Rant about college students who...

[RampantAndroid]

Yes, and more and more we get ignorant fucks complaining about 'I don't want to take basic arithmetic for my English degree', or the ever popular business major with another chorus of 'me dont' no y i has to learn english to rule a companies'. Again, I was supporting the basic purpose and methods of universities which are being argued against by OTHERS, not me.

If high school cannot teach people proper english, why the hell bother trying in college?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

If high school cannot teach people proper english, why the hell bother trying in college?

Because high school at fault for his 0.13 high school GPA. It's impossible to know learn how to think without Sociology 101.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

If high school cannot teach people proper english, why the hell bother trying in college?

Well, excuse me for fucking off in HS!
I did learn to write correct English in college and got A's and B's. Although, I didn't learn much grammar until I took German.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Well, excuse me for fucking off in HS!
I did learn to write correct English in college and got A's and B's. Although, I didn't learn much grammar until I took German.

And to me, this is a problem. Colleges shouldn't have to assume people dicked around in HS. My grammar did not improve any in college. I was told I used too many commas and such, but at the same time it made the paper I wrote more interesting so nothing was done. I already knew grammar well enough from HS and before. I had already read plenty of good books: The Stranger, The Trial, Candide...etc etc. What I read in college in no way measured up to what I had already read. As such, the english course I was forced to take did not in any way help me, it hurt me, taking time away from studying for physics 2 or something better. College was hell for me, and rarely was there a class I ENJOYED. There were some, and they were the 400 level classes with 7 people in them or less...with the exception of art. I enjoyed art...

My point is...the classes should be there to take, but less bullshit should be forced on you. Moreover, profs forcing you to listen to their political views should be fired on the spot, regardless of tenure. I'm not in college to be brainwashed or browbeaten, which is exactly what the polit-sci department was all about.

I'm no better off because I took that Judaism class, other than perhaps that I read Gilgamesh...the other 9/10s of the semester were pointless. I'd taken a US Gov't class in HS already...so taking it in college again served no purpose. I mean, at least you can argue the database courses I took ONE day MIGHT come in handy...but that's it.

My overall point is: give me freedom to pick things interesting, informative and challenging. Don't shove drivel down my throat, or I'll do the least amount possible to pass, graduate and keep my scholarships. College should NOT be an assembly line. One size DOES NOT fit all.

 

[gaidensensei]

Most people who write incoherently have some kind of mental problem though, that is why they can't write legibly.

cue for ie: my englas ok u c dis thread u kno ?? im english strong power me ! hrhrhrr

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

My overall point is: give me freedom to pick things interesting, informative and challenging. Don't shove drivel down my throat, or I'll do the least amount possible to pass, graduate and keep my scholarships. College should NOT be an assembly line. One size DOES NOT fit all.

In general, I agree. However, a significant number of college students are in college only because society and everyone in their family has always told them that they HAVE to go to college, if they wish to be successful.

Not all but, the majority of colleges in the U.S. view education as a byproduct of their primary goal which is research, publishing and, grant writing.

College did give me a wider perspective so, in that instance, they were successful. Although I could argue anyone with a modicum of intelligence and a desire to learn would learn to expand their horizons without the guidance of "higher education." In terms of reading, I too had surpassed what passed for college reading lists before ever entering.

 

[RampantAndroid]

In general, I agree. However, a significant number of college students are in college only because society and everyone in their family has always told them that they HAVE to go to college, if they wish to be successful.

Exactly, and hence my earlier comment that I wish the US would move to the german system. If you just want to do IT work, you go to a trade school. People going into research who have the grades to do so go to university, and so forth.

 

[JCH13]

As for engineering degrees...sure, internships don't do it all...but how much of your degree do you use? I changed to Comp Sci, and took plenty of theory classes for programming...I don't use one bit of it. I took database classes (required) and don't use that either. I took compiler design - and while interesting, it's also useless to me at my current job. I never see assembly. Sure, I understand a CPU much better now, but that really doesn't add too much. On the flip side, I do a lot of problem solving, and college didn't teach my anything there. I do things by trial and error more often than not. I learn that way, but I'm learning on my own.

For you CE or EE majors - how often do you need to find the thevenin resistance of a resistor network? So much theory that is taught really doesn't matter unless you pursue a masters or PHD, or go into research.

