be cracked.. But right now HDCP is the weak link.

Spatz Tech is a company out of Germany that sold HDCP converters for a while, but they've withdrawn it.

The DMCA in the United States prevents people from distributing devices that strip out the encryption off of HDCP signals, but that's not a problem in quite a few other countries.

Since the DMCA violates Free speech -- Since nowadays RIAA and the Movie industry is a higher legal authority then the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights -- it's not something your going to realy be allowed hear and other people are not allowed to talk about in detail, but I expect that going after AACS is going to be a waste of time if you want to pirate stuff.

 

[greylica]

Since the DMCA violates Free speech -- Since nowadays RIAA and the Movie industry is a higher legal authority than the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights -- it's not something your going to really be allowed to hear and other people are not allowed to talk about in detail, but I expect that going after AACS is going to be a waste of time if you want to pirate stuff.

The liberty statue will be changed with the RIAA statue.
With an hole in the eye ( representing the degradation of the HDV )
a plug in the two ears with an always jitter speakers representing the new sounds of the quality and
a sew in the mouth to represent the consumers.