Discussion RDNA4 + CDNA3 Architectures Thread

[DisEnchantment]

With the GFX940 patches in full swing since first week of March, it is looking like MI300 is not far in the distant future!
Usually AMD takes around 3Qs to get the support in LLVM and amdgpu. Lately, since RDNA2 the window they push to add support for new devices is much reduced to prevent leaks.
But looking at the flurry of code in LLVM, it is a lot of commits. Maybe because US Govt is starting to prepare the SW environment for El Capitan (Maybe to avoid slow bring up situation like Frontier for example)

See here for the GFX940 specific commits

History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

The LLVM Project is a collection of modular and reusable compiler and toolchain technologies. - History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

github.com

Or Phoronix

More AMD "GFX940" Enablement Work Landing In LLVM - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

There is a lot more if you know whom to follow in LLVM review chains (before getting merged to github), but I am not going to link AMD employees.

I am starting to think MI300 will launch around the same time like Hopper probably only a couple of months later!
Although I believe Hopper had problems not having a host CPU capable of doing PCIe 5 in the very near future therefore it might have gotten pushed back a bit until SPR and Genoa arrives later in 2022.
If PVC slips again I believe MI300 could launch before it

This is nuts, MI100/200/300 cadence is impressive.



Previous thread on CDNA2 and RDNA3 here

Question - Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

Man I have been dying to make this one for a while now. First rumours for RDNA3 are here so new thread time! Just going to start off with this one for now: kopite7kimi on Twitter: "@VideoCardz Ah, I mean a simple mcm design with 10240 cores is not enough. Because the lift from RDNA2 to RDNA3...

forums.anandtech.com

 

[GodisanAtheist]

It's Fonzi my dude. You are too young to know what's up. 👍

I always associated the Ayyy with that latino flair, like if there was ever a sound that perfectly represented eye-rolling exasperation it would be the latino ayyy.

 

[soresu]

HBM seems too expensive for consumers. They all use it for data center, but not for consumer.

Expense is an issue for sure, but not that much of an issue - else we would have at least some X3D type SKUs of consumer HBM based gfx cards with a higher price tag for those who wish it.

What is an issue is that there simply is not enough production capacity to supply the great demand for HBM right now in more profitable market segments like pro compute and AI while also covering the consumer gfx end of the market.

HBM supply is basically being rationed to where it can generate the highest profit.

 

[Ranulf]

Could you find posts by even a small number, say 5 different members, using it? Maybe I am just skimming by it?

Uh, I think its been around the internet for several years. I mean, it isn't much of a stretch considering Nvidia...invidia (latin) aka envy and thus greed. It generally fits their corporate mindset well.

AMD's these days seems to be AMDumb. Advanced Marketing Disasters, perhaps?

 

[igor_kavinski]

AMD's these days seems to be AMDumb. Advanced Marketing Disasters, perhaps?

Genius!

 

[soresu]

AMD's these days seems to be AMDumb. Advanced Marketing Disasters, perhaps?

Marketing wise AMD have never really been very good at selling their product when they had a significant advantage a la Athlon 64.

I had barely any idea what to make of it until about the time the X2 chip became a thing and Conroe was already on the horizon - I can't say I'd ever seen any significant advertising campaign during those years that AMD were spanking P4 Prescott soundly which is a dire misstep that only helped Intel's efforts to influence the market away from them despite their hardware troubles.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Uh, I think its been around the internet for several years. I mean, it isn't much of a stretch considering Nvidia...invidia (latin) aka envy and thus greed. It generally fits their corporate mindset well.

Cut the condescending horse crap. You are moving the goalpost. The claim was that it is popular here on these forums, not the internet.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Expense is an issue for sure, but not that much of an issue - else we would have at least some X3D type SKUs of consumer HBM based gfx cards with a higher price tag for those who wish it.

That doesn't seem to make any logical sense. You seem be saying that if it were more expensive then we would see it on consumer cards??

