<rant>Apple iPod support sucks</rant>

[AmdInside]

I've had my 20GB iPod since May of this year. About a month ago, it has started giving me a problem that really bothers me. If I am transferring large amounts of files (about 7GB or more), then it gives an error after a while of transferring. I have reproduced this problem on my desktop, laptop and my friends laptop with different firewire cables. I have flashed the firmware to the latest version and formatted the drive several times but no luck. So I take I call the Apple store and ask if I can bring it in for servicing and they say yes, I can. So I go in and stand in line for 1 1/2 hours. Then its my turn and I hand them my iPod complete in its box with everthing that it came bundled with. They just give me my unit back and say that they can't service it because it is the PC version and not the Mac version. I would have to send it in to Apple. Very frustrating that I wasted so much time.

So I send it to Apple. I just got it back, very quickly I might add. I check the documenation and see that all they have done was flash the firmware to the latest version and run an Apple diagnostic. They claimed it passed and so they returned it to me. I carefully wrote down repro instructions on how to easily reproduce the problem. I included a screenshot of the problem. What a waste again. Not only did they not really do anything for me, but they scuffed the bottom part of my ipod really badly. I had it in prestine condition and now it looks like its been outside of a case all this time. Damn Apple. As soon as I get off from work, they are going to hear from me.

 

[Eug]

Originally posted by: AmdInside
I've had my 20GB iPod since May of this year. About a month ago, it has started giving me a problem that really bothers me. If I am transferring large amounts of files (about 7GB or more), then it gives an error after a while of transferring. I have reproduced this problem on my desktop, laptop and my friends laptop with different firewire cables. I have flashed the firmware to the latest version and formatted the drive several times but no luck. So I take I call the Apple store and ask if I can bring it in for servicing and they say yes, I can. So I go in and stand in line for 1 1/2 hours. Then its my turn and I hand them my iPod complete in its box with everthing that it came bundled with. They just give me my unit back and say that they can't service it because it is the PC version and not the Mac version. I would have to send it in to Apple. Very frustrating that I wasted so much time.

So I send it to Apple. I just got it back, very quickly I might add. I check the documenation and see that all they have done was flash the firmware to the latest version and run an Apple diagnostic. They claimed it passed and so they returned it to me. I carefully wrote down repro instructions on how to easily reproduce the problem. I included a screenshot of the problem. What a waste again. Not only did they not really do anything for me, but they scuffed the bottom part of my ipod really badly. I had it in prestine condition and now it looks like its been outside of a case all this time. Damn Apple. As soon as I get off from work, they are going to hear from me.

Yeah, it does look like they need to follow up some more, and the scuffing is something they should also know about.

 

[BoomAM]

Which Generation iPod is it?
If you check out www.ipodlounge.com , there are some instructions on there on how to do the iPod "scandisk". You might also get some more informative help from them there, as that forum specialises in iPods. Not to say that AT is crap, cos it aint, its just that "dedicated" forums tend to throw up more answers, and quicker.

 

[AmdInside]

Thanks. I'll try it out when I get home.

 

[EeyoreX]

Glad there is a forum that deals specifically with the iPod. Though, it really is too bad he has to go to another source for help and information, since I'd think Apple should do right by the customer, and they should also "specialize" in their own products...

Good luck though...

\Dan

 

[Go3iverson]

Check to see if it errors out on the same track transfer. I had some corrupt mp3's in my iTunes library that would cause a full sync to error. I removed the affected mp3's and I was off and running again.

 

[AmdInside]

I managed to find time to finally visit iPod Lounges website and learned about the iPods Diagnostic Utility. I used it to test the hard drive and sure enough, it failed just as I had thought it would. This confirms my belief that there was a problem with the iPod. Now time to b1tch at Apple cause they claimed it passed their diagnostics tests before they sent it to me.

 

[McCarthy]

Not only did they not really do anything for me, but they scuffed the bottom part of my ipod really badly.

Nah, they probably didn't scratch it up. The last owner did. Unless you have some way of knowing it was yours.
"iPod equipment that is sent in for battery service or service requiring other repairs will be replaced with functionally equivalent new, used, or refurbished iPod equipment. You will not receive the same iPod that was sent in for service."

Another interesting thread on the iPod and lacking customer service from Apple here in OT.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by: McCarthy

Not only did they not really do anything for me, but they scuffed the bottom part of my ipod really badly.

Nah, they probably didn't scratch it up. The last owner did. Unless you have some way of knowing it was yours.
"iPod equipment that is sent in for battery service or service requiring other repairs will be replaced with functionally equivalent new, used, or refurbished iPod equipment. You will not receive the same iPod that was sent in for service."

Another interesting thread on the iPod and lacking customer service from Apple here in OT.

I don't know if that is an example of "lacking customer serivce" because in the thread you linked to and in same-topic threads on other boards the popular opion seems to be that the guys who made the movie are idiots and/or the movie is dated and no longer relevent.


Lethal

 

[AmdInside]

Well, I called Apple but alas, I wasn't rude to the tech support person cause I know it isn't her fault. But I did express my displeasure with Apple and she did agree that the tech who looked at my iPod did not do their job correctly. I hope they fix it right this time. :frown:

 

[Jeff7181]

Wow... paid all that money for a quality Apple product with a nice warranty and ya get jacked around like that. What a shame. That is another reason why Apple will never ever get a penny from me.

 

[MDE]

This makes me want to reconsider salivating over an iPod and get a Nomad Zen NX instead... decisions, decisions...

 

[AmdInside]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Wow... paid all that money for a quality Apple product with a nice warranty and ya get jacked around like that. What a shame. That is another reason why Apple will never ever get a penny from me.

Yeah. I was considering purchasing an Apple ipod 3rd generation one before this iPod went bad on me. I am really glad I didn't now that I see how Apple's support is.

 

[McCarthy]

I don't know if that is an example of "lacking customer serivce" because in the thread you linked to and in same-topic threads on other boards the popular opion seems to be that the guys who made the movie are idiots and/or the movie is dated and no longer relevent.

I don't get how they're idiots. Guy calls up the support line, gets a rather disappointing answer to his problem, makes a commentary film to alert others. Now apparently Apple has changed their policy and will replace the battery for a fee of less than half what he was quoted. Not saying his rant film made them change. Heck maybe it was a fake phone call as some have suggested. The 10 day old battery replacement policy announcement at macrumors suggests there wasn't a $99 battery replacement program before though. So if it was a fake call, what was the prior policy? Or is he an idiot for making a film? Oh, or an idiot for expressing his opinion rather than tucking his tale between his legs, going off to buy a battery from some website and prying his iPod open with a screwdriver to replace it himself?

Let's see, best I can find for an introduction date of the original iPod is Oct 23, 2001. Went on sale Nov 10, 2001. Assuming that's right, assuming the guy bought a first generation one and assuming he bought it the day it came out then had his battery go dead 18 months later that'd make the video 6 months old at most. If I'm wrong on that date please let me know.

Personally I think Apple's support practices within the past half year to present as relevant to a discussion of their support. Furthermore their new and improved support for out of warrenty models is to replace the battery for a mere hundred bucks. Again, seems fair to discuss and to me at least doesn't seem spectacular. Nor the practice of swapping units. This isn't warrenty at this point, you're sending your unit in for service and they're sending you back something they deem appropriate, not what you sent in for service. Condition may be better or worse and your audio files are lost, sentimentality about a device aside.

Guess we should be impressed that they do it at all! Replacing a battery? What a bizarre and unheard of thing. What's next, cell phones with replaceable batteries, camcorders, cars, alarm clocks...the possibilities are endless. And at a hundred bucks a pop I just realized how to make a few million easy. Everyone send me your alarm clocks, I'll only charge $50 to replace the batteries.

heh

Funny what an uproar it causes when someone posts about Wal-Mart not stocking Maxim, but lackluster customer support is ho-hum. Guess the conditioning is paying off. Press the back button to return to the menu. Click the X in the upper right hand corner to end this session. Press the power button located on the front of your computer if you would like to speak to an actual person.