That's unfortunate that your liberal arts classes sucked so hard. About half of mine did, the other half were pretty awesome through either a good professor or a good subject. One class was even called 'history of technology.'

I use a lot of my general education classes, even basic circuit design (I'm a Mechanical Engineer). I found that my college taught me to teach myself, very few things were just handed to me, so I had to teach myself. Especially in design classes where the class material couldn't possibly cover what everyone did in their projects. I also do use the basic theory I learned very frequently at my job. Maybe that's just because my job is so widely varied, but I have used what I learned from every single class I took in college and even some classes I didn't take (digital signal processing, for one, and object oriented programming, for another). Even the piddly freshmen design class I took was useful for patent searching and light-duty economics.

 

[GotIssues]

General Education requirements are there to prod you into broadening your scope of knowledge. If you chose to take "easy A" classes or classes you already know everything for, it's your fault for taking that avenue, you have no right to piss and moan about it.

The point of education outside your chosen major to broadening your way of thinking. Siloing yourself into your chosen major and nothing more merely creates a inbreeding of ideas - it stifles innovation and creativity. It's not necessarily the knowledge you obtain in the GenEd classes, it's the perspective and exposure to different ways of approaching problems. If you merely need to "perform X when Y happens" trade school is fantastic. But if you need new and innovate ideas to solve problems, GenEd course provide an invaluable education (except many English courses, those are so you don't look like a dumbass when you speak and write).

The point of theory classes that you will "never use" is to deepend your understanding of your chosen field. You actually end up using them a lot more than you think. Example is the compiler writing class you speak of. Sure, you aren't going to be writing compilers anytime soon, but knowing exactly how and why they function often steer you to slight alterations in the code you're writing, and it will help troubleshoot any errors in what you have written.

The benefits of these classes aren't the direct knowledge they give you, but the understanding and the different viewpoints and way of thinking that it gives you. Too many people come to the conclusion "if it doesn't directly benefit me, it obviously doesn't benefit me at all" - which is just plain ignorant.

 

[shortylickens]

You MORONS!
Hamburger boy is trolling.

 

[Dumac]

I don't think participation should be something required.

If I am engaged in a class, I will participate. If I do not understand subject matter or if the class discussion is a bridge point to other topics, I will ask questions.

However, I hate hate HATE when a class at the university level makes participation part of the grade.

Last semester, I took an engineering class were participation was 10% of the grade. With participation being such a high percentage of the grade, all that happened was that the social kids would raise their hands and mark unrelated, and mostly uninteresting comments or suggestions. These would then cause the teacher to go on unrelated tangents about he was in a movie or whatnot, causing me to learn less material overall. Meanwhile, I was fed up with these loudmouths and the teacher for encouraging them, and I refused to participate in such a joke of a class.

Thank god the material was understandable on its own, outside of class. I stopped going to lecture half the time - why even bother wasting an hour of my day to hear about some unrelated tidbit of a student's or the professor's life? Needless to say, since I missed a lot of classes, and when I didn't miss class, I still didn't speak, I got only 2 out of 10% for participation (which is the grade you get if the professor knows you showed up to class at least a few times).

The cutoff for an A was 90%, and I already missed out on 8%. But the good news was that I understood the material. I got a 100% on the first midterm (average was 60%), which was much higher than any of the "participators", and near that on the final.

So in the end, I still got an A, but I think the mandatory participation not only ruined the chance of any real class discussion, but it also forced you to participate, unless you were one of the highest scoring students.

EDIT: This isn't to say discussion is bad. I love class discussions - however I think they only work in small classes (30 students or less). In big classes, discussion is basically useless, as a few loudmouthed students dominate the floor and repeat their ideas over and over and over.

 

[Whisper]

I don't think participation should be something required.

If I am engaged in a class, I will participate. If I do not understand subject matter or if the class discussion is a bridge point to other topics, I will ask questions.

However, I hate hate HATE when a class at the university level makes participation part of the grade.

Last semester, I took an engineering class were participation was 10% of the grade. With participation being such a high percentage of the grade, all that happened was that the social kids would raise their hands and mark unrelated, and mostly uninteresting comments or suggestions. These would then cause the teacher to go on unrelated tangents about he was in a movie or whatnot, causing me to learn less material overall. Meanwhile, I was fed up with these loudmouths and the teacher for encouraging them, and I refused to participate in such a joke of a class.

