Raytracing is worth the money. (Opinion)

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

PeterScott

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2017
2,605
1,540
136
$1,200 better?

Yes, if money really means nothing to you then even a 5% increase in speed is worth paying $1,200.

It's this generations Titan X. Titan X was $1200 and this is ~35% faster + new RT and Tensor cores (likely with many new use cases), for the same $1200.

So it's certainly no worse than Titan X was, but Titan X and 2080Ti are expensive early adopter cards.

If you aren't an early adopter, it's not for you.
 

Alpha One Seven

Golden Member
Sep 11, 2017
1,098
124
66
$1,200 better?

Yes, if money really means nothing to you then even a 5% increase in speed is worth paying $1,200.

I can easily afford to spend that much, I have no limits on my computing budget other than being (to put it nicely) "thrifty." I'm just very far from being convinced that the 2080 ti is worth the price, especially before the NDAs expire and we start to get more trustworthy reviews.

Remember, it wasn't too long ago that sites like wccftech were claiming they knew we'd be getting a GTX 1180 for $700 in August. Don't trust the pre-release rumors and leaks.
Absolutely, for us at least. If someone told me they could add real time in game raytracing and DLSS to my 1080Ti and not loose any functionality, and it would cost 2,000.00, I'd say, go for it. :)
I am a fan of raytracing my renderings in 3DS Max and so that alone is worth it for me, the deep learning is a free bonus. :)
Money has a meaning to us, but in truth we have made hundreds of times more than that from our stock in nVidia, so it's like a dividend on an investment at this point. lol
 

PrincessFrosty

Platinum Member
Feb 13, 2008
2,301
68
91
www.frostyhacks.blogspot.com
Then it will work 35% better on a newer card and with RT and DLSS. :)

No it won't all of the benchmarks/games using ray tracing have been at 1080p in 60hz, that's kinda my point. If you're a 4k junkie you will not be using RT that's for sure, not if you want more than 5fps.

My point was, If like me you're kinda more inclined to stick with 4k for now rather than run 1080p with RT, then these chips aren't necessarily the best way to go, and that's because they have a lot of the transistors dedicated to RT-like workloads which presumably could have otherwise been used for rasterization. I'm guessing they're mostly idle on the chip if you're not doing any kind of RT, which is a massive waste. Now if AMD come out with a similar chip with no RT dedicated transistors, then it could be a lot faster for the 4k crowd, and if it's also 7nm with a large chip it could be a LOT faster, like blow Nvidia out the water kinda fast.

That's all gross speculation though, but if that's what happens I might be back to AMD for the first time in many years.


Discussion of AMD products and what-ifs is not allowed in the Nvidia subforum.

AT Moderator ElFenix
 
Last edited by a moderator:

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,111
5,643
126
I wonder how long Raytracing Enthusiasts go before Disabling it for more Frames.
 

Alpha One Seven

Golden Member
Sep 11, 2017
1,098
124
66
I wonder how long Raytracing Enthusiasts go before Disabling it for more Frames.
For us? It will never happen. :)

And the benchmarks I saw leaked were at 4k, not 1080p, but since I don't like 4k for sitting close to on a small screen, it makes no difference for us anyways, but the capability is there if we wanted it.
 

Alpha One Seven

Golden Member
Sep 11, 2017
1,098
124
66
No it won't all of the benchmarks/games using ray tracing have been at 1080p in 60hz, that's kinda my point. If you're a 4k junkie you will not be using RT that's for sure, not if you want more than 5fps.

My point was, If like me you're kinda more inclined to stick with 4k for now rather than run 1080p with RT, then these chips aren't necessarily the best way to go, and that's because they have a lot of the transistors dedicated to RT-like workloads which presumably could have otherwise been used for rasterization. I'm guessing they're mostly idle on the chip if you're not doing any kind of RT, which is a massive waste. Now if AMD come out with a similar chip with no RT dedicated transistors, then it could be a lot faster for the 4k crowd, and if it's also 7nm with a large chip it could be a LOT faster, like blow Nvidia out the water kinda fast.




Discussion of AMD products and what-ifs is not allowed in the Nvidia subforum.

AT Moderator ElFenix
Where did you see it said it gave less than 5fps? I doubt that's even close to accurate, frankly. I think you are full of BS.

I doubt that the competition will have ray tracing for a while yet and that is the purpose of the new generation of graphics after all. New Graphics, not just sped up older flat looking graphics.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
No it won't all of the benchmarks/games using ray tracing have been at 1080p in 60hz, that's kinda my point. If you're a 4k junkie you will not be using RT that's for sure, not if you want more than 5fps.

