Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

[Hulk]

Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.

 

[Just Benching]

Can I now believe, based on this, that Intel is struggling to advance and needs to use ever increasing power consumption to improve CPU performance?

But they are not using ever increasing power. It remained steady for more than 2 years (10900k) and relatively steady for 5, while the performance increase those 5 years has been nothing short of massive. If im not mistaken the 12700k is almost twice as fast compared to the 9900k, at same wattage and lower price. The 13700k will certainly be over twice as fast.

If you HAVE to conclude that someone is struggling to advance without using increasing power consumption, that's amd, since literally they are the ones that increased the power consumption. Intel didn't, they just increased the core counts. Keep in mind, amd has kept core counts steady for the R5 and R7 models for what, 7 years now. Reminds you of someone?

 

[Zucker2k]

But they are not using ever increasing power. It remained steady for more than 2 years (10900k) and relatively steady for 5, while the performance increase those 5 years has been nothing short of massive. If im not mistaken the 12700k is almost twice as fast compared to the 9900k, at same wattage and lower price. The 13700k will certainly be over twice as fast.

If you HAVE to conclude that someone is struggling to advance without using increasing power consumption, that's amd, since literally they are the ones that increased the power consumption. Intel didn't, they just increased the core counts. Keep in mind, amd has kept core counts steady for the R5 and R7 models for what, 7 years now. Reminds you of someone?

11900k, moreso.

 

[Just Benching]

11900k, moreso.

Ah, rocketlake was a pig, the worst CPUs i can remember in recent history

 

[UsandThem]

Recent thread cleaned up, and many posts deleted.

Any further issues will result in time off.

Moderators do not want to keep having to come to this thread, and dealing with multiple reports. If it doesn't concern Raptor Lake CPUs, don't post in this thread.

AT Mod Usandthem

 

[AtenRa]

If those specs are legit, then 13400 will be wayyyy slower in gaming even with DDR5 vs Ryzen 7600X and 13700 will be very close even using DDR4 3600 cl16.

Intel 13th Gen Core "Raptor Lake-S" specifications leaked, 14 SKUs, up to 16-cores and 5.8 GHz - VideoCardz.com

Intel Raptor Lake-S lineup has been leaked All the details on upcoming 13th Gen Core clocks have been confirmed by Wccftech. Where are the times when CPUs only had base and boost clock? With the introduction of hybrid architecture of Performance and Efficient cores, multiple boost technologies...

videocardz.com

 

[DrMrLordX]

Sure, lets cherrypick numbers and reviews to match our conclusion.

Hi! Welcome new reg who is (apparently) maybe biased in the same fashion as a number of other new regs we've had over the last few months who totally doesn't seem to be part of a guerilla marketing campaign. In general it's not a good idea for anyone to cherrypick numbers, including you. But people keep trying to do so anyway. So um, take your own advice and have a nice day!

Let's be fair here, we can't openly criticize Intel for throwing efficiency out the windows while also complaining the E cores aren't scaling high enough. The E cores are there in a support role, they better run with moderate clocks.

I was actually expecting e-core speeds to go down by necessity, to bring them back to their efficiency range. There are twice as many. Anything else throws too large a power share at the e-cores, possibly at the expense of the Raptor Cove power budget.

Geekbench is a better all around benchmark for ST and MT

Ugh no thank you. Cinebench has its limitations, but . . . bleh.

 

[Asterox]

If those specs are legit, then 13400 will be wayyyy slower in gaming even with DDR5 vs Ryzen 7600X and 13700 will be very close even using DDR4 3600 cl16.

Intel 13th Gen Core "Raptor Lake-S" specifications leaked, 14 SKUs, up to 16-cores and 5.8 GHz - VideoCardz.com

Intel Raptor Lake-S lineup has been leaked All the details on upcoming 13th Gen Core clocks have been confirmed by Wccftech. Where are the times when CPUs only had base and boost clock? With the introduction of hybrid architecture of Performance and Efficient cores, multiple boost technologies...

videocardz.com

Yes it is legit, or expected if you add 4 E cores and fit all that under 65W TDP.

- 6 P Cores all core turbo only 4.1hgz vs i5 K CPU-s with 5.1ghz boost on all 6 P cores

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forums.anandtech.com

 

[nicalandia]

Ugh no thank you. Cinebench has its limitations, but . . . bleh.