Thank god the material was understandable on its own, outside of class. I stopped going to lecture half the time - why even bother wasting an hour of my day to hear about some unrelated tidbit of a student's or the professor's life? Needless to say, since I missed a lot of classes, and when I didn't miss class, I still didn't speak, I got only 2 out of 10% for participation (which is the grade you get if the professor knows you showed up to class at least a few times).

The cutoff for an A was 90%, and I already missed out on 8%. But the good news was that I understood the material. I got a 100% on the first midterm (average was 60%), which was much higher than any of the "participators", and near that on the final.

So in the end, I still got an A, but I think the mandatory participation not only ruined the chance of any real class discussion, but it also forced you to participate, unless you were one of the highest scoring students.

EDIT: This isn't to say discussion is bad. I love class discussions - however I think they only work in small classes (30 students or less). In big classes, discussion is basically useless, as a few loudmouthed students dominate the floor and repeat their ideas over and over and over.

I'll say that in some cases, "participation" is essentially the instructor's way of giving/assigning points for attendance when the university doesn't explicitly allow for an actual attendance-related grade.

 

[Dumac]

I'll say that in some cases, "participation" is essentially the instructor's way of giving/assigning points for attendance when the university doesn't explicitly allow for an actual attendance-related grade.

Yeah, I've had classes like that. Attendance under the guise of participation.

This class wasn't like that though. I had a friend who went every day (he goes to every lecture always, which I suppose is what every student should do) and he got the same grade as me (2 out of 10) for participation, since that is as far as you get for just attending and he never talked in class.

 

[GotIssues]

Thank god the material was understandable on its own, outside of class. I stopped going to lecture half the time - why even bother wasting an hour of my day to hear about some unrelated tidbit of a student's or the professor's life? Needless to say, since I missed a lot of classes, and when I didn't miss class, I still didn't speak, I got only 2 out of 10% for participation (which is the grade you get if the professor knows you showed up to class at least a few times).

So it's someone else's fault you skipped class?

You CHOSE to not go to class. You got docked for it. You knew the expectations in advance and made your decisions. Grow up and live with the consequences.

If you had not been a crybaby about it, you could have contributed to the class and had the professor discussing something interesting and worthwhile. Instead, you let someone else dictate the flow of the discussion while you pouted in the corner. Had your testicle descended, you could have raised your hand, asked an intelligent, thought provoking question, and gotten something from the lecture.

God, I'm not even that far out of college, but the difference between how myself and those around me were raised are in different worlds. We were taught "Don't complain about what you can fix," while the new wave is taught "Everything is someone else's fault." Now we have a generation of whiney little bitches on our hands.

 

[Dumac]

So it's someone else's fault you skipped class?

You CHOSE to not go to class. You got docked for it. You knew the expectations in advance and made your decisions. Grow up and live with the consequences.

Huh? I got the minimum grade for attendence (2&#37. I didn't get docked for not going to class. The other 8% is scaled by the number of times you speak during the semester.

If anything, I was rewarded for it by getting better grades when I used that time to actual learn something

I did live with the consequences. Not going to class was a thought over and well-informed decision.

If you had not been a crybaby about it, you could have contributed to the class and had the professor discussing something interesting and worthwhile. Instead, you let someone else dictate the flow of the discussion while you pouted in the corner. Had your testicle descended, you could have raised your hand, asked an intelligent, thought provoking question, and gotten something from the lecture.

I tried that a couple times, but my question was just overridden by some other guy who asked something like "but what if this is all just my imagination?" or "what did you do last weekend, professor?".

Not to mention, I didn't really have many questions. The material was self-explanatory.

God, I'm not even that far out of college, but the difference between how myself and those around me were raised are in different worlds. We were taught "Don't complain about what you can fix," while the new wave is taught "Everything is someone else's fault." Now we have a generation of whiney little bitches on our hands.

Somebody thinks a lot of themself

I found a better use of my time than trying to change the very core personalities of a group of students or the grading schema of a course. Like I said, I got an A, so I'm not hurting here.

 

[JCH13]

God, I'm not even that far out of college, but the difference between how myself and those around me were raised are in different worlds. We were taught "Don't complain about what you can fix," while the new wave is taught "Everything is someone else's fault." Now we have a generation of whiney little bitches on our hands.

I like this. I like to combine it with "don't complain about what you can't fix, because it doesn't matter."

