RANT: Israeli Occuptaion vs. Suicide Bombing is not Tit for Tat !

[Bulk Beef]

Lonyo, your attitude of "Israel should not be here" is exactly what will prolong this conflict indefinitely, or at least until one of the parties involved ceases to exist.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: polm

both sides need to change what they do if there is ever going to be peace between them, the current administration in Israel wont do anything and the "current" administration of the Palestinians cant do anything.
Its going to be extremely hard for them to change but it must happen, thats why all diplomatic talk is better than whats going on there right now.

So how do you change the leadership ?

I dont know how you create new leadership in Palestine.

But I DO know how to do it in Israel. It is called Democracy. If you convice the majority of Israelis that Negotiations will get them somewhere, they WILL elect a leader to do just that.

But as long as they are scared they will NOT elect anyone besides Sharon and his Right-Wing government.

How do you convice the Israelis ? I think by stopping the Suicide Bombs you would have the best chance.

From how things look right now, both sides wont change except with the help of outside influence. That influence should be used to empower the peace movements in both countries, they are the only ones who actually want a long term diplomatic solution.

The problem though with this all is that people generaly only think short term unless forced to do otherwise. So when either side gets attacked peoples human instincts kicks in and people quickly think of a short term solution and that usualy involves attacking the attacker. When this has been going on for so long the hatred will be so strong that it will take at least one or two generations to make it go away.

Sometimes I think the best sollution is the original one from the UN, split up the country and then Jerusalem would become a UN controled international zone, radical but this conflicts needs something radical because what both sides are doing certanly isnt helping

 

[polm]

From how things look right now, both sides wont change except with the help of outside influence. That influence should be used to empower the peace movements in both countries, they are the only ones who actually want a long term diplomatic solution.

The problem though with this all is that people generaly only think short term unless forced to do otherwise. So when either side gets attacked peoples human instincts kicks in and people quickly think of a short term solution and that usualy involves attacking the attacker. When this has been going on for so long the hatred will be so strong that it will take at least one or two generations to make it go away.

Sometimes I think the best sollution is the original one from the UN, split up the country and then Jerusalem would become a UN controled international zone, radical but this conflicts needs something radical because what both sides are doing certanly isnt helping

Actually change was about to occur in Israel. It still might. Amram Mitzna can turn things around . I swear it ! The recent Attacks may have reuined our chances at getting Mitzna in as PM, but I still hold on to hope.

Here is an article today about Amram Mitzna : Check it out

And here is Haaretz's most recent poll : Jan 9th Opinion Poll

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: polm

From how things look right now, both sides wont change except with the help of outside influence. That influence should be used to empower the peace movements in both countries, they are the only ones who actually want a long term diplomatic solution.

The problem though with this all is that people generaly only think short term unless forced to do otherwise. So when either side gets attacked peoples human instincts kicks in and people quickly think of a short term solution and that usualy involves attacking the attacker. When this has been going on for so long the hatred will be so strong that it will take at least one or two generations to make it go away.

Sometimes I think the best sollution is the original one from the UN, split up the country and then Jerusalem would become a UN controled international zone, radical but this conflicts needs something radical because what both sides are doing certanly isnt helping

Actually change was about to occur in Israel. It still might. Amram Mitzna can turn things around . I swear it ! The recent Attacks may have reuined our chances at getting Mitzna in as PM, but I still hold on to hope.

Here is an article today about Amram Mitzna : Check it out

And here is Haaretz's most recent poll : Jan 9th Opinion Poll

and hopefully it will change, Mitzna sounds much better than Sharon

If he gets elected then a Palestinian reform must happen before his term is over, if another right wing gov gets elected then it doesnt matter if the Palestinians leadership actually does change and the terrorist groups actually do stop.

 

[polm]

and hopefully it will change, Mitzna sounds much better than Sharon

If he gets elected then a Palestinian reform must happen before his term is over, if another right wing gov gets elected then it doesnt matter if the Palestinians leadership actually does change and the terrorist groups actually do stop.

I just know that Mitzna's chances, along with Labor, were seriously damaged by the bombings in TelAviv.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: sandorski
Polm: The problem is that some Palestinians are of the furthest extreme(those who want Israel exterminated) and as such they would continue their campaign, but as it stands now many Palestinians who wouldn't be that extreme are pushed to that extreme by continued hopelessness.

If Israel would just take the first significant step, eventually the bombing would stop. It would seem that Israelis rather enjoy the cycle though, at least their continued hard line would indicate that.

You contradict yourself. You are right that many fundamentalist Palestinians would not stop the violence regardless of whether Israel dismantles the settlements. They want NO Israel. Unfortunately, it is these fundamentalists (Hamas...) who control Palestinian society. How can you then claim the violence will stop if Israel takes the first step? Perhaps if they took the first step?into the sea?

No contradiction in my statement, I said "eventually" the bombing would stop. For a time the extremsits would continue to bomb, but their numbers would dwindle over time.

BTW, stating that Apartheid is where Israel is headed does not take a lot of nerve.

 

[Moonbeam]

Ouote:

Moonebeam..at what point do you expect people to take responsiblity for their own actions ?
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Hehe, I WAS talking about the Isralis taking responsibility for their actions. The guy with all the card has to deal.