Randy Johnson got robbed...

[anxi80]

it happens. damn, randy had impressive numbers and even had a perfect game and everything this year. if its any solace, greene got robbed for nl rookie of the year. sure bay's offensive numbers were a little better, but greene's defense and not half bad offense should of gave him the title. oh well.

 

[chuckywang]

Originally posted by: anxi80
it happens. damn, randy had impressive numbers and even had a perfect game and everything this year. if its any solace, greene got robbed for nl rookie of the year. sure bay's offensive numbers were a little better, but greene's defense and not half bad offense should of gave him the title. oh well.

Greene was injured at the end of the season. that kinda killed his chances at ROY.

 

[anxi80]

Originally posted by: chuckywang
Greene was injured at the end of the season. that kinda killed his chances at ROY.

even after the fact he played 19 games more than bay, and was still utilized in small roles (ie: pinch running, hitting) during his injury? im not trying to be a smart-ass, im seriously asking with some facts behind my questioning.

 

[chuckywang]

.....................G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG

Greene: .......139 484 67 132 31 4 15 65 216 53 94 4 2 .349 .446 .273
Bay: ............120 411 61 116 24 4 26 82 226 41 129 4 6 .358 .550 .282

I guess you're right about the games. Hmm, perhaps Bay won it on OPS and RBI? I dunno, it's a very close call.

 

[lizardboy]

Originally posted by: TheNinja

Originally posted by: hdeck
wins matter most. congrats roger.

Look at the stats. Roger had only 2 more wins than Randy and Randy beat him in the other 4 categories -- and these are the categories that he can actually control. How Randy could not get the Cy Young is beyond me. And how it was such a large % in favor of Roger boggles my mind even more. Perhaps b/c Randy is so dominate year in and year out he gets overlooked a lot:

None of Randy's starts mattered this year, Clemens was huge down the stretch for the Astros. If you pitch for a POS team, you have to (1) have an AMAZING year, and (2) have there be no other viable candidate who played for a playoff-bound team. This is true about the Cy Young and MVP evey year. For every A-Rod or Ripken who won it playing for a last-place team, there's a dozen players with lesser stats who won MVP/CY b/c they played games that actually mattered.

Clemens was an easy choice over Johnson this year, and the voting reflected that. Plus I think it hurt Randy that he declined an opportunity to be traded to a contender. If he had done that and pitched well, it would have been much closer.

 

[Doggiedog]

I didn't follow his games this year but his ERA could have been inflated because of 1 or 2 bad games. The lower ERA doesn't necessarily mean he was better overall.

 

[marcello]

Green's defense was vastly overrated. Yeah he made flashy plays, but that's not good defense. It means many times, if he had better range, he could have made a routine play instead of a flashy one. If you look at all his fielding stats (which are still insufficient to measure any defensive player by) you'll see he's near the bottom in every category for SS.

 

[marcello]

Originally posted by: Doggiedog
I didn't follow his games this year but his ERA could have been inflated because of 1 or 2 bad games. The lower ERA doesn't necessarily mean he was better overall.

BAA, walks, and SO's are good indicators that can't really get inflated. Randy, Randy, Randy. Also, wins and losses are stats that get inflated by nature because the pitcher has so little control over them.

 

[EpsiIon]

Originally posted by: PoPPeR

Originally posted by: hdeck
wins matter most. congrats roger.

no, putting your team in position to win matters most. Pitchers don't go 9 innings anymore, they have very little control on their win total.

Originally posted by: TheNinja

Originally posted by: hdeck
wins matter most. congrats roger.

Look at the stats. Roger had only 2 more wins than Randy and Randy beat him in the other 4 categories -- and these are the categories that he can actually control. How Randy could not get the Cy Young is beyond me. And how it was such a large % in favor of Roger boggles my mind even more. Perhaps b/c Randy is so dominate year in and year out he gets overlooked a lot:

...

Bahahahaha! That was such an obvious troll... You guys got owned.

 

[Syringer]

Originally posted by: Strang

Originally posted by: BlamoHammer
This is nothing new. Everyone always looks at wins as a defining statistic for a pitcher when in fact, wins are one of the last things you should look at when determining a pitchers success. Lets use a couple examples:

Pitcher A: 18-9, 5.00 ERA
Pitcher B: 14-10 2.80 ERA

While improbable, the above situation is completely possible. Just because Pitcher A wins more games does this make him a better pitcher? No, it simply means he was lucky enough to play for a team with a potent offense that scored enough to make up for his inadeqacy on the mound. If I'm making choices, give me the pitcher with the better individual statistics regardless of how many games he's won.

Yep. It's just like how the MVP is usually the best player on the best team (or more likely, the player with the best stats on a contending team) rather than a guy who would be the difference between 3rd in a division and 5th.

But there's a major difference between MVP and Cy Young. MVP means most VALUABLE player to the team, in other words it's basically a measure of how well your team did with you compared to if they didn't have it.

Cy Young however is simply the best pitcher in the league in the year, the team one plays on should be 100% irrelevant to who the award goes to.

 

[Syringer]

And oh yeah, screw OHIO.

 

[poopaskoopa]

The writers didn't screw Johnson. His teammates did.

 

[PoPPeR]

Originally posted by: EpsiIon

Originally posted by: PoPPeR

Originally posted by: hdeck
wins matter most. congrats roger.

no, putting your team in position to win matters most. Pitchers don't go 9 innings anymore, they have very little control on their win total.

Originally posted by: TheNinja

Originally posted by: hdeck
wins matter most. congrats roger.

Look at the stats. Roger had only 2 more wins than Randy and Randy beat him in the other 4 categories -- and these are the categories that he can actually control. How Randy could not get the Cy Young is beyond me. And how it was such a large % in favor of Roger boggles my mind even more. Perhaps b/c Randy is so dominate year in and year out he gets overlooked a lot:

...

Bahahahaha! That was such an obvious troll... You guys got owned.

huh?

 

[Weeeman]

Originally posted by: TheNinja

Originally posted by: hdeck
wins matter most. congrats roger.

Look at the stats. Roger had only 2 more wins than Randy and Randy beat him in the other 4 categories -- and these are the categories that he can actually control. How Randy could not get the Cy Young is beyond me. And how it was such a large % in favor of Roger boggles my mind even more. Perhaps b/c Randy is so dominate year in and year out he gets overlooked a lot:

ERA:
Johnson #2 with 2.60
Clemens #5 with 2.98

WHIP:
Johnson #1 with 0.90
Clemens #8 with 1.16

BAA:
Johnson #1 with .197
Clemens #4 with .217

Ks:
Johnson #1 with 290!
Clemens #5 with 218

Wins:
Clemens 3-way tie for #2 with 18
Johnson 3-way tie for #5 with 16

But what came out of his season? A whole lot of nothing? The Astros won the last 9 games clemens pitched, excluding playoffs [he may not get the W, but still] Every game they played meant something, every game RJ played, meant.. oh wait

 

[oogabooga]

i dunno, i think clemens is a good pitcher, but it seems johnson was better this season. *shrugs* -

There's always next year (the true sports fan adage)

 

[MDE]

Originally posted by: oogabooga
i dunno, i think clemens is a good pitcher, but it seems johnson was better this season. *shrugs* -

There's always next year (the true sports fan adage)

That would be the Cubs fan's addage .