Rant about the status of consoles

[cmdrdredd]

Consoles have regressed in that regard. On the original Xbox, the music stored on the HDD was integrated into the game. For example, in GTA San Andreas, I had a radio station dedicated to my music and it was amazing. The Xbox 360 (and future consoles) screwed this up, but separating it outside the game into a "blare it over everything" method, which is terrible.

Yeah I played GTA4 on PC and could put my music into a custom radio station. Even commercials were added in between for fun.

 

[Ichinisan]

Yeah I played GTA4 on PC and could put my music into a custom radio station. Even commercials were added in between for fun.

Immersion breaks when it gets to my uncensored Lords of Acid albums.

 

[nickbits]

Adjusted for inflation it was probably close.

$200 in 1991 is about $347 today.

 

[yankeeDDL]

I wrote a short post because I didn't need to write a novel to get my point across (for once).

You didn't do the correct research. You bought a console, then you complained about things that you could have looked up before (like if Xbox 360 users can play with Xbox One/PC users).

The truth hurts though.

I did not buy any console. I researched first and reached that conclusion that for me, it makes no sense. Now that I also understand how console work, I am also quite surprised of how successful they are.
Like I said: you should read before judge.

 

[yankeeDDL]

Why does everyone always jump onboard of these troll-threads, started by first-time posters? This stuff has all been discussed before ad nauseum.

If you want backwards compatible, keep your old console or get a PC. If not, sell all the old gear and buy the latest!

Has it occurred to you that someone might, genuinely, be for the first time researching about consoles and, shocked by the findings, might want to share them with somebody more "seasoned" and expert on the subject?
Does this make me a troll? Seriously?

I have, in fact, learned a great deal and aside from short posts which are just made to offend, there's quite a lot of good info, and very reasonable points and opinions.
You may want to read though this topic: you may learn something too. If not about consoles, about how to help someone.

 

[yankeeDDL]

Your example of a decent gaming PC for $588 is missing one important factor. You need to build the computer yourself. Sure, YOU may know how to do it, but not everyone does. So factor in a professional installation of the PC, testing, and burning it in, and that could be another $50-200. PS4 and XB1 come prebuilt and ready to use out of the box.

Good point: although I'd lean more towards the $50, there are certainly less technical people who would spend more, or just buy a "gaming PC" pre-assembled, and pay an arm and a leg for it.

And as someone else stated: the consoles only need to be plugged in and "just work".

 

[smackababy]

Immersion breaks when it gets to my uncensored Lords of Acid albums.

Breaks it more than music blaring over everything, including places where music is detrimental to what is going on (cutscenes...)?

 

[artemicion]

Has it occurred to you that someone might, genuinely, be for the first time researching about consoles and, shocked by the findings, might want to share them with somebody more "seasoned" and expert on the subject?
Does this make me a troll? Seriously?

I have, in fact, learned a great deal and aside from short posts which are just made to offend, there's quite a lot of good info, and very reasonable points and opinions.
You may want to read though this topic: you may learn something too. If not about consoles, about how to help someone.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you're a newbie when it comes to this kind of thing, but allow me to try to educate you on why people here think this is a troll thread.

You came into the consoles subforum to post about why you think console gaming sucks. If I went into the PC gaming subforum to post why I think PC gaming sucks, it'd be a troll thread. If I went into the Apple subforum to post why I think Apple sucks, it'd be a troll thread. If I went into the automobile subforum to post why I think car culture sucks, it'd be a troll thread.

It's like you walked into our club, took a dump on the floor, then stuck around to see what our reaction would be.

The inference from your OP is that you believe we console gamers are buying into a "pure marketing stunt" and we must be "teenagers with parents with a too-fat wallet" and we must suffer from "fundamental ignorance." Awesome. Thanks for stopping by, guy.

 

[BoberFett]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you're a newbie when it comes to this kind of thing, but allow me to try to educate you on why people here think this is a troll thread.

You came into the consoles subforum to post about why you think console gaming sucks. If I went into the PC gaming subforum to post why I think PC gaming sucks, it'd be a troll thread. If I went into the Apple subforum to post why I think Apple sucks, it'd be a troll thread. If I went into the automobile subforum to post why I think car culture sucks, it'd be a troll thread.

It's like you walked into our club, took a dump on the floor, then stuck around to see what our reaction would be.

The inference from your OP is that you believe we console gamers are buying into a "pure marketing stunt" and we must be "teenagers with parents with a too-fat wallet" and we must suffer from "fundamental ignorance." Awesome. Thanks for stopping by, guy.

Pretty much.

 

[yankeeDDL]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you're a newbie when it comes to this kind of thing, but allow me to try to educate you on why people here think this is a troll thread.

You came into the consoles subforum to post about why you think console gaming sucks. If I went into the PC gaming subforum to post why I think PC gaming sucks, it'd be a troll thread. If I went into the Apple subforum to post why I think Apple sucks, it'd be a troll thread. If I went into the automobile subforum to post why I think car culture sucks, it'd be a troll thread.