My point was, If like me you're kinda more inclined to stick with 4k for now rather than run 1080p with RT, then these chips aren't necessarily the best way to go, and that's because they have a lot of the transistors dedicated to RT-like workloads which presumably could have otherwise been used for rasterization. I'm guessing they're mostly idle on the chip if you're not doing any kind of RT, which is a massive waste. Now if AMD come out with a similar chip with no RT dedicated transistors, then it could be a lot faster for the 4k crowd, and if it's also 7nm with a large chip it could be a LOT faster, like blow Nvidia out the water kinda fast.

That's all gross speculation though, but if that's what happens I might be back to AMD for the first time in many years.


Discussion of AMD products and what-ifs is not allowed in the Nvidia subforum.

AT Moderator ElFenix

There aren't that many RT cores compared to cores that can work with rasterization/AI/DLSS for conventional gaming.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_20_series#Chipset_table
 

amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
3,983
2,225
136
Tom’s Hardware Founder Replies to Controversy And GN Video

Tom’s Hardware founder Thomas Pabst, who left the site in 2007, recently posted a comment on the GamersNexus facebook page to address our Tom’s Hardware video. The response was made to our coverage of the “Just Buy It” article that was posted by Tom’s Hardware’s current Editor-in-Chief Avram Piltch, where, at one point, I jokingly asked, “Tom, what have you become? Look at yourself! I’m using Tom as an all-inclusive term for anyone who writes at Tom’s Hardware.”

Pabst took the question and ran with it, replying as follows:

“You asked ‘What happened, Tom? What has become of you?’ Well, there’s only one person who can answer that!

Tom has become a daddy of two boys and doesn’t have anything to do with Tom’s Hardware anymore.

So far so good.

What does Tom think of the article you love so emphatically?

“Well, I’d say Tom would have been less kind than you have been with his assessment! It is ultimately ridiculous, it is indeed suicidal, and its conclusions are epically nonsensical. There is value in being an early adopter? Aren’t we, who are impatiently into the latest tech, sorely aware of what we keep doing to ourselves when we purchase technology at high prices ‘ahead of the curve’? It’s maso-f***ing-chism! We make ourselves paying beta testers, and wait for software (and often other hardware) that will hopefully bless our brand new tech with the meaning and usefulness they simply do not have by the time of our premature purchase! There are no RTX games, but there is value in adopting Turing early, because current games *might* be faster than on our 1080ti SLI setup? Yes, this is madness, and good old Tom is scratching his head no less than you are, Steve! There’s got to be value in masochism!”

Source: https://www.facebook.com/GamersNexus/posts/10155799307847825
 

Headfoot

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2008
4,444
641
126
It's my opinion. That's all the basis I need. :)
From preliminary reports, it will run at 4k 1440 fps much better than the current cards.
But, that doesn't really matter to me as I said, I like playing games, not running benchmarks. :)
What? What does running benchmarks have to do with this? Running Battlefield 5 with ray tracing at 30 fps would feel and play like garbage compared to running Battlefield 5 at 144fps. That's why there is no possible way you can know whether this thing is gonna be worth it yet. We dont have the data.
 

Alpha One Seven

Golden Member
Sep 11, 2017
1,098
124
66
What? What does running benchmarks have to do with this? Running Battlefield 5 with ray tracing at 30 fps would feel and play like garbage compared to running Battlefield 5 at 144fps. That's why there is no possible way you can know whether this thing is gonna be worth it yet. We dont have the data.
It's worth it if you are willing to spend the money. It is worth it to us to buy the cards, you might not be able or willing to buy them so they are not worth it for you. This was just my personal opinion of the cards and that's the fact.
 

Alpha One Seven

Golden Member
Sep 11, 2017
1,098
124
66
It's this generations Titan X. Titan X was $1200 and this is ~35% faster + new RT and Tensor cores (likely with many new use cases), for the same $1200.

So it's certainly no worse than Titan X was, but Titan X and 2080Ti are expensive early adopter cards.

If you aren't an early adopter, it's not for you.
I think this about sums it up. There are a lot of folks that won't buy a card until the generation after it is released, so a lot of people are buying the last generation now and will buy this new generation after the next is released and prices come down.
 

Alpha One Seven

Golden Member
Sep 11, 2017
1,098
124
66
I don't think anyone should do anything they don't want to do. Ever.
My opinion is formed on whatever I want to form an opinion based on and nothing less or more.
To me, better looking games are more important than more frames per second that my eye cannot see anyways. I can easilly see raytracing but cannot tell between 120 and 125 fps or between 60 and 65.
 

Excessi0n

Member
Jul 25, 2014
140
36
101
It's this generations Titan X. Titan X was $1200 and this is ~35% faster + new RT and Tensor cores (likely with many new use cases), for the same $1200.

So it's certainly no worse than Titan X was, but Titan X and 2080Ti are expensive early adopter cards.

If you aren't an early adopter, it's not for you.

AIB custom cards exist and there's no room in the lineup for a slightly lower-performing version to be introduced later. It's not a Titan, although Nvidia clearly thinks it can get away with pricing it like one.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
That is fine and dandy, but why did you tout your opinion to others (who are fully capable of forming their own opinions)?

Possibly this:

Money has a meaning to us, but in truth we have made hundreds of times more than that from our stock in nVidia, so it's like a dividend on an investment at this point. lol

If you have tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in nvidia stock, it's going to be hard for you to look at their products objectively.

My last 3 GPUs were nvidia (560ti, 680, 980ti) but since all of my investments are in index funds I have no financial bias in favor of them.

We'll find out how the 2080 and ti do for current games this week. For ray tracing it might take months or even years before most of us have a reason to care.
 
May 13, 2009
12,333
612
126
I hope they sell them for as much as possible. I bought a new evga 1080 for $365. I know there wasn't much profit in that purchase for evga. I would not mind some people buying $1400 cards so companies like evga, asus, etc. can make a profit and stay in business because they won't be getting huge profits from me.
 

Alpha One Seven

Golden Member
Sep 11, 2017
1,098
124
66
Possibly this:



If you have tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in nvidia stock, it's going to be hard for you to look at their products objectively.

My last 3 GPUs were nvidia (560ti, 680, 980ti) but since all of my investments are in index funds I have no financial bias in favor of them.

We'll find out how the 2080 and ti do for current games this week. For ray tracing it might take months or even years before most of us have a reason to care.
Possibly, but we have about the same amount invested in AMD, Seagate, Western Digital, Samsung and Intel and other tech stocks, so there's that. I have AMD based and nVidia/Intel based systems in our office at home
For the record, we buy stock in brands and products that we like and use. We invest in art the same way, buy what we like and if it goes up, fine, if not, that's fine too. We have things we like either way.
I don't recommend anyone ever buy stock in things they themselves do not use or enjoy. Trust your own judgement, if you like it, it's a safe bet you are not the only one.
 

Alpha One Seven

Golden Member
Sep 11, 2017
1,098
124
66
I hope they sell them for much as possible. I bought a new evga 1080 for $365. I know there wasn't much profit in that purchase for evga. I would not mind some people buying $1400 cards so companies like evga, asus, etc. can make a profit and stay in business because they won't be getting huge profits from me.
Exactly. By buying older products, the R&D costs have been recouped already and the prices are a lot lower even if it's useable life has been substantially cut back. I buy games that way. Wait for a new release and buy the last version on a sale.
 
Last edited:

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,111
5,643
126
I hope they sell them for as much as possible. I bought a new evga 1080 for $365. I know there wasn't much profit in that purchase for evga. I would not mind some people buying $1400 cards so companies like evga, asus, etc. can make a profit and stay in business because they won't be getting huge profits from me.

Are they making the extra money or Nvidia?
 

killster1

Banned
Mar 15, 2007
6,208
475
126
more exciting if multi gpu actually was supported. Maybe when they put ray tracing on vulkan we can use a multi gpu setup to get all this eye candy while still maintaining fps. I dont understand why they dont program for it, cant nvidia pay them off so they will make people want to buy 3 2080ti's to power their 6k monitor.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
more exciting if multi gpu actually was supported. Maybe when they put ray tracing on vulkan we can use a multi gpu setup to get all this eye candy while still maintaining fps. I dont understand why they dont program for it, cant nvidia pay them off so they will make people want to buy 3 2080ti's to power their 6k monitor.
SLI was cut to two way with the 10 series cards.
NVLINK with the 20 series cards is also only two way.
 

Alpha One Seven

Golden Member
Sep 11, 2017
1,098
124
66
more exciting if multi gpu actually was supported. Maybe when they put ray tracing on vulkan we can use a multi gpu setup to get all this eye candy while still maintaining fps. I dont understand why they dont program for it, cant nvidia pay them off so they will make people want to buy 3 2080ti's to power their 6k monitor.
LOL yeah, everyone will do that. The target market is so tiny it isn't worth the R&D costs.