 

[soresu]

That doesn't seem to make any logical sense. You seem be saying that if it were more expensive then we would see it on consumer cards??

I don't claim to be any expert on the economics involved, I only heard from someone else that HBM supply is currently constrained so it is largely kept to the most profitable market segments of compute and AI accelerators, which are extremely expensive relative to all but the most high end consumer gfx cards.

If the demand for pro compute significantly outstrips that of high end consumer gfx then it seems logical to prefer the former for a supply constrained part.

 

[Saylick]

Uh, I think its been around the internet for several years. I mean, it isn't much of a stretch considering Nvidia...invidia (latin) aka envy and thus greed. It generally fits their corporate mindset well.

AMD's these days seems to be AMDumb. Advanced Marketing Disasters, perhaps?

On the AMD_Stock sub-Reddit, AMD stands for Advanced Money Destroyer lol.

 

[beginner99]

The extra sales due to lower prices is not from people upgrading to two cards, but people upgrading sooner than they would otherwise.

Exactly. I would have upgraded 2-3 years ago if they didn't start the price increases with 2000 series and then covid.

 

[Heartbreaker]

But if they kept giving great price/performance improvements, you'd upgrade again relatively soon.

People who keep using old cards instead of buying a new one do result in lost sales.

Not really. It's a one time blip. You cut margin to the bone, to deliver that blip, then you have no room to cut more in the future to inspire another boost. In fact since its not sustainable, you've created a situation where future product will look relatively worse. It's a painful mess for the companies all around.

 

[Leeea]

Advanced Marketing Device

A Machine Disaster

Another Malfunctioning Device

Another Microcode Deficiency

 

[GodisanAtheist]

I think the 5xxx series will be another "value focused" recharge generation like 1xxx and the hypothetical MSRPs of the 3xxx generation.

NV is competing with themselves and the 4xxx series ain't selling and getting people to move off their older cards. So the 5xxx series will realign the price/performance curve downward (but still higher than the before times) to look like a great value vs the 4xxx series and it will sell like hotcakes.

Maybe AMD will show up to the fight, maybe they won't, who knows.

 

[adroc_thurston]

I think the 5xxx series will be another "value focused" recharge generation like 1xxx

The xtors aren't cheaper for Blackwell.
Impossible.

NV is competing with themselves

Yea AMD got not so lucky this time.

So the 5xxx series will realign the price/performance curve downward

No.
It's more silicon for more winning.

Maybe AMD will show up to the fight

They always do, the only question is whether the big heads allow building something chtonically expensive each gen (they usually do).

 

[Shmee]

Zero.
X3D MCDs are a thing, HBMs on client are not.

This isn't entirely true, and I am pretty sure you know that. Fury had HBM, Vega HBM2, Radeon VII had HBM2. While you are likely at least partially right, in that AMD may not release a Radeon with some sort of HBM again soon, do you care to explain why you think so?

 

[Heartbreaker]

NV is competing with themselves and the 4xxx series ain't selling and getting people to move off their older cards.

They are doing pretty well on Steam and Mindfactory.

 

[Raydonn]

They are doing pretty well on Steam and Mindfactory.

Yes, so well that they are only selling half as much as AMD last week.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1686384713521606656

 

[Heartbreaker]

Yes, so well that they are only selling half as much as AMD last week.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1686384713521606656

Can you find anymore in July. I haven't seen these since early June. I thought he stopped covering them. Then Musk basically made Twitter unusable without an account so I couldn't search.

 

[DaaQ]

I think the 5xxx series will be another "value focused" recharge generation like 1xxx and the hypothetical MSRPs of the 3xxx generation.

NV is competing with themselves and the 4xxx series ain't selling and getting people to move off their older cards. So the 5xxx series will realign the price/performance curve downward (but still higher than the before times) to look like a great value vs the 4xxx series and it will sell like hotcakes.

Maybe AMD will show up to the fight, maybe they won't, who knows.