 

[StraightPipe]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Wow... paid all that money for a quality Apple product with a nice warranty and ya get jacked around like that. What a shame. That is another reason why Apple will never ever get a penny from me.

not even a penny? i'll give em a roll of pennies. and tell them where to shove em

maybe even a roll of quarters

 

[0roo0roo]

it probaby worked on their side, its possible its your pc.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by: McCarthy

I don't know if that is an example of "lacking customer serivce" because in the thread you linked to and in same-topic threads on other boards the popular opion seems to be that the guys who made the movie are idiots and/or the movie is dated and no longer relevent.

I don't get how they're idiots. Guy calls up the support line, gets a rather disappointing answer to his problem, makes a commentary film to alert others. Now apparently Apple has changed their policy and will replace the battery for a fee of less than half what he was quoted. Not saying his rant film made them change. Heck maybe it was a fake phone call as some have suggested. The 10 day old battery replacement policy announcement at macrumors suggests there wasn't a $99 battery replacement program before though. So if it was a fake call, what was the prior policy? Or is he an idiot for making a film? Oh, or an idiot for expressing his opinion rather than tucking his tale between his legs, going off to buy a battery from some website and prying his iPod open with a screwdriver to replace it himself?

Let's see, best I can find for an introduction date of the original iPod is Oct 23, 2001. Went on sale Nov 10, 2001. Assuming that's right, assuming the guy bought a first generation one and assuming he bought it the day it came out then had his battery go dead 18 months later that'd make the video 6 months old at most. If I'm wrong on that date please let me know.

Personally I think Apple's support practices within the past half year to present as relevant to a discussion of their support. Furthermore their new and improved support for out of warrenty models is to replace the battery for a mere hundred bucks. Again, seems fair to discuss and to me at least doesn't seem spectacular. Nor the practice of swapping units. This isn't warrenty at this point, you're sending your unit in for service and they're sending you back something they deem appropriate, not what you sent in for service. Condition may be better or worse and your audio files are lost, sentimentality about a device aside.

Guess we should be impressed that they do it at all! Replacing a battery? What a bizarre and unheard of thing. What's next, cell phones with replaceable batteries, camcorders, cars, alarm clocks...the possibilities are endless. And at a hundred bucks a pop I just realized how to make a few million easy. Everyone send me your alarm clocks, I'll only charge $50 to replace the batteries.

heh

Funny what an uproar it causes when someone posts about Wal-Mart not stocking Maxim, but lackluster customer support is ho-hum. Guess the conditioning is paying off. Press the back button to return to the menu. Click the X in the upper right hand corner to end this session. Press the power button located on the front of your computer if you would like to speak to an actual person.

If your car needs repair work out of warrenty do you expect the manufacturer to do it for free? If you fry your P4 because of improper cooling and it's out of warrenty do you expect Intel to give you a new chip? These guys have an 18 month iPod w/a dead battery. I haven't heard many people complaining about 18 month old iPods w/dead batteries so either they misused their iPod and killed the battery or it's a fluke that their battery died. So to show their displeasure w/not being able to get a replacement for an out-of-warrenty product they created a nice piece of propaganda that shows them vandalizing private property w/false statements that could probably be considered libelous. I don't think they are idiots for trying to get a repair or replacement for their iPod, but I do think they are idiots for chosing such a juvenile and ill-fated way to spread there message.

There are many devices that have non-user replaceable batteries, and many more that have non-user replaceable parts. And I think it's common knowledge that any battery will lose it's ability to hold a charge over time and eventually die. So by applying a bit of deductive reasoning one will come to the conclusion that a product powered by a non-use replaceable battery will some day become a paper weight. If that prospect doesn't appeal to you then buy a product w/user replaceable batteries.


Lethal

 

[MDE]

So by applying a bit of deductive reasoning one will come to the conclusion that a product powered by a non-use replaceable battery will some day become a paper weight.

An iPod makes a damn sexy (and expensive) paperweight .

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by: MonkeyDriveExpress

So by applying a bit of deductive reasoning one will come to the conclusion that a product powered by a non-use replaceable battery will some day become a paper weight.

An iPod makes a damn sexy (and expensive) paperweight .

Hey, if you are going to get a future paperweight you might as well get the best looking future paperweight you can buy.