It's like you walked into our club, took a dump on the floor, then stuck around to see what our reaction would be.

The inference from your OP is that you believe we console gamers are buying into a "pure marketing stunt" and we must be "teenagers with parents with a too-fat wallet" and we must suffer from "fundamental ignorance." Awesome. Thanks for stopping by, guy.

I see your point. Allow me to share mine, for what is worth.
I came here because in my experience the average AnandTech reader is informed and rather knowledgeable (mind you: on average) and considering myself likewise (although not in consoles, obviously) I thought I'd find out "what am I missing".
And, I think I did. The goods of backward compatibility are not a "universal truth", and I read some agreeable opinion to the contrary.
I remain the opinion that playing at 720p vs 1080p makes a big difference, but it is not comparable to, say, the jump between Commodore 64 and Amiga.
Xbox 360 games look, frankly, quite good for a 9 year old console. I have no doubt that Xb1 looks better, especially on large TVs. I guess if someone has own an Xbox 360 for 9 years, may welcome a change, but somebody who has had it for only 1 or two years and is still appreciating the novelty, should he really fork the money to upgrade?
And someone in my position, casual gamer, with a young kid, which is basically "forced" into the Xbox 360 (in order to share online games with family), should "invest" in such platform?
Again, good points were made in those respects: the investment in Xbox 360 is not very high, as there's a wide used market, something I had not considered.
And the 360 is not really at EoL. Given the huge install base, most of which, likely won't update to the XB1 (at least not immediately), development will continue on the 360 for, realistically, a few more years. Something else I had not thought of.

In the end, I think I just choose the worse possible time to look into consoles. Chances are, the XB2 and PS5 will stay on x86 and might well be backward compatible.
In fact, making more powerful version of the XB1 and PS4 will be quite easy now that they're on X86. Of course, I'm speculating.

Anyway, long story short: this is the "Console" forum, not "Console fanboy" forum. And most of the answers proved it. I can take some fair criticism, but most of the negative posts were plain hate: didn't even read my OP.

Cheers.

 

[BoberFett]

Nobody posted hate. They may have mocked what they saw as an ignorant opinion, but you seem to equate disagreement with hate.

Get over yourself.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Heh I doubt the next consoles will play current ones games. Why? The OS will be different. Even if they are x86

 

[Lil Frier]

Heh I doubt the next consoles will play current ones games. Why? The OS will be different. Even if they are x86

Well, heck, those consoles might be another 5+ years away, and it could very well end up that ARM becomes powerful enough to make it a viable alternative, meaning the next consoles could run ARM stuff. Then, after that, it could be quantum-based, for all we know.

Basically, going into the start of a generation that's likely to be closer to 10 years than 3, and saying, "I'll just wait for the next thing," is just silly. Besides, why would someone wait for the next Xbox or PlayStation to play the current library of games? It's like building a high-end gaming PC just to play 5-year-old games.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Well, heck, those consoles might be another 5+ years away, and it could very well end up that ARM becomes powerful enough to make it a viable alternative, meaning the next consoles could run ARM stuff. Then, after that, it could be quantum-based, for all we know.

Basically, going into the start of a generation that's likely to be closer to 10 years than 3, and saying, "I'll just wait for the next thing," is just silly. Besides, why would someone wait for the next Xbox or PlayStation to play the current library of games? It's like building a high-end gaming PC just to play 5-year-old games.

That's true too but I was thinking if they kept x86 the OS would definitely be different. Windows 10.1 based Xbox or whatever is out by then and a new OS for the PS5 for sure. Shoot for all we know someone could have an SoC that has the power of a Intel i5 CPU and a Maxwell GPU all in one by that point which like you said, might be the solution they choose.

 

[KentState]

That's true too but I was thinking if they kept x86 the OS would definitely be different. Windows 10.1 based Xbox or whatever is out by then and a new OS for the PS5 for sure. Shoot for all we know someone could have an SoC that has the power of a Intel i5 CPU and a Maxwell GPU all in one by that point which like you said, might be the solution they choose.

Much easier to run a virtual OS if they stay with x86 and give us backward capability. I thought that the current XB1 operated in the same manor. The OS is not running on the bare metal.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Much easier to run a virtual OS if they stay with x86 and give us backward capability. I thought that the current XB1 operated in the same manor. The OS is not running on the bare metal.

That would be super slow I'd think compared to being native. I dunno but I doubt they would bother.

 

[Lil Frier]

That's true too but I was thinking if they kept x86 the OS would definitely be different. Windows 10.1 based Xbox or whatever is out by then and a new OS for the PS5 for sure. Shoot for all we know someone could have an SoC that has the power of a Intel i5 CPU and a Maxwell GPU all in one by that point which like you said, might be the solution they choose.

