RANT: Why do drivers have to pay for everything?

amdhunter

Lifer
May 19, 2003
23,324
219
106
/rant on

NYC Transit is looking for ways to keep costs down for people who take public transportation.

Almost every way they want to make money is to tax drivers. They want to add a toll to go to Manhattan ($8) and add surcharges to drivers registrations, inspections...etc.

How about this? Make the people who ACTUALLY TAKE THE BUS/TRAINS pay more for their rides. It's bullshit that I already pay a ton of registration fees, insurance and gasoline taxes, so that people who don't have cars can benefit.

Make them pay $5 a ride. It's not a whole lot of money. Gas costs even more than that $5 in the long run, and people still manage to make a living. And that's not even including insurance or car payments...

If drivers can get by, public transportation users should be able to get by also.

Seriously, the reason I have a car is so that I don't have to stand next to some jackass on a crowded ass train, and I am being punished because of this. And I love the excuse that its all "enviornmentally friendly." Man, the enviornment has been here for at least 4000 years, and it isn't going anywhere. I am tired of hearing that treehugger shit.

Seriously, it needs to stop.

/rant off

Cliffs
- NY'ers who take public transportation should pay more if they want more, not depend on people who have cars.
 

tasmanian

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2006
3,813
1
0
Drivers should not have to pay for public transportation. If there has to be a tax at least tax everyone.
 

A Casual Fitz

Diamond Member
May 16, 2005
4,654
1,018
136
Insurance, gas, misc. fees, car payments, potential accidents which could mean injury (medical bills), lawsuits, insurance going up etc...

Basically I agree with OP 100%
 

vshah

Lifer
Sep 20, 2003
19,003
24
81
shit like this scares me, i'm moving to NY next year and i want to take my car
 

Jschmuck2

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2005
5,623
3
81
Originally posted by: amdhunter
/rant on

NYC Transit is looking for ways to keep costs down for people who take public transportation.

Almost every way they want to make money is to tax drivers. They want to add a toll to go to Manhattan ($8) and add surcharges to drivers registrations, inspections...etc.

How about this? Make the people who ACTUALLY TAKE THE BUS/TRAINS pay more for their rides. It's bullshit that I already pay a ton of registration fees, insurance and gasoline taxes, so that people who don't have cars can benefit.

Make them pay $5 a ride. It's not a whole lot of money. Gas costs even more than that $5 in the long run, and people still manage to make a living. And that's not even including insurance or car payments...

If drivers can get by, public transportation users should be able to get by also.

Seriously, the reason I have a car is so that I don't have to stand next to some jackass on a crowded ass train, and I am being punished because of this. And I love the excuse that its all "enviornmentally friendly." Man, the enviornment has been here for at least 4000 years, and it isn't going anywhere. I am tired of hearing that treehugger shit.

Seriously, it needs to stop.

/rant off

Cliffs
- NY'ers who take public transportation should pay more if they want more, not depend on people who have cars.

That is fantastic.
 

amdhunter

Lifer
May 19, 2003
23,324
219
106
Originally posted by: vshah
shit like this scares me, i'm moving to NY next year and i want to take my car

It's unbelievable lately. Governor Patterson also wants to remove the $2 limit on gasoline taxes. Right now, NY can only tax up to $2 a gallon and that's it. Patterson wants to not only remove that limit, but actually raise it a few percent also...

It's non-stop taxing here. I don't understand how they can just make up new taxes like that. :|
 

amdhunter

Lifer
May 19, 2003
23,324
219
106
Originally posted by: Sasiki
1. Move from New York.
2. Save $8.
3. Profit.

Honestly, if it weren't such a tough job market...I would. I don't want to relocate with the little money that I have.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,074
5,557
146
OP you should look into the studies about traffic congestion and commuting. There's a lot of economics and a ton of factors involved. I'm not saying what they're doing would even make sense within some of the models, but there are plenty of reasons for what they are doing.
 

Leros

Lifer
Jul 11, 2004
21,867
7
81
Public transportation can't be too expensive though because lower income people rely on it too. So you can't just raise rates on the public transportation, the funds need to come from somewhere else.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,032
26,909
136
Public transportation allows poor people to get to their jobs. Raise the price and be prepared to pay low wage/low skill workers more so your toilets get scrubbed, your floors vacuumed, and your fries fried. One way or another you pay.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,914
3
0
Probably has to do with supply-demand.. if the roads are clogged, just make them more expensive to use. Make money while relieving traffic, it is a win-win. Think of it this way--if you didn't pay all those fees, there would be a hell of a lot more people on the road and you'd be complaining about traffic.
 

Lurknomore

Golden Member
Jul 3, 2005
1,310
0
0
They need to do a better job if they want to push congestion pricing. Instead of $8 per car, how bout $0 for 4 or more people, $.50 for 3, $1 for 2, and $2 for 1 (I know, implementing this will be impossible). And tolls are out of the question- NO WAY I'm gonna wait on the Queensboro just so some jackass fumbles for his change- they're gonna have to revamp the tech so they can do a high-speed read on our plates or EZ pass. Still, major fumbles, hurdles, mismanagement, it's gonna be a nightmare. Better if they had just raised the transit fare to $2.50 over the summer (still a bargain compared to other cities around the world)
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
55,856
13,974
146
It's called social engineering by legal decree and tax. They are taxing drivers and giving it to mass transit in an effort to "encourage" drivers to take the bus/train instead.