 

[Dumac]

I like this. I like to combine it with "don't complain about what you can't fix, because it doesn't matter."

You must not do a lot of complaining

 

[JCH13]

You must not do a lot of complaining

I try not to anyway :awe:

 

[GotIssues]

Huh? I got the minimum grade for attendence (2&#37. I didn't get docked for not going to class. The other 8% is scaled by the number of times you speak during the semester.

Sorry, my mistake, you were bitching about participation, not attendence.

If anything, I was rewarded for it by getting better grades when I used that time to actual learn something

Needing what essentially amounted to a 97.8% (90/92) to get an A instead of a 90% is not a reward. It was a trade-off. You got more free-time in return for a higher bar for an A.

I did live with the consequences. Not going to class was a thought over and well-informed decision.

You sure think highly of yourself. Especially since you were complaining about it from the start. You aren't living with the consequences, you had the consequences and subsequently started bitching over them.

I tried that a couple times, but my question was just overridden by some other guy who asked something like "but what if this is all just my imagination?" or "what did you do last weekend, professor?".

I'll have to agree with this respect. I HATE people that missed a lecture and spend lecture time to ask the professor what he covered while they were gone. When I was in Grad school, we had a person come in 10 minutes late to EVERY lecture, walk through the front of the class (so we knew she was there), sit down, and raise her hand to ask what she missed. After the 3rd or 4th time, the professor said "You wouldn't have to ask that if you showed up on time. If you want to talk about what was covered in classes that you missed, please come to office hours." So I can sympathize with that.

However, being annoyed with someone else's stupid questions doesn't mean you get sympathy or a free pass on your cry-fest about getting 2/10 in participation.

Not to mention, I didn't really have many questions. The material was self-explanatory.

I completely think differently than you, then. Because when I had classes like that, I tended to push deeper into the subjects until I didn't understand it, regardless of what the class taught.

Somebody thinks a lot of themself

I also look like a fantastic basketball player if I got compared to the average 8 year old.

I found a better use of my time than trying to change the very core personalities of a group of students or the grading schema of a course. Like I said, I got an A, so I'm not hurting here.

Oh, so it was a "look how awesome I am" post and not a bitchfest about participation. Gotcha.

 

[Dumac]

Sorry, my mistake, you were bitching about participation, not attendence.

Yup

Needing what essentially amounted to a 97.8% (90/92) to get an A instead of a 90% is not a reward. It was a trade-off. You got more free-time in return for a higher bar for an A.

Yes, it was a trade off, but I still think it paid off in the long run.

You sure think highly of yourself.

Come up with your own lines

Especially since you were complaining about it from the start. You aren't living with the consequences, you had the consequences and subsequently started bitching over them.

No.

I was bitching about one thing - required participation. It ruined the class, as people who normally wouldn't participate talked all class long to ensure they got their 10%. This wasn't a consequence to anything. I couldn't chang this fact, and it was decided before I ever entered the classroom.

I then decided that class was not worth my time, and then I knew that the consequence would be that I would have to score well to get an A. And I lived with the consequence by doing just that.

However, being annoyed with someone else's stupid questions doesn't mean you get sympathy or a free pass on your cry-fest about getting 2/10 in participation.

The 2/10 doesn't bother me - I chose to get that by not "participating". What bothers me is that the class was a waste.

I completely think differently than you, then. Because when I had classes like that, I tended to push deeper into the subjects until I didn't understand it, regardless of what the class taught.

Couldn't be done, as the "participators" hogged up the whole class anyway, and he couldn't advance further, as the "participators" didn't even get the basic material.

I also look like a fantastic basketball player if I got compared to the average 8 year old.

Keep jerking off; I'm sure it feels nice

Oh, so it was a "look how awesome I am" post and not a bitchfest about participation. Gotcha.

No, I just have to point out that I didn't get a bad grade, otherwise you would have just replied "Oh you are just whining because you got a bad grade" when that isn't the case.

But you are going to be mad no matter what, as long as it makes you feel better about yourself

 

[GotIssues]

Yup

Boy, it makes a world of difference!

Yes, it was a trade off, but I still think it paid off in the long run.

I doubt it paid off in the long run, unless you did some amazingly fantastic things in that extra hour, which at college, seems very unlikely. It paid off in the short run without any negative consequences in the long run.

