Rant time

mindless

Senior member
Oct 9, 1999
661
0
0
There are a few things I must say, and I know I am going to get flamed for this but I dont care so go right ahead.

Dnet: They are the ones who had the bright idea of setting up their clients so that the ONLY active project gets lowest priority, which would be fine as long as they didnt reintroduce new projects without warning people about it and about how the blocks they are cracking are not only for another competition but are invalid. how fscking wonderful of them.

I understand they are volunteers but there is no better way to chase people away from a project than by changing what they are doing without even telling them. Smart move there dnet, I came very close to saying screw you.

The TA RR: Yes the wonderful idea that was conjured up to prevent us from cracking randoms when Mika's goes down. Sure it works great until Mika's actually goes down. I completely removed my dnet clients and proxy today, and had them off most of the day (when I upgraded to the 318 proxy my clients couldnt receive blocks, I take the blame for that) and when I load them all back on I go to get me some blocks from Mika's, its down. No biggy I say Ill just try out that new TA RR everyone is touting so much. Well youll never guess what, After 4 tries I still hadnt downloaded a single block, why you may ask? Because every proxy it tried was out of RC5 blocks, couple had OGR, but Im not an Ogre, Im a crack baby. So what did I do? I connected to the trusty Dnet servers. So you RR creators, either fix your RR so it doesnt send people to proxy's without blocks or drop it, its worthless when Mika's goes down.

Dnet: Ive got another problem with them, All my clients are set up to crack 2^33 blocks, well their server only feeds my proxy 2^28 blocks and thus Im still cracking 2^28 blocks. Now if your going to tell everyone that you would like it if they cracked 2^33 blocks maybe you should make it so we could acctually receive 2^33 blocks?

[/rant]

Now Im going to go play a little UT while the flames roll in
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
mindless, I'll talk to the Baby Bovine operators, and have them boost their in-buffers, as it seems they didn't last as quickly as expected.:( As for your block size problem, it's not all Dnet's fault. By the looks of it, we're nearing the end of a keyspace block, which menas Dnet needs to finish it before moving on to the next. However, most of the missing parts are 2^28 blocks, so those have to be finished in order to move it. There's also the issue with pproxies(which can break up blocks to get the small ones people ask for), so your stats addicted neighbor that uses 2^28 blocks on a Athlon 1ghz is also to blame here.:(
 

dvch

Senior member
Jun 28, 2000
752
0
0
You missed atleast one Mindless-putting out an updated pproxy to fix KNOWN issues in OGR with already released hosts-AFTER restarting OGR thus causing lots of lost cpu cycles; you know, those things we were tring not to waste.
 

MWalkden

Golden Member
Dec 7, 1999
1,082
0
0
More of the same ol stuff if you ask me! Now the RR is new, and I am betting alot of them went to OGR too, no surprise that RC5 would be left out to dry! Guess it was meant to be, RC5 may die. Just think, if DanC skips the sh!t, and the crackheads blow the snow, add that to the OGR flow and RC5 will fall off the map!

Guess we really won't be missed!
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
Guys, calm down a bit. OGR isDnet's true scientific project, and as such, was obviously placed ahead of RC5. While it's a pain sometimes, it's not something we can't fix. RC5 was ment to make Dnet some starting money, test their method, ect. While I'm sure that it won't grow as much as in past months, by no means is it dead. You can be sure RC5 will be continuing on, and that I, BK, JonB, Mika, and other fellow TA members will continue to crack RC5 until its over, and almost nothing will change that. Dnet is an organization run by humans, and as such, is vulerable to mistakes, which these are part of. Just reconfigure your clients, pick yourself up, and continue cracking RC5, because we may be down, but are far from out!:D
 

dvch

Senior member
Jun 28, 2000
752
0
0
OK Virge give me my 1500+ blks from yesterday. Give me back a little silly hope of being treated in a respectful manner by Dnet in the future.
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
Give me your email address, and I'll give you your 1500 blocks.
 

Russ

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
21,093
3
0
I'm just as pissed as you guys, but I'm all ranted out on this one. For me, it's time to get back to finding more parts for the crack rack.:) If TA Cube loses Two, I'm going to need all I can get to stay ahead of them TWTA guys.:D

Russ, NCNE
 

RaySun2Be

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
16,565
6
71
I'm irritated, because I was away when they switched to OGR. Since I was around the last time OGR started, I had set the project priority to crack RC5 only. it would have been nice for DNET to give at least a week's notice of the official cut-over date, to allow those that didn't want to switch time to take care of their herds.