Well, I would just expect that as Microsoft continues this push to a common experience across all of its products, that will lead to a long-term Xbox experience that might not be architecturally backwards-compatible, but might be functionally similar. The Windows 10 push should bring more commonality with x86 Windows, ARM Windows, and the Xbox One OS. If they hold on to all of these products through to the next gaming generation, then I would expect that the next Xbox will have an OS functionally similar to that of the Xbox One's final OS update. so as to keep the Microsoft experience consistent. That is, unless they ditch the Xbox One OS and have a full-on PC console experience.

I'm still hoping that this upcoming news conference on 1/21 announces that they're going to start regularly bringing Xbox exclusives to PCs (either through Steam or--the solution I'd expect--the Microsoft Store). Of course, that positive announcement could get punched in the face by the PC gamer-angering announcement that those games would all run on LIVE, and that you would need to get a Gold sub to play them on PC.

Then there's the Holy Grail, where they could offer a cross-platform license to users. I'd love them to just start porting Xbox One games to PC, through the Windows Games Hub, and let all who own digital copies of games run them on their PCs. It's a 0% chance they would make Windows 10 read Xbox One discs, but that would just be the craziest thing on the planet, and it'd make my head explode.

 

[Aikouka]

Heh I doubt the next consoles will play current ones games. Why? The OS will be different. Even if they are x86

Honestly, I wouldn't be worried about the OS in regard to backwards compatibility. At worst, as long as the hardware is similar enough, you could pull a Nintendo and literally boot the old software (Wii U's Wii Mode). The biggest thing on my mind is... the GPU. CPUs have been using the same basic ISA for decades. For CPUs, they merely get extensions -- some smaller like SSE and some larger like AMD64 (x86-64). GPUs don't work that way. With each major chip change usually comes a brand new architecture with its own design.

What's also important are the APIs. Microsoft most likely has a huge leg-up in this with DirectX, but I don't know how it will affect Sony. Keep in mind that on a PC we use things to help abstract aspects that make things different. The biggest thing is that PCs use drivers that translate the graphics calls to the GPU's "language". Given that consoles are a static entity, I highly doubt that they use drivers. That would suggest that even with a good library, you may still need a recompiled binary that speaks the "language" of the new machine's graphics architecture (and possibly CPU if they don't stick with x86).

 

[KentState]

That would be super slow I'd think compared to being native. I dunno but I doubt they would bother.

Actually, they do run the OS's in a hypervisor on the XB1.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_One

Xbox One runs two operating systems within a hypervisor; games run within one operating system, while apps and the user interface run within a stripped-down variant of Windows 8.

 

[calyco]

Consoles have regressed in that regard. On the original Xbox, the music stored on the HDD was integrated into the game. For example, in GTA San Andreas, I had a radio station dedicated to my music and it was amazing. The Xbox 360 (and future consoles) screwed this up, but separating it outside the game into a "blare it over everything" method, which is terrible.

I remember doing that on a PC with music folder, like someone else mentioned.

It's more like I like the new PS button. Press to go home, then back to game instantaneous. Hold to adjust headphone volume and MP3 playback etc. Lots of other stuff regressed as well like no DLNA but then again I really only use Youtube and Netflix nowadays. All the specs on paper made me not want to buy a console. But I was pleasantly surprised how well everything worked once I got the PS4 in hand.

 

[Blanky]

Let's be clear about BC. Most people wouldn't mind it, but most people don't care that much. That's why it's not focused on, it's why the PS3 which was built with it ended up producing most models without it. People don't care that much.

 

[HeXen]

Let's be clear about BC. Most people wouldn't mind it, but most people don't care that much. That's why it's not focused on, it's why the PS3 which was built with it ended up producing most models without it. People don't care that much.

I agree except they do care only when the console is new and games are still being made for the previous gen.

There is certainly a different public perception about consoles than most any other electronics device. For example, people think of Tablets and sometimes even audio gear as being throwaways, always willing and wanting to spend hundreds for an updated model within a couple of years and buy digital apps at full retail.
Update a console in 2 years or have it all digital without used physicals and people literally go apeshit about the very idea. I still don't see why marketing a console like they do with smartphones or tablets is a bad idea...buy a 2yr PSplus or Xboxlive plan and get the hardware for xx amount or $0 down and able to upgrade to the newest, yet backwards compatable model after your lease is up.

I mean a $750 Note 4 smartphone is like 0 down and $31 a month for 2yrs...why couldn't a similar model apply to consoles that get updated each year using the same architecture? You have pay for online gaming anyway, just appropriate the prices to where they basically make the cost of hardware back, gamers are leasing but yet get a new model every 2 years, give them an option to buy out if they wish...but this very idea appears to be a major blow to the traditional ideas of what a console is and everyone here will think it's stupid or whatever...but I don't get how it's worse than 5-10 yr lifespan out of already outdated hardware specs.