Come up with your own lines

Seemed appropriate.

No.

I was bitching about one thing - required participation. It ruined the class, as people who normally wouldn't participate talked all class long to ensure they got their 10%. This wasn't a consequence to anything. I couldn't chang this fact, and it was decided before I ever entered the classroom.

I then decided that class was not worth my time, and then I knew that the consequence would be that I would have to score well to get an A. And I lived with the consequence by doing just that.

Living with the consequences isn't the combination of "living" and "suffering the consequences." Living with the consequences is "I did it, I went through it, whatever." Going to the internet to bitch about them isn't really living with the consequences.

The 2/10 doesn't bother me - I chose to get that by not "participating". What bothers me is that the class was a waste.

Would the class have been a waste if you actually participated? Or is actually doing something not what you are good at?

Couldn't be done, as the "participators" hogged up the whole class anyway, and he couldn't advance further, as the "participators" didn't even get the basic material.

Professors are people with brains, too. If you ever bothered to do anything, you'd notice they tend to shift their habits to call on those that have more interesting and thought provoking responses. You leave him to call on garbage, that's all he can call on.

Keep jerking off; I'm sure it feels nice

Reading comprehension must not be your cup of tea. Th sentence implies that I'm really not that great, just great when I'm compared to someone really, really bad. It's less of a commentary on how good I am (quite the opposite), just how completely bad you are.

No, I just have to point out that I didn't get a bad grade, otherwise you would have just replied "Oh you are just whining because you got a bad grade" when that isn't the case.

Actually, I wouldn't have said that at all. If you had gotten an 85 in the class, I'd have probably said "Well, next time if you participate, you can get an A" using it as a teaching moment rather than bothering to point out that you are merely a whiner. If you got a D, I'd have told you that you have bigger things to worry about, like how you get such a poor grade in such an "easy" class.

But you are going to be mad no matter what, as long as it makes you feel better about yourself

After I kicked her out this morning, your mom gave me this note to give to you.

Dumac,
Just remember, no one ever says negative about you is true. It's obviously wrong and they are either mad or jealous. If something negative happens to you in any way, it's someone else's fault. You are perfect in every way and shouldn't be required to take any responsibility. Signed, Dumac's Mom.

 

[Dumac]

Boy, it makes a world of difference!

Just confirming your clarification.

I doubt it paid off in the long run, unless you did some amazingly fantastic things in that extra hour, which at college, seems very unlikely. It paid off in the short run without any negative consequences in the long run.

Hour and a half a day, two days a week means 3 hours a week. As the weeks go on, it start to add up.

Living with the consequences isn't the combination of "living" and "suffering the consequences." Living with the consequences is "I did it, I went through it, whatever." Going to the internet to bitch about them isn't really living with the consequences.

That is what the internet is for, my friend. You are here too, bitching about my bitching. You aren't any different If bitching wasn't allowed on the internet, AT forums wouldn't exist.

Would the class have been a waste if you actually participated? Or is actually doing something not what you are good at?

You sure do make a lot of assumptions. I do stuff all the time. Your insult is meaningless.

Professors are people with brains, too. If you ever bothered to do anything, you'd notice they tend to shift their habits to call on those that have more interesting and thought provoking responses. You leave him to call on garbage, that's all he can call on.

I told you, I tried asking a couple questions. It didn't work out that well. Sure, I could have kept trying, but I didn't really see the payoff.

Reading comprehension must not be your cup of tea. Th sentence implies that I'm really not that great, just great when I'm compared to someone really, really bad. It's less of a commentary on how good I am (quite the opposite), just how completely bad you are.

Aye, and by insulting me, you are just trying to make yourself feel better, i.e. jerking off.

Actually, I wouldn't have said that at all. If you had gotten an 85 in the class, I'd have probably said "Well, next time if you participate, you can get an A" using it as a teaching moment rather than bothering to point out that you are merely a whiner. If you got a D, I'd have told you that you have bigger things to worry about, like how you get such a poor grade in such an "easy" class.

Sure you would have. I'm sure you would have been just peachy

After I kicked her out this morning, your mom gave me this note to give to you.

Dumac,
Just remember, no one ever says negative about you is true. It's obviously wrong and they are either mad or jealous. If something negative happens to you in any way, it's someone else's fault. You are perfect in every way and shouldn't be required to take any responsibility. Signed, Dumac's Mom.