Maybe we should put a very noticable warning section in the TA FAQ stating how the project switch takes place, and provide ways to prevent the automatic switch to other RC5 projects.
 

mechBgon

Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
Oct 31, 1999
30,699
1
0
I'm not belittling anyone's beef (hahaha!) with Dnet, but please, Team Anandtech RC5-64, don't disintegrate because of some preventable discouragements :( Remember, you aren't here for Dnet, you're here for yourselves: Team Anandtech, a fantastic team that many teams could never hope to be, not only in size, but in spirit! What's done is done. Who's ready to move forward?
 

mindless

Senior member
Oct 9, 1999
661
0
0
Virge
Thats fine if thats all thats available, but not even a week ago Dnet started pushing everyone using 2^33 blocks, now why start that now if all they have is 2^28 blocks available currently?

Thats fine if OGR is their main project now, but it doesnt make sense to place a project that isnt even running with a higher priority than one that is. Besides when I signed up over a year ago I signed up for RC5, was OGR even known about then? Sure I quite cracking till this past June when OGR was in its disabled state. I had just assumed it was like the DES and others that had been canned and would NEVER affect me, or at least not until RC5 was done.

Russ
I really, really hope two doesnt can RC5, I dont blame him if he does but he contributes ALOT of blocks to TA. And if by chance he does, that motherboard and CPU you sent me (I mailed you shipping today) is going to be cracking under your email.



<< it would have been nice for DNET to give at least a week's notice of the official cut-over date, to allow those that didn't want to switch time to take care of their herds. >>



EXACTLY This thread wouldn't exist had they done that.

mechbgon
Im not leaving now, not unless Dnet finds a way to sneak a contest in front of RC5 again.

thecool1
I dont know whos proxys I connected to, but I do know that I gave the RR three tries and then connected to Dnet who filled up my Proxy with blocks. I am now switched back to either the RR or Mika's, I forget which ;)


It appears most people are agreeing with me, thats a first :), which should be very concerning to Dnet, Im still unhappy with them for wasting my CPU time but not pissed anymore, I have UT to thank for that :p
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
Mindless, the 2^33 thing is the early warning you wanted. Once the new keyspace opens up, Dnet just wants everyone to use the 2^33 so it doesn't fragment as much.
 

mindless

Senior member
Oct 9, 1999
661
0
0
Now it makes so much more sense, Dnet is more concerned about the key space being fragmented than keeping its users up to date on their projects which they switched people over to without warning.
 

Viztech

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,807
0
0
Mindless-

Good rant.
It's interesting that you found the loophole in the RR robin idea, since under normal cicumstances all the RR proxies get their blocks from Mika. Under an extended outage, the RR operators can manually fetch from Dnet, and unattended cows will eventually find a RR that has keys. Overbuffering a proxy will just open us up to the possibility of cracking stale blocks, as PProxies do not issue the oldest block in the in-buffer. Clients on the other hand munch the oldest block after the partially completed ones.

This is part of the reason why some crackers draw blocks direct from Dnet when they are working on a mega-flush. There is a better chance that they will not be reissued before the flush, keeping the system more efficient and a better chance of getting credit on the Dnet stats.

As for the changeover of clients, I still have ~40 machines to do in the herd and a PProxy to install so I can work both RC5 and OGR properly. I had better get to work.

How did the UT match go, anyway?

viz
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
My pproxy should have had about 60,000 or more blocks in it. I can tell from Mika's stats that it wasn't drained, as I can just look at the hostnames working for my server.

The one problem with the RR is that it isn't true load balancing. Clueless proxy will be drained faster than mine, since he has people connecting directly to it rather than getting to it through the RR. If the server you connect to through the RR is out of blocks, then you're out of luck until the next time it tries to connects and grabs the next server in the list.

It would be a good move on your part if you buffered your clients with a couple days of work also. If everyone's clients had 2-3 days worth of work buffered, plus the RR had a couple days of work buffered, we could survive a pretty long outage without losing too many blocks.
 

Nugget94M

Junior Member
Apr 9, 2000
7
0
0
I want to apologize to mindless and the other distributed.net participants who were caught off-guard by the seemingly sudden reintroduction of the ogr project. If you can believe it, the mood among the distributed.net staff was quite the opposite. Our primary concern at the point of ogr rollout was that we were really losing credibility by having taken so long to get ogr up and running again.