Lethal

 

[McCarthy]

AmdInside - Didn't say, are you sure you got the same iPod back? Did it take 7GB transfers before a month ago or you just started transferring that many then? After talking to them again are you sending it back in for more service or...? What disk error did you get? Always do it with the same mp3 set or different sets...wondering about a corrupt mp3 as unlikely as it may be. Strangely enough after looking at iPods during participation in these threads I'm tempted to buy one and am even more curious what the error is you're getting. mp3-CD's turning out to be more trouble than it's worth for me. If it's a bad HD you have that sucks, but if they exchanged and you got a different one back it wouldn't explain the problem short of incredibly bad luck.

Though I'd buy a used one, not just because their support sounds like a pain, but because when I see 'no user serviceable parts' that's my cue to open it up and look inside

If your car needs repair work out of warrenty do you expect the manufacturer to do it for free?

Cars really are nice examples. When the battery dies in a car you have it replaced. Does any manufacturer tell you to send your car in for a 'refurb' at over half the car's replacement value to have the battery replaced? No, you go to the dealer and they put in a battery. Think Pep Boys puts batteries in for free, not sure what dealers charge. Car battery isn't any big deal, but it's more labor intensive than an iPod and I'd feel well and truely ripped off to be charged $50 to put in a car battery. Which is what Apple is essentially charging to put in an iPod battery when the battery is available for $50 elsewhere as was pointed out in the OT thread.

And this is the new and improved program.

As for the vandalism, you're right. We can agree on destruction of property, even tacky advertising poster property. Still don't see how he's an idiot aside from that though, and his propoganda was fitting considering Apple's previous policy. As for libel, I don't see it. There's no reckless disregard for accuracy. As you said it's common knowledge a battery will die at some point. His experience suggested it was around 18 months. Unless he had contrary information he would have no reason to expect 18 months to be abnormal, therefore it wouldn't rise to the standard of libel as I understand it.

Curiously Apple now has a battery replacement program started almost 2 years to the day after the first iPod was available for sale. So, for whatever reason - video propoganda, phoned in complaints, combination of both or purely preemptive support - they've recognized after 24 such a program should be offered. Only 25% off the misused/fluke period suggested. Won't help their libel case any.

I'm trying to think of any devices I've had with batteries that could not be replaced (read: manufacturer doesn't intend you to replace them). About the only thing that comes to mind are motherboards with soldered on batteries instead of socketed, and even then many had leads to hook up an aftermarket battery. Lots of devices have "non user servicable parts", but even a shady TV repairman would cringe charging someone $255 to replace a component that didn't even require soldering or a service call. $50 part, $50 bench time, 2 min job, still high, but sounds more in line with TV repairmen.

Thing is if I could think of more devices then maybe I (or by extension the idiot) might reasonably expect it to become a paperweight. I'm drawing a blank though, even disposable watches have button batteries that can be replaced by the user. Maybe I'm dense or have unrealistic expectations, but the iPod seems to be a product meant for at least as long a life as a vending machine digital watch, surely costs a lot more and looks to be engineered to higher tolerances all around. Heck of a thing for Apple to expect their customers to accept them as paperweights (or charge 255+mailing fee) over a dead battery. About as idiotic as the video maker, eh?

 

[LethalWolfe]

The car example wasn't about car batteries because those are easily user replaceable unlike the iPods battery. Would you get out of warrenty power train work done for free?

And I said possible libel because they are stating, very publicly, that iPod batteries completely die in 18 months. There was no "in my experience" or "YMMV" there was just "iPod batteries die in 18 months" period. Did they come to this conclusion thru testing and research or is this just their personal experience w/their own iPod? The 18 month dead line (bad pun intended) does not seem to be the norm and many people, including original iPod owners who still have lots of battery life, are spectulating that these guys killed thier battery thru misuse. They seem to be trying to pass-off their experiences w/one possible lemon, possibly user abused iPod as fact in regards to the lifespan of all iPods. That's why I said it's possible libel.

Like I said before, I don't think they are idiots because of the message they are presenting, I think they are idiots for how they are presenting the message.

Many PDA's use non-replacealbe Lithium-Ion batteries. And as more and more, small HDD based players enter the market I'm sure they will too. I'm pretty sure the Dell DJ does. Speaking of Dell, if your DJ has a problem and you send it in for repair you will most likely get a new or refurb unit back, not the same DJ you sent in.


