Discussion RDNA 5 / UDNA (CDNA Next) speculation

[jpiniero]

Tried Mafia Old Country using 4090 yesterday, runs like **** at 4k using DLSS quality upscale, which frankly should not be necessary on 4090, which is what - at least x5 than PS5?

Depends on your definition of crap but should be about 60 fps.

 

[Win2012R2]

Depends on your definition of crap but should be about 60 fps.

60 FPS at 4k (even native) is crap on 4090, using 9800X3D too, so no CPU bottleneck. How could they get to that level of FPS being inside mine, which isn't even open world? Amazing stuff.

And I am not even talking about stuttering etc typical for UE5 games, and this isn't RT/PT scenario which I accept runs crap on any hardware right now.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Y'all seen this? Rubin GPU arc is getting a delay due to a supposed "reworking" due to expected competition from AMD MI 400/450 series. Sounds like some rubbish to me, but maybe theres something to it.

NVIDIA’s Rubin AI Architecture Is Reportedly Delayed, as the Firm Has Been Influenced by AMD and Is Now Redesigning to Compete with the Instinct MI450 Lineup

NVIDIA's next-gen Rubin lineup might be delayed by at least a few months, as Team Green is redesigning it to give AMD tougher competition.

wccftech.com

-What kind of "reworking" is going to happen in a few months?

If it is in fact delayed I have to assume something is wrong with the arch and it isn't performing like it's supposed to.

Respin with bug-fixes, not some sort of mythical pressure from AMD.

Edit: Article says "debunked" so nvm on all that.

 

[Win2012R2]

Respin with bug-fixes, not some sort of mythical pressure from AMD.

Respin = problems = delays.

 

[Josh128]

Respin = problems = delays.

Wasnt the same thing reported to have happened with Blackwell AI GPUs?

 

[marees]

Wasnt the same thing reported to have happened with Blackwell AI GPUs?

Yes Blackwell had lots of issues. I believe they could be categorized as either memory related or packaging related.

The same would be bottlenecks for AMD also. There is no magic wand here

 

[Win2012R2]

Wasnt the same thing reported to have happened with Blackwell AI GPUs?

Yes, and this time it's 2kw chip!

The same would be bottlenecks for AMD also. There is no magic wand here

There is and it's called... chiplets, plus better process, plus stuff learned in supply chain for Nvidia will be available to AMD too.

 

[Magras00]

yeah it is lmao.
Unless you have some frametime to spare.

Was not talking about making the implementation heavier but additional training = fine wine. Look at DLSS 2 -> DLSS 3.7. 4.5 years of improvements. FSR4 Hybrid CNN + ViT or NVIDIA's DLSS TF (likely also CNN + ViT) are still very new and will improve over time.

More noise and more blur? sure why not.

I always wanted 'real-time' lighting implementations to have 240+ frames of accumulation lag.

There are techniques underway to adress noise and accumulation lag. Look for stuff related to I3D, SIggraph and Eurographics. Better pixel sampling and resampling estimators (ReSTIR derivatives) algorithms that adress the grainy visuals rapidly without ray denoisers at same ms cost. The Intel technique from the June blog makes standard ReSTIR look crap.

Who said anything about blur? Last time I checked DLSS 4 upscaling was applauded by basically everyone in the fuckTAA subreddit and other places as a "TAA deblur filter".

No reason any non NR gfx software techniques can't be employed on PS5/Pro too.

PS5 OG is limited by RDNA2's far inferior matrix + ML ops handling relative to RDNA4 in PS5 Pro, so any NR techniques employed are likely to be hidebound to the latter console, increasing its attractiveness prior to PS6's release, so long as game devs actually take advantage of the hw feature set.

Referencing how things will be post-crossgen with PS6 as baseline but sure a two-tiered approach is very likely as in prev crossgen periods.

Maybe a tad too pessimistic regarding most games. If AMD, NVIDIA and Sony wants to showcase their features nextgen and beyond then perhaps enhanced features from PC ports can carry over to PS6 versions of games so even games in crossgen era gives us a taste of what PS6 can do besides the few first party games in the crossgen era.

 

[adroc_thurston]

4.5 years of improvements

Very incremental visual gain at idk frame time costs.

Who said anything about blur?

Your 0.5 spp denoised poo will be inherently blurry, making reflections and GI surfaces look very not-sharp.

 

[Win2012R2]

Your 0.5 spp denoised poo will be inherently blurry, making reflections and GI surfaces look very not-sharp.

