Raw milk story and its funny

[IronWing]

We still have cases of recalls from Farm Products like meat and mad cow disease all the time. Nothing protects you 100% of the time. Was it China that put melamine in some of their Milk Products?

It was pet food.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

It was pet food.

I think the Chinese pet food was arsenic. China allows trains & trucks to carry anything and they just need a rinse to carry food stuff.

**The US was similar until the 60s or 70s. China hasn't grown up yet.

 

[lopri]

A few years ago I saw someone selling trying to sell a bottled breast milk for $500 at a farmer's market.

 

[werepossum]

Because in this case, it isn't related to just the one person who learns their lesson.

The easiest example is tuberculosis. 1.5 million people a year die of it. This isn't a minor disease. It is the leading cause of death from infectious disease (more deaths than ebola, malaria, HIV, etc). While TB is usually treatable, drug resistant forms are skyrocketing (even extensively drug resistant forms that basically have no known cure).

Tuberculosis is spread from person to person and from raw milk to people. One person can get TB from raw milk and then spread it to innocent bystanders. How would you like a family member to die because a friend of theirs was careless with raw milk? This isn't about stopping people from their own stupidity, it is about stopping their stupidity from killing others. TB was a major killer in the US (it once was the leading cause of death in the US above any other cause of death) and Europe until pasteurization came around.

Again, I'm not against raw milk (I have raw milk cheese in my fridge right now). But, we need to be very careful with it. These law makers (A) don't seem to know what they were getting into and (B) certainly seemed to be acting careless rather than careful. Stringent safety laws that allow raw milk products to be safely produced and sold are needed, not just a bill to legalize it with nothing to protect the innocent.

Dude, we have literally thousands of illegals with human TB coming across our southern border every year. It's fairly ubiquitous among many poor, crowded populations with minimal access to modern health care, from where we get the vast majority of our illegals crossing the southern border. I highly doubt that raw milk with potential bovine TB is a significant danger compared to that or even to other Mycobacteria. In any case, nodules encapsulating Mycobacterium bovis obtained from drinking raw milk would be in the stomach's lymph nodes, NOT in the lungs as commonly seen in those infected with Mycobacterium tuberculosis, so it's a very rare individual who would or could spread the disease to another human. The actual dairy farm workers would be a more likely vector via topical infections. Untreated, Mycobacterium tuberculosis is a major (though slow) killer of humans, whereas Mycobacterium bovis simply isn't. Even where the nodulization fails, a secondary infection with a faster growing bacterium is more like to kill than is bovine TB.

As far as regulations, I assume that a commercial farm producing raw milk in quantity would have to follow the same guidelines as pasteurized milk, less the pasteurization process.

 

[werepossum]

A few years ago I saw someone selling trying to sell a bottled breast milk for $500 at a farmer's market.

For that price I'm going to demand to harvest my own.

My wife watched something on TV saying that in large urban areas, breast milk is a thriving industry where lactating women can make big bucks. Athletes and body builders seem to be two of the biggest markets. I'd have thought creepy old millionaires with Kleenex boxes for shoes, but apparently I am behind the times.

 

[IronWing]

We still have cases of recalls from Farm Products like meat and mad cow disease all the time. Nothing protects you 100% of the time. Was it China that put melamine in some of their Milk Products?

It was pet food.

We are both correct.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melamine#Melamine_poisoning_by_tainted_food

 

[Fanatical Meat]

We are both correct.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melamine#Melamine_poisoning_by_tainted_food

Haha of course its China and it involves public safety.

 

[dullard]

Dude, we have literally thousands of illegals with human TB coming across our southern border every year. It's fairly ubiquitous among many poor, crowded populations with minimal access to modern health care, from where we get the vast majority of our illegals crossing the southern border. I highly doubt that raw milk with potential bovine TB is a significant danger compared to that or even to other Mycobacteria. In any case, nodules encapsulating Mycobacterium bovis obtained from drinking raw milk would be in the stomach's lymph nodes, NOT in the lungs as commonly seen in those infected with Mycobacterium tuberculosis, so it's a very rare individual who would or could spread the disease to another human. The actual dairy farm workers would be a more likely vector via topical infections. Untreated, Mycobacterium tuberculosis is a major (though slow) killer of humans, whereas Mycobacterium bovis simply isn't. Even where the nodulization fails, a secondary infection with a faster growing bacterium is more like to kill than is bovine TB.