Lethal

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: MonkeyDriveExpress
This makes me want to reconsider salivating over an iPod and get a Nomad Zen NX instead... decisions, decisions...

My 30 GB Zen NX is awesome... EAX is sweet. File transfers are faster than hell... averaged about 5-5.5 MB/s on USB 2.0... interface is really easy to use... and it's really not THAT much bigger than the iPod... if it was any smaller it would be hard to hold onto.

*EDIT*

And the fact that I have all 180 of my CD's on it encoded at 192 kbps and it's just a little over half full is a plus

 

[McCarthy]

I never said they should replace the battery for free, only place I mentioned free was about car battery installation from a place that's trying to create good will with it's consumers through service. A charge for the battery (bad puns are contagious ) replacement is to be expected once it's out of it's warrenty period. A reasonable price would be good customer service. On a $50 battery replacement a $255 charge is extremely poor customer service, $99 is lackluster, but getting closer. Of course that's just my view of the fee/rating relationship.

We're just never going to agree on the video I suspect. I thought it was cleverly done, the vandalism was inappropriate, the 18 month deadline a necessary message vehicle. "iPod's unreplaceable battery eventually quits holding a charge" wouldn't have made much impact, would it? "My iPod's battery died in 18 months" much the same. If I'd walked down that street (or saw the video) I'd be thinking "oh really, never thought about it not being something I could replace. Wonder how long I could use an iPod before mine died" and look into it before buying one, or send Apple an email asking why they don't have a simple battery replacement program. Personally I never imagined the battery wouldn't be user replaceable, see it does say "built in" in the specifications fine print though now that I've looked.

How do you misuse a battery anyway? It is a portable device, some vibration and shock is to be expected. Using it for hours per day wouldn't be misuse, would it? KraziKid pointed out in the other thread the battery is rated for 500 charge/discharge cycles (don't know his source), well 18 months is 547 days. Have it plugged into your stereo in your studio where you make propoganda videos and listen to mp3s instead of the radio and you're right on schedule for the battery to be shot even if the unit was never jogged with or dropped once. That's surely not misuse, is it?

 

[Jeff7181]

How do you misuse a battery anyway?

I'd say running it down until it doesn't have enough juice to even power on the unit would be misuse.

 

[McCarthy]

I'd say running it down until it doesn't have enough juice to even power on the unit would be misuse.

Where did you read that is misuse of a lithium ion battery? Might be, but I'm not able to find it.

Looked for tips on care and feeding of LiOn rechargables. Found sites that talked about NiCad, NiMh and LiOn, most said to excersize (drain) NiCads and even NiMh, but no advice was given for LiOn. Just said they don't suffer from memory effect which NiCads were famous for and NiMh suffers from a little. None said not to run any of them down to that degree, in fact it's advised for the older types. Only rechargable style I've run across that suffers from being drained fully, other than lead acid, are Rayovac Renewals which won't recharge for me if run completely dead. Great for remotes, suck for clocks.

Also found this new tidbit while verifying what type of battery the iPod uses. Complimentary In-Warranty Repair Service : Repair service is free if covered by Apple's One-Year Limited Warranty : A shipping and handling fee of $29.95 USD will be charged for all iPod repairs performed after the first six months of the warranty. Nice fee, support just gets friendlier and friendlier.

Btw if you enter 'ipod battery' in google the first and last listing (assuming you have 10 results per page like I do) are about ipod batteries giving up the ghost over time. First one from Dec 2002, 13 months from iPod introduction, says "but a lot of owners are discovering that they don't love how quickly the battery's life dwindles, from ten or eleven hours on purchase, to as little as a couple of hours after a year of use" The other from this last Sept, which would be a max of 22 months, states in an article about DIY battery replacement "My first generation iPod had lost it's juice. The battery wouldn't last more than 30 minutes". Lot of those flukes and misusers around. Common enough for Laptops for Less to register ipodbattery.com anyway.

Like I said before, I'd open one up. Actually gonna look for a used one with a dying battery and replace it myself if I can find one cheap. Don't like seeing customer service where people are getting ripped, that's why I posted in the first thread, now I'm trying to grasp insight into why others are seeming to say the previous and newly started support programs for simple battery replacements are just fine.