You got better alternative?

 

[adroc_thurston]

You got better alternative?

Not trying to live beyond our measures.
Forget about RTGI for the foreseeable future. It's expensive, slow and blurry. Just don't.

 

[Win2012R2]

Forget about RTGI for the foreseeable future. It's expensive, slow and blurry. Just don't.

Why, it seems to work fine in say Indiana Jones, we certainly need actual dynamic lighting to stop using Quake baked lights from the 90s.

 

[marees]

Why, it seems to work fine in say Indiana Jones, we certainly need actual dynamic lighting to stop using Quake baked lights from the 90s.

Voxel cone tracing (used in kingdom come Deliverance 2) works fine for lighting, imo.

 

[adroc_thurston]

it seems to work fine in say Indiana Jones

It's laggy as hell lmao, and looks generally pretty blurry on low albedo materials.

we certainly need actual dynamic lighting to stop using Quake baked lights from the 90s.

we have like a billion of conetracing schemes for goodnuff GI.

 

[Win2012R2]

It's laggy as hell lmao, and looks generally pretty blurry on low albedo materials.

Why won't you do a better job and show everyone how it should be done then?

The direction of travel is pretty clear - it's RT, there is nothing else viable.

Indiana looked fine to me on 4090 at 4k, I think I did not even bother upscaling it.

we have like a billion of conetracing schemes for goodnuff GI.

Can RT hardware be used for that too?

 

[adroc_thurston]

Why won't you do a better job and show everyone how it should be done then?

The trick is not doing it.

The direction of travel is pretty clear - it's RT, there is nothing else viable.

IHVs gotta sell new hardware you know.
Doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Indiana looked fine to me on 4090 at 4k

I think we have different baseline expectations.

Can RT hardware be used for that too?

Nnnnnope.

 

[Win2012R2]

The trick is not doing it.

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree - you should try what you preach though, like try not being an arsehole for a change? You probably hear it a lot.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree - you should try what you preach though, like try not being an arsehole for a change? You probably hear it a lot.

3/10 deflection.

 

[gdansk]

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree - you should try what you preach though, like try not being an arsehole for a change? You probably hear it a lot.

In this case he has a point, why force a technology before HW is ready? Consider early 3d graphics. I find many of these painful compared to late 2d games. It was a step back in many ways. Today you really have to like the gameplay to get over it.

I'm not sure if that's the case for garbage rtgi but if it lags behind the simulated world it could be distracting and effectively not any more realistic because in real life light doesn't lag, it's pretty fast.

 

[jpiniero]

In this case he has a point, why force a technology before HW is ready? Consider early 3d graphics. I find many of these painful compared to late 2d games. It was a step back in many ways. Today you really have to like the gameplay to get over it.

You have to start somewhere.

 

[Saylick]

You have to start somewhere.

Especially in Nvidia's case, where the only way for them to sustain revenues and their marketshare is to introduce new technologies relatively early on in the adoption cycle because they know it takes a long time between introduction to mass adoption. If they didn't start early, they would see a hiccup in sales during the transition period because consumers have less desire to upgrade, which is a big no-no for them.

 

[itsmydamnation]

You have to start somewhere.

Moore's law is dead, picked the best time to start somewhere.

We spent 50 years improving things 20% at a time by throwing 100% more transistors at it. Now what?

 

[branch_suggestion]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1956171660794716394

Wonder if this is just some MI400 jank or it does also apply to GFX13?

 

[Magras00]

AMD SIGGRAPH GPU Work graphs course notes now available on Github. https://coburggraphicslab.github.io/workgraphs/

"Course notes" PDF contains 473 info slides for GPU work graphs. Looks impactful for RTRT, mesh shaders and is proactive unlike SER. A description could be "defacto globally sorted locality scheduled work". Everything is kicked to their own nodes minimizing incoherency and divergence. Also no more barrier BS, no more excessive memory allocation (~50-70x less scratch buffer allocation vs EI), CPU holding back GPU, synchronization and IO back and forth delays etc...

Just a shame adoption of this tech is post-crossgen as @Kepler_L2 said. Probably a repeat of mesh shader and RTRT adoption.

 

[Win2012R2]

Just a shame adoption of this tech is post-crossgen

They can't run on base PS5?

Probably a repeat of mesh shader and RTRT adoption

Seems like work graphs got a lot more potential benefits