Now you are stooping so low as to insult me and my mother by claiming you had sex with her, and then kicked her out? You really are a shining beacon of hope. I'm sure you treat women with much respect and were a great addition to college discussions.

This conversation is done. All you've done is insult me without bringing up any valid points. We've hogged enough thread space anyway. Let's just call it quits, aye? Before you start talking about how you had sex with other, random family members or say 'bitch' again.

 

[GotIssues]

Hour and a half a day, two days a week means 3 hours a week. As the weeks go on, it start to add up.

What did you accomplish during that time? Cold fusion? Did you a) study/work or b) goof off?

I'm not saying it wasn't worth it. Lord knows I skipped a class or two. I'm just saying that "paid off" would imply something worthwhile and productive came from it, when in all liklihood, you pissed away the extra time you had. Worth it, yes. Paid off? No.

That is what the internet is for, my friend. You are here too, bitching about my bitching. You aren't any different If bitching wasn't allowed on the internet, AT forums wouldn't exist.

Most forums wouldn't. However, yours is bitching that really shouldn't exist because it's just trying to pass off the responsibility of action and just blaming someone else. Had you actually tried to participate, the class would have been different. Instead, you pouted, took your ball, and went home.

You sure do make a lot of assumptions. I do stuff all the time. Your insult is meaningless.

Not half as many assumptions as you've made about me. Your attempt at deflection is meaningless.

I told you, I tried asking a couple questions. It didn't work out that well. Sure, I could have kept trying, but I didn't really see the payoff.

Oh, sad. You tried twice and failed. Obviously you should just give up, because nothing worth having should require work.

Aye, and by insulting me, you are just trying to make yourself feel better, i.e. jerking off.

No, I'm merely telling you how it is. Just because someone tells you something that you don't like to hear doesn't mean that it's something self-serving and self-gratifying.

Sure you would have. I'm sure you would have been just peachy

No, I'd have been a dick about it, but I wouldn't have said that you were just crying about a bad grade.

Now you are stooping so low as to insult me and my mother by claiming you had sex with her, and then kicked her out? You really are a shining beacon of hope.

Oh, did I hurt your feelings? My mistake. I figured if beating you over the head over and over again with the point wasn't working, I'd try a different tactic.

I'm sure you treat women with much respect and were a great addition to college discussions.

Character attacks. Love them. Mark of a desperate man. I treat women very, very well. I've always had women out of my league, on great terms with all ex's and their parents. I give respect to those that deserve it, tough love to those that need it, and generally ignore those that deserve no respect.

I'm the person my friends ask for advice because I have a surprisingly diverse background and I won't sugar coat things, if they are in the wrong, I'll tell them.

As for college discussions, I spoke when there is something to be said, and kept quiet when there wasn't. I didn't waste people's time, and I did contribute quite a bit to classroom discussions.

This conversation is done. All you've done is insult me without bringing up any valid points. We've hogged enough thread space anyway. Let's just call it quits, aye? Before you start talking about how you had sex with other, random family members or say 'bitch' again.

If you ignore everything said, I've had no valid points.

You are right, this conversation is over. No matter which way it's presented to you, you still can't seem to grasp that the world doesn't owe you shit and doesn't bend to what you want it to be through no action of your own. Sometimes you have to suck it up and do something you don't necessarily like to (like class participation) accomplish something. Sure, this particular class didn't mean much from your non-participation, but somewhere along the road, you'll be back here, crying again over having to do something you don't want to do and because you didn't do it, you suffered. I'm the type of person that doesn't accept excuses, you are the type of person that only has excuses.

 

[Perknose]

They are inherently contributory to the development of any person's erudition and logical skills. You'e never had their benefit, and it shows.

You literally don't know what you are nevertheless opining about, and so exhibit the laughably smug self-assuredness of the confident ignoramus.

A decade or so from now, if your personal intellectual growth does not remain so sorrowfully stunted, you will look back and be embarrassed by what you just posted.

Mark Twain put it best; it may just take you a bit longer:

"When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years."

There is no content in this post to refute with anything more than a simple "no u". So no u.

I understand that your callow, stunted and starved lack of erudition and your tragically truncated vocabulary necessarily limit your response to a scintillating and incisive "no u."

You are a living, (mouth) breathing, example of ignorance so ignorant it cannot comprehend its own ignorance.