Yea for redistribution of wealth!
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,599
19
81
Originally posted by: amdhunter
Seriously, the reason I have a car is so that I don't have to stand next to some jackass on a crowded ass train, and I am being punished because of this. And I love the excuse that its all "enviornmentally friendly." Man, the enviornment has been here for at least 4000 years, and it isn't going anywhere. I am tired of hearing that treehugger shit.
Heh, yeah, at least 4000 years.
Try 13 billion or so; Earth for 4.6 billion.

Also, the issue of course isn't really that we save the environment for its sake, but for ours. We live in it, and if we screw it up, we're just screwing ourselves.

 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
94,999
15,122
126
Stop bitching. Here in Toronto we got slapped with a Toronto Plate Fee, but the plate is for the province of Ontario. So we pay plate to province and city.

Greater NY public transit is vital to the survival of everyone who lives there, even the ones who don't take transit. Think about the millions of people that are on transit right now cease to do so and take the road. It would be faster to walk.

I wish Toronto get the kind of help in transit funding from the state/provincial level government the way NYC does. Greater New York transit coverage is exemplary.
 

Zee

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 1999
5,171
3
76
you know another Bullshit? out in long island, Long Island Power (LIPA) had to raise rates because power was expensive. So people were cutting back and conserving.

Now lipa is raising rates again and you want to know why?

Because not enough people were using power.

::black trenchcoat mode::
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
Originally posted by: Amused
It's called social engineering by legal decree and tax. They are taxing drivers and giving it to mass transit in an effort to "encourage" drivers to take the bus/train instead.

Yea for redistribution of wealth!

Exactly. Minus the sarcastic retarded comment at the bottom of your post, because this isn't redistribution of wealth, it's keeping a fucking city running. In cities where traffic is a serious problem, there has to be motivation to utilize public transportation.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
55,856
13,974
146
Originally posted by: skace
Originally posted by: Amused
It's called social engineering by legal decree and tax. They are taxing drivers and giving it to mass transit in an effort to "encourage" drivers to take the bus/train instead.

Yea for redistribution of wealth!

Exactly. Minus the sarcastic retarded comment at the bottom of your post, because this isn't redistribution of wealth, it's keeping a fucking city running. In cities where traffic is a serious problem, there has to be motivation to utilize public transportation.

So the people with cars have to subsidize the transportation costs of people who do not have/can not afford cars?

Up until the gas bubble, the majority of mass transit outside of cities like New York and Chicago was used by the poor.

The motivation should be service and value. Not picking the pockets of one group to serve the needs of another.

Public Transportation in the US, including Amtrak is a fine example of "From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need." because fares alone sure aren't paying the costs of it. Taxpayers and drivers are.
 

geno

Lifer
Dec 26, 1999
25,074
4
0
Originally posted by: amdhunter
/rant on
Man, the enviornment has been here for at least 4000 years, and it isn't going anywhere.

wtf? :confused:


/rant on
/logic off?

 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,032
26,909
136
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: skace
Originally posted by: Amused
It's called social engineering by legal decree and tax. They are taxing drivers and giving it to mass transit in an effort to "encourage" drivers to take the bus/train instead.

Yea for redistribution of wealth!

Exactly. Minus the sarcastic retarded comment at the bottom of your post, because this isn't redistribution of wealth, it's keeping a fucking city running. In cities where traffic is a serious problem, there has to be motivation to utilize public transportation.

So the people with cars have to subsidize the transportation costs of people who do not have/can not afford cars?

Up until the gas bubble, the majority of mass transit outside of cities like New York and Chicago was used by the poor.

The motivation should be service and value. Not picking the pockets of one group to serve the needs of another.

Public Transportation in the US, including Amtrak is a fine example of "From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need." because fares alone sure aren't paying the costs of it. Taxpayers and drivers are.

If service and value are your goals then public transportation is a hell of a lot cheaper and more efficient than public road building. We have a wasteful, grandiose system of public roads because we are rich and can afford this luxury.

We pick the pockets of the better off because there is no point in picking the pockets of the poor; they got no money.

Now there are simple ways to make public transportation more efficient. First, get rid of separate school bus systems for all but the youngest children. Middle school kids and up should ride the city buses. This provides a base ridership for the city bus service and also promotes life long ridership.
 

DarrelSPowers

Senior member
Jul 9, 2008
782
1
0
If you took away all the tolls, taxes, fees and whatever, what do you think driving in NYC would be like? There's over 8 million people, imagine everyone had to have their car? All the extra costs do is make you work that much harder to keep driving instead of mass commuting or biking. I say, keep piling on the tolls. Until I'm rich as hell I've got no problem taking public transit.

So I guess ask yourself, why are you unable to take public transit? Are you above the peons that are carried about their daily lives above and below the streets of NYC? Or are you just a germaphobe like me who hates hopping in the germ boxes that are subway cars? Try riding a bike to work. You maintain your independence from the train schedule, and get in shape at the same time.
 

MrChad

Lifer
Aug 22, 2001
13,507
3
81
The goal of the tax is specifically to discourage driving into the city and drive more folks to public transportation. Manhattan already has way too much traffic and there is little they can do in the way of infrastructure to reduce congestion on the roads.

In most cases, taking public transportation in NYC is many, many times easier and less stressful than driving in my experience (I lived there for 3 years).