I suppose we let those fears overshadow prudence and we ended up handling the resumption of ogr a lot less elegantly than we should have. Certainly the oversight regarding the 317 proxies / pproxies handing off ogr work to clients which are too old to do ogr should have been prevented. And I'll be the first to admit that the client's configuration functions for project priority are unnecessarily complicated and confusing, which is bound to result in frustration as participants' clients don't behave as desired.

We felt the clock ticking, and were extremely motivated to roll out ogr sooner rather than later, and I'm afraid it didn't work out as well as it should have. I'm sorry for the inconvinence it's caused.

As to the large block issue, the continued assignment of 2^28's is just the messy result of past 2^28 requests. Even if we could ensure 100% conversion to 2^33-configured clients it would take a while to clear out all the gaps left in the open keyspace from previous 2^28 requests. Just as an aside (since you guys make considerable use of pproxies) when a pproxy requests work from the keyserver network it will always request 2^35 blocks and will then split those large blocks up into appropriately-sized units for the clients which connect to it, so the issue of open space fragmentation actually takes place on a pproxy-level as well as the primary network level.
 

dvch

Senior member
Jun 28, 2000
752
0
0
Nugget94M-Thank you very much for posting.:D It is nice to know that perhaps in the future some thought will be given to the problems created as well as those that are to be solved by Dnet's actions.
 

Jator

Golden Member
Jun 14, 2000
1,445
7
81
As another of the rr proxie admins, I must apologize. I was out of town this past weekend and had just upgraded to the 318 version. Unfortunatly, my console logging option was left off when I upgraded, so I can't see how my proxy was over the weekend. I do keep 80,000 rc5 blocks in it, so unless someone hit me with a massive request, I can't see my pproxy running out of blocks so quickly. But alas, without the log file, I can't say for sure. You can trust that it is enabled now though.

Jay

P.S. Hang in there guys, we are going through some growing pains, but we'll get there!!! ;)
 

mechBgon

Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
Oct 31, 1999
30,699
1
0
Nugget, thanks for the clarifications :) Personally, I figured that the delay in reintroducing OGR was due to testing, so that it would go smoothly and without further setbacks. You are right about the CLI interface, I look forward to the GUI add-on that I heard you guys are developing. That might make the program seem a bit less arcane to new participants. :)

It's amazing that Dnet has proceeded to the level that it has reached, it must have been hard to get momentum at first. Keep up the good work, Nugget.
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
Thanks for the reply Nugget. It confirms what I thought was true, and helps to explain it to everyone.:)
 

mindless

Senior member
Oct 9, 1999
661
0
0
viztech It appears that there wasnt any problems with buffering, but maybe in the way the RR works, I connected three times and got the response of no blocks, but several have stated their proxy's had lots of blocks, so I think the fault lies in the way the RR works.

My UT game went well, nothing like fragging a few bots to relieve a little stress.

BoberFett I normally have 4000 blocks (that will last me 4 days) buffered in my proxy, but when I upgraded my pproxy it wouldnt send blocks out of my buffers I had copied over. So I simply flushed all the blocks I had done and deleted the whole thing, the 4000 uncracked blocks included. Im not sure why the 318 proxy wasnt sending out the blocks the 313 had buffered but I know it wouldnt.

Nugget94M Thats understandable, but please next time if you know you are nearing the release of a project let everyone know, just state that you are working very hard on XXX project and it should be up within a week or so as long as everything goes as planned. That would give everyone a chance to look over their settings and make sure they are going to continue cracking on what they want.
BTW thanks for posting in here, helps restore the lost faith I had in you guys.
 

MWalkden

Golden Member
Dec 7, 1999
1,082
0
0
Thank you Nugget for taking the time to post. Allot of folks are new and found this rollout of OGR very troublesome. I am glad to know that Dnet will consider future rollouts with this event in mind. Additionally, the AT FAQ has been updated to warn/inform folks what must be done to maintain RC5. These things at least tell us that someone does care. That is real important to me personally since I have invested time and money to the project.

I can accept mistakes, but would find it hard to swallow lack of responsibility for them. AT already accepted theirs, and now Dnet has too. It makes it much easier to get back to cracking knowing future consideration for the people supporting these projects exists.