Dr. Ian Cutress who I hold respect, has said that Geekbench and SPEC are the best source of IPC benchmarks.

Yes neither SPEC nor GB stress the entire CPU and System(that is why there are more benchmarks included on Reviews), but it's the closest we have to test IPC gains.

 

[Just Benching]

Hi! Welcome new reg who is (apparently) maybe biased in the same fashion as a number of other new regs we've had over the last few months who totally doesn't seem to be part of a guerilla marketing campaign

What gave it away, me [redacted] on rocket lake? Ill talk to HQ, ill tell them we should change tactics, you are onto us

Anyways, lets wait for official reviews, the leaks right now are all over the place, for both sides.


Profanity (even abbreviated profanity) is not allowed in the technical forums.

AT Mod Usandthem

 

[DrMrLordX]

What gave it away, me [redacted] on rocket lake?

Yes. Absolutely yes.

And finally yes, "let's wait for some official reviews". Glad to see you and Mark can agree on some things.

Dr. Ian Cutress who I hold respect, has said that Geekbench and SPEC are the best source of IPC benchmarks.

Don't agree. At all. The only reason why people keep using them is that they can be compiled to run on just about anything - even phone SoCs. Fortunately some sites still run CPU benchmarks and give us a larger suite of data to consider than just those two benchmarks. So hurray for that!

 

[Thunder 57]

Hi! Welcome new reg who is (apparently) maybe biased in the same fashion as a number of other new regs we've had over the last few months who totally doesn't seem to be part of a guerilla marketing campaign. In general it's not a good idea for anyone to cherrypick numbers, including you. But people keep trying to do so anyway. So um, take your own advice and have a nice day!



I was actually expecting e-core speeds to go down by necessity, to bring them back to their efficiency range. There are twice as many. Anything else throws too large a power share at the e-cores, possibly at the expense of the Raptor Cove power budget.



Ugh no thank you. Cinebench has its limitations, but . . . bleh.

The e core frequency decrease would make sanse, but it seems Intel has gone the other way seeing how P cores have a lower base clock then Alder Lake. Not by much, but it is lower.

Dr. Ian Cutress who I hold respect, has said that Geekbench and SPEC are the best source of IPC benchmarks.

Yes neither SPEC nor GB stress the entire CPU and System(that is why there are more benchmarks included on Reviews), but it's the closest we have to test IPC gains.

I don't really care for Geekbench. Cinebench is OK for testing the cores but generally leaves out memory since it seems everything fits in cache nicely. I also remember an article on Anandtech pretty much blasting SPEC, but maybe that wasn't Ian. Maybe Andrei or someone else. However, I find SPEC to be more useful than the other two.

Ideally though, as you said, a nice set of benchmarks is really the best, if not only, way to properly review a CPU. Also checking multiple sites to limit bias any one might have.

 

[DrMrLordX]

The e core frequency decrease would make sanse, but it seems Intel has gone the other way seeing how P cores have a lower base clock then Alder Lake. Not by much, but it is lower.

It may also be that everything clocks to insane levels thanks to the new 350W Insanity Mode (tm) that will probably be default on review-day motherboards.

 

[nicalandia]

It may also be that everything clocks to insane levels thanks to the new 350W Insanity Mode (tm) that will probably be default on review-day motherboards.

AMD for sure will send their review kits with beefy Water Coolers. But I have seen many reports that even high end cooling can't keep pace with Unrestrained/No Limits 13900k. I wonder what kit is Intel going to send.

Also this bracket is said to drop temps by 10 degrees. I wonder how many reviewers will us it.

 

[DrMrLordX]

AMD for sure will send their review kits with beefy Water Coolers. But I have seen many reports that even high end cooling can't keep pace with Unrestrained/No Limits 13900k. I wonder what kit is Intel going to send.

Did they send out coolers for Alder Lake?

Also this bracket is said to drop temps by 10 degrees. I wonder how many reviewers will us it.

One wonders why Intel wouldn't start bugging OEMs to add something like that to their own motherboards.

 

[Just Benching]

AMD for sure will send their review kits with beefy Water Coolers. But I have seen many reports that even high end cooling can't keep pace with Unrestrained/No Limits 13900k. I wonder what kit is Intel going to send.