It really doesn't matter what P/P/Pw AMD has, people will still buy Nvidia. It has been said many times before, " IF AMD could compete, Nvidia would lower prices"

They have had value leadership, and still didn't gain margin or share.

I have a GTX780, when I knew I should have got a 290X, but availability and price was at the beginning of the mining crap.

It runs D4 at 60fps so I'm fine with if for now. If I can save up for a 7900XTX I will get one, if the next gen comes out before I have the money for that I will get that. For now my sig runs what I need it to run just fine for me so, no impulse purchases again from me.

 

[Heartbreaker]

It really doesn't matter what P/P/Pw AMD has, people will still buy Nvidia.

I remember the prime example of this being people buying the RTX 3050, when the RX 6600 was cheaper, but I just stumbled on some reviews today where a bunch of people ordered RX 6650 XT, but were sent RTX 3050, and they were not happy.

Amazon.ca

I was pissed off when I saw RTX 3050 box instead of RX 6650 XT. I don't know how it happens but I didn't get any notification in advance that graphic card was changed before I got it. And if you believe that 3050 is similar to 6650 XT you're wrong. The difference in performance is around 50-60%. And I noticed that around 10-15 people had the same issue. This is a SCAM.

I love AMD but they sent me 2 RTX 3050 Aero ITX GPUs even though I ordered 3 MSI RX 6650 XT OC. Returned the RTX nvidia GPUs. Not rebuying the 6650 XTs because the price went up. The 6650 that I got was nice.

Finally, it's explained. No one is ordering these 3050, it's just a mass conspiracy to replace superior AMD GPU, with 3050s no one really wants. 😉

 

[Aapje]

It really doesn't matter what P/P/Pw AMD has, people will still buy Nvidia. It has been said many times before, " IF AMD could compete, Nvidia would lower prices"

Right now this may no longer be true, since Nvidia has trouble fulfilling orders for the AI cards. I wouldn't be surprised if Jensen would actually prefer that AMD has more market share.

They have had value leadership, and still didn't gain margin or share.

Either that or your estimation of the value of AMD's cards is inflated like AMD's pricing.

 

[Panino Manino]

AMD's these days seems to be AMDumb. Advanced Marketing Disasters, perhaps?

For the GPUs, yes, it's Another Massive Disappointment after the other. But it's complicated, because the CPUs are not disappointing at all for half a decade already (and because of this I lost hope about RTG, feels like AMD "gave up" and is just keeping appearances).

 

[Mopetar]

AMD fans always create such a massive amount of hype around their future products that even if the card turns out to be 10% on top for 75% of the price they'd still be disappointed because it doesn't do their taxes and make them a ham sandwich afterwards.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Fury had HBM, Vega HBM2, Radeon VII had HBM2.

Yea stillborn Raja era products and a rebaged DC chip.
No bueno.

in that AMD may not release a Radeon with some sort of HBM again soon, do you care to explain why you think so?

Cache is fine.

For the GPUs, yes, it's Another Massive Disappointment after the other

RDNA2 was barely 2 years ago and was winning pretty hard in key metrics.

feels like AMD "gave up" and is just keeping appearances

It's literally the area with the biggest investment yet.

AMD fans always create such a massive amount of hype around their future products

There was literally no hype around RDNA2 or 3 or anything; the plebs always expect another Vega from AMD and get mad whenever it's not and AMD isn't forced to drive pricing down.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

There was literally no hype around RDNA2 or 3 or anything; the plebs always expect another Vega from AMD and get mad whenever it's not and AMD isn't forced to drive pricing down.

-TBF the hype around RDNA3 was kinda nuts, especially when all the rumors were mistaking the dual pumped SPs as two separate SPs and claiming 200-300% performance improvements. Given the dark horse status of the RDNA2 line, people thought AMD had finally gotten their act together on GPUs and were going after the halo spot with RDNA3 (which AMD is now saying they could have but chose not to 🙄).

Just check out the earlier days of the RDNA3 thread here and while AT is generally a bit more reserved than some place like r/AMD people were still tossing coal on the engine of the hype train.