As far as regulations, I assume that a commercial farm producing raw milk in quantity would have to follow the same guidelines as pasteurized milk, less the pasteurization process.

1) Cows can get and can transmit both M. bovis and M. tuberculosis.
2) M. bovis can and does spread to the lungs.
3) I'm arguing that a raw milk facility should be held to stricter standards. Not that they should be outlawed. Just making assumptions is what causes this problem to begin with.
4) Are you seriously turning a raw milk discussion into a rant against immigration? We shouldn't take any of your comments in this thread seriously for that reason alone.

 

[lopri]

For that price I'm going to demand to harvest my own.

My wife watched something on TV saying that in large urban areas, breast milk is a thriving industry where lactating women can make big bucks. Athletes and body builders seem to be two of the biggest markets. I'd have thought creepy old millionaires with Kleenex boxes for shoes, but apparently I am behind the times.

!! My goodness, I had no idea. Thank you for opening my eyes.

 

[abj13]

So what are the health benefits of unpasteurized milk?

Or is it no different than the "organic," "natural," or "non-GMO" health craze?

 

[Brainonska511]

So what are the health benefits of unpasteurized milk?

Or is it no different than the "organic," "natural," or "non-GMO" health craze?

I'm pretty sure it falls into the latter category of some fallacious appeal to nature.

 

[MagickMan]

One sip wasn't going to cause that kind of reaction in <12 hours, that bug was already in their systems. It's just a very funny coincidence.

 

[abj13]

One sip wasn't going to cause that kind of reaction in <12 hours, that bug was already in their systems. It's just a very funny coincidence.

False. Staph aureus and C. perfringens toxins, Salmonella, and Shigella all can cause symptoms within 24 hours, and the infective dosages for some of those organisms (especially Shigella) can be as low as 10 organisms.

 

[Jeff7]

I wonder what else they might have had, if they all got lunch from a lobbyist or from the same restaurant in a similar timeframe?

my sister in law got ecoli from raw milk.

fucking retarded law makers.

pasteurization is not a suggestion....



a hundred years of use and these people think it's for fun... wow.

Thing is, we know more about how to maintain sanitary standards now than we did back then.
(Nothing saying that we always follow those standards. Darn evil business-killing government regulation and all that. And of course just lazy people.)


Other thing about pasteurization: It screws with something in the milk, enzymes I think.
Regular store-bought milk: Horrendous amounts of gas and other "associated intestinal problems" that'll leave me spending half a day no less than 20 feet from an available toilet.
Raw milk: Goes down as benign as water.
Lactaid milk: Also as benign as water. Costs more though.

 

[werepossum]

1) Cows can get and can transmit both M. bovis and M. tuberculosis.
2) M. bovis can and does spread to the lungs.
3) I'm arguing that a raw milk facility should be held to stricter standards. Not that they should be outlawed. Just making assumptions is what causes this problem to begin with.
4) Are you seriously turning a raw milk discussion into a rant against immigration? We shouldn't take any of your comments in this thread seriously for that reason alone.

For 1 and 2, highly unlikely and rare; aren't there many more common problems we face?
For 3, I dunno, maybe. The bigger the operation, the more milk is mixed, the more likely is a widespread problem.
For 4, not a rant, just pointing out reality as most any doctor can tell you.

!! My goodness, I had no idea. Thank you for opening my eyes.

Well, it's on television so salt to taste. I swear, half of all TV "news" must be something somebody just made up.

 

[werepossum]

I wonder what else they might have had, if they all got lunch from a lobbyist or from the same restaurant in a similar timeframe?

Thing is, we know more about how to maintain sanitary standards now than we did back then.
(Nothing saying that we always follow those standards. Darn evil business-killing government regulation and all that. And of course just lazy people.)

Other thing about pasteurization: It screws with something in the milk, enzymes I think.
Regular store-bought milk: Horrendous amounts of gas and other "associated intestinal problems" that'll leave me spending half a day no less than 20 feet from an available toilet.
Raw milk: Goes down as benign as water.
Lactaid milk: Also as benign as water. Costs more though.

Interesting. I've heard that same thing about pasteurization, that it destroys the enzymes that aid in digesting milk. Never knew if there were any truth to it, at least for the non-lactose intolerant. Supposedly that's why we have so many people who are lactose intolerant. I just assumed that in previous generations, people who had problems drinking milk/eating dairy just didn't drink milk or eat dairy. (Obviously, that because a lot more problematic with the widespread adoption of pizza.)

 

[Jeff7]

Interesting. I've heard that same thing about pasteurization, that it destroys the enzymes that aid in digesting milk. Never knew if there were any truth to it, at least for the non-lactose intolerant. Supposedly that's why we have so many people who are lactose intolerant. I just assumed that in previous generations, people who had problems drinking milk/eating dairy just didn't drink milk or eat dairy. (Obviously, that because a lot more problematic with the widespread adoption of pizza.)

Addon: Someone once suggested that what I described is just a placebo effect.
I don't know how my brain could coerce my guts to generate noisy gas and geysers of........yeah.


I'd get raw milk more often, but the only place in the area that sells it is a farm that's way out of town, and would cost me 2 gallons of gas per trip plus the time to drive all the way there on winding rural roads.

 

[werepossum]

Addon: Someone once suggested that what I described is just a placebo effect.
I don't know how my brain could coerce my guts to generate noisy gas and geysers of........yeah.

I'd get raw milk more often, but the only place in the area that sells it is a farm that's way out of town, and would cost me 2 gallons of gas per trip plus the time to drive all the way there on winding rural roads.

lol Yeah, whatever that is, I'm pretty sure it's not the placebo effect.

 

[Victorian Gray]

We still have cases of recalls from Farm Products like meat and mad cow disease all the time. Nothing protects you 100% of the time. Was it China that put melamine in some of their Milk Products?

2008 - tainted milk scandal:

China's 2008 tainted milk scandal laid bare some of harsher realities behind the country's economic miracle - exposing the high price that can be exacted for entrenched, institutionalised corruption and inadequate oversight during times of rapid growth.

The contamination of milk and milk products with melamine – an industrial chemical used in fertilizers and plastics - left at least four babies dead and sickened hundreds of thousands more.

http://thinkbusiness.nus.edu/articles/item/118-tainted-milk-unravelling-china’s-melamine-scandal

 

[Victorian Gray]

I think the Chinese pet food was arsenic. China allows trains & trucks to carry anything and they just need a rinse to carry food stuff.

**The US was similar until the 60s or 70s. China hasn't grown up yet.

It was contaminated gluten in pet food, in 2007 I believe. Again, as in the tainted milk scandal, it was melamine contamination.

 

[drnickriviera]

So what are the health benefits of unpasteurized milk?

Or is it no different than the "organic," "natural," or "non-GMO" health craze?

Taste good. Usually a higher fat content than whole milk.

I'd get raw milk more often, but the only place in the area that sells it is a farm that's way out of town, and would cost me 2 gallons of gas per trip plus the time to drive all the way there on winding rural roads.

It does freeze well. I've found regular milk to clump when it is thawed. Raw doesn't, just takes forever to thaw out. I usually buy 5gal at a time, 1 fresh, 4 frozen.

 

[Auric]

When my grandfather sold the milk cows and we began to drink Mayfield's I found it almost impossible to stomach - too thin, like milk that's been heavily watered. Now I find raw milk impossible to drink, almost like buttermilk. Like drinking butter.

Nohomo (non-homogenized) fat will seperate and rise to the top so requires mixing. For the same reason, homo has a smoother texture but less flavour and a uniform fat content so even "whole" may be relatively watery.

 

[Jeff7]

...
It does freeze well. I've found regular milk to clump when it is thawed. Raw doesn't, just takes forever to thaw out. I usually buy 5gal at a time, 1 fresh, 4 frozen.

I did something similar, buying a few gallons at a time. But when I did it, freezing did always result in a lot of gooey lumps of fat that no amount of shaking or stirring seemed to break up.

2008 - tainted milk scandal:

China's 2008 tainted milk scandal laid bare some of harsher realities behind the country's economic miracle - exposing the high price that can be exacted for entrenched, institutionalised corruption and inadequate oversight during times of rapid growth.

The contamination of milk and milk products with melamine &#8211; an industrial chemical used in fertilizers and plastics - left at least four babies dead and sickened hundreds of thousands more.

http://thinkbusiness.nus.edu/articles/item/118-tainted-milk-unravelling-china%E2%80%99s-melamine-scandal

They didn't screw around with that, either. Wikipedia says that they executed some of the people responsible. (I don't know if they actually did that because they poisoned people, or because they damaged the reputation of China's exports.)

 

[crashtech]

If you want raw milk, get your own f'ing cow. One visit to a modern dairy will rid you of any notion that raw milk of unknown provenance could be considered safe.

 

[Sonikku]

If it's good enough for Immortan Joe it's good enough for me.