Also this bracket is said to drop temps by 10 degrees. I wonder how many reviewers will us it.

View attachment 67112

View attachment 67113

13900k should be easier to cool than the 12900k at same wattage (240w).

The kit only works with flat coolers, if you have a convex cooler doesn't do much.

 

[Kosusko]

If those specs are legit, then 13400 will be wayyyy slower in gaming even with DDR5 vs Ryzen 7600X and 13700 will be very close even using DDR4 3600 cl16.

Intel 13th Gen Core "Raptor Lake-S" specifications leaked, 14 SKUs, up to 16-cores and 5.8 GHz - VideoCardz.com

Intel Raptor Lake-S lineup has been leaked All the details on upcoming 13th Gen Core clocks have been confirmed by Wccftech. Where are the times when CPUs only had base and boost clock? With the introduction of hybrid architecture of Performance and Efficient cores, multiple boost technologies...

videocardz.com

Core i9 13900k with 5.5GHz for eight Raptor Cove P-cores (of which two at 5.8GHz) and L2 cache 2MB per core + sixteen 4.3GHz for atomic Gracemont E-cores with 4MB L2 cache per quad core cluster is a very decent increase over the Alder Lake core i9 12900k.
The paradigm shift in Intel Raptor Lake processors continues.
Awesome.

 

[nicalandia]

13900k should be easier to cool than the 12900k at same wattage (240w).

Stock vs Stock? Yes, but with no power limits that CPU will be harder to cool than a 12900K

 

[Just Benching]

Stock vs Stock? Yes, but with no power limits that CPU will be harder to cool than a 12900K

Sure but what's the point, youd gain what, 5% performance going from 240 to 350 watts or something? Any CPU boosting over 150-170w should be illegal, the diminishing returns are kicking in hard.

 

[Rigg]

This link is BS, for one the 5950X does 26196 pts at stock while your link say 24643, the 5900X is not listed but does 22046 pts

The 12900K@125W score is not heavily outperforming the 5900X, according to Computerbase the difference is about 10%..

Intel Core i9-12900K, i7-12700K & i5-12600K im Test: Benchmarks in Anwendungen

Intel Alder Lake im Test: Benchmarks in Anwendungen / Ein rekordverdächtiger Testumfang / Windows 10 vs. Windows 11

www.computerbase.de

Intel Core i9-12900K, i7-12700K & i5-12600K im Test: Leistung und Effizienz P- vs. E-Core

Intel Alder Lake im Test: Leistung und Effizienz P- vs. E-Core / Wie effizient ist die Hybrid-Architektur?

www.computerbase.de

Intel Core i9-12900K at 125W | Club386

Little performance is lost when dropping power substantially.

www.club386.com

This is kind of hilarious. The site really screams objectivity.

 

[nicalandia]

Any CPU boosting over 150-170w should be illegal, the diminishing returns are kicking in hard.

I agree...!

 

[nicalandia]

Has anyone beside this dude been able to post gaming benchmarks for the 13900K?



That CS-GO game which seems to be a tie between the High End Gaming CPU(5800XD, 12900K/KS) seems to like Zen4 more than any other uArch.

 

[nicalandia]

Why is CPU-Z ST not showing any IPC gains on Raptor Lake?(Also no IPC was found on Zen4 from Zen3)

 

[mikk]

That CS-GO game which seems to be a tie between the High End Gaming CPU(5800XD, 12900K/KS) seems to like Zen4 more than any other uArch.

This test isn't really meaningful. Pre final motherboards with pre final bios might have suboptimal memory performance which hinders gaming performance. And something is clearly off there considering 13900K clocks 600 Mhz higher.

 

[nicalandia]

This test isn't really meaningful. Pre final motherboards with pre final bios might have suboptimal memory performance which hinders gaming performance. And something is clearly off there considering 13900K clocks 600 Mhz higher.

That is why I was asking if we had any more gaming leaks.

Also...The 13900K will boost to 6.1 Ghz?(It's 5.5 Ghz on that test)

 

[mikk]

That is why I was asking if we had any more gaming leaks.

Also...The 13900K will boost to 6.1 Ghz?(It's 5.5 Ghz on that test)

5.5 Ghz 13900K vs 4.9 Ghz 12900K. +600 Mhz