Random Thoughts on Starcraft 2

[Starbuck1975]

I was a big fan of the Warhammer 40k universe, and when Starcraft came out, I considered it the closest thing I would ever see to a Warhammer 40k RTS game...I mean, let's face it:

Terrans = Space Marines
Protoss = Eldar
Zerg = Tyranids

Now don't get me wrong, I thought Starcraft was a brilliant RTS given the time it came out...three very different factions with unique abilities, compelling campaigns and that magic Blizzard touch of gaming craftsmanship...but it still followed the rock/paper/scissors formula of unit balancing first introduced by Dune 2 and the C&C series...Starcraft didn't really revolutionize the RTS genre...it was simply the most polished and well crafted RTS to leverage the tried and true Westwood formula.

Then Dawn of War came out...finally, a true Warhammer 40k game that captured all of the violence, intensity and insanity of that universe. But despite its obvious ties to Warhammer 40k, Starcraft did manage to carve out a mythos of its own, and a part of me has always wanted to play another game in that universe.

Which is why the announcement of Starcraft 2 both excites and disappoints...most gamers have fond memories of Starcraft, but I am a bit surprised by Blizzard's decision to keep the core gameplay essentially the same...I am glad they aren't throwing another faction into the mix just because they can, but I was hoping that Starcraft 2 would incorporate some of the changes in the RTS genre since Starcraft first came out.

Granted, the screenshots available thus far look incredible, but I am worried that the gameplay will remain essentially the same to Starcraft, which for me is a bad thing...I got tired of the C&C forum after Red Alert, and haven't really touched another basebuilding & tank rush RTS since.

Company of Heroes, Rise of Nations, Homeworld, the Total War series and Dawn of War all stand out as RTS games that raised the bar in terms of gameplay dynamics, with Supreme Commander introducing an additional tier of sheer magnitude.

I am sure Starcraft 2 will sell like mad, but I probably won't be the first in line and will wait to see how it fairs on reviews.


Locked necro.

Anandtech PC Gaming Moderator
KeithTalent

 

[GundamSonicZeroX]

Yeah, I put StarCraft down myself after I got a hold of WarHammer 40K Dawn of War. I loved the WarHammer tabletop game, but I didn't have the money to buy bigger and bigger armies and to keep up with my friends. So, when I heard of an RTS I freaking flipped! Well, back on topic, I'm guessing that Blizzard is either being lazy sods and not thinking of a way to spice things up, or that the fans of the original just want the same thing.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: GundamSonicZeroX
Yeah, I put StarCraft down myself after I got a hold of WarHammer 40K Dawn of War. I loved the WarHammer tabletop game, but I didn't have the money to buy bigger and bigger armies and to keep up with my friends. So, when I heard of an RTS I freaking flipped! Well, back on topic, I'm guessing that Blizzard is either being lazy sods and not thinking of a way to spice things up, or that the fans of the original just want the same thing.

i loved dawn of war too, but i find that starcraft has a character and replayability (partially because of the custom maps) that no other RTS i've played can touch, not by a million miles.

 

[Maximilian]

Starcraft 2 will have different strategies and gameplay. Check out all the units they are changing and removing, it will be a very different game to starcraft.

Hopefully the custom maps, awesome music, and ability to backstab will all remain as to me these are core elements of starcrafts gameplay and the reasons why it is still popular today.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: GundamSonicZeroX
Yeah, I put StarCraft down myself after I got a hold of WarHammer 40K Dawn of War. I loved the WarHammer tabletop game, but I didn't have the money to buy bigger and bigger armies and to keep up with my friends. So, when I heard of an RTS I freaking flipped! Well, back on topic, I'm guessing that Blizzard is either being lazy sods and not thinking of a way to spice things up, or that the fans of the original just want the same thing.

i loved dawn of war too, but i find that starcraft has a character and replayability (partially because of the custom maps) that no other RTS i've played can touch, not by a million miles.

There are plenty of custom maps and mods here. Enjoy.

http://dawnofwar.filefront.com

 

[lupi]

I always liked TA1 more than SC1, and doubt the TA2 vs SC2 will change that; particularly when the SC2 developers say they are trying to design the game so that multiplayer matches will take no more than about 20 minutes.

 

[invidia]

If the game is as slow as it was in the gameplay video, that'll make me a sad panda. Hopefully, the gameplay was on slow setting for demonstration. I don't want a warcraft 3 with starcraft units and no heroes.

 

[Acanthus]

Im not seeing how anyone is wowed by starcraft 2s graphics.

Especially since knowing blizzard, we will have supreme commander 4 out before starcraft 2.

 

[imported_Imp]

Starcraft/Warcraft style never really wow'd me, and Starcraft 2 doesn't look all too special. It's a sequel, which is nice, but I'm more interested in the Total War series and Company of Heroes styles. Oh, and I suck hardcore at Warcraft and Starcraft, so that doesn't help.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: GundamSonicZeroX
Yeah, I put StarCraft down myself after I got a hold of WarHammer 40K Dawn of War. I loved the WarHammer tabletop game, but I didn't have the money to buy bigger and bigger armies and to keep up with my friends. So, when I heard of an RTS I freaking flipped! Well, back on topic, I'm guessing that Blizzard is either being lazy sods and not thinking of a way to spice things up, or that the fans of the original just want the same thing.

i loved dawn of war too, but i find that starcraft has a character and replayability (partially because of the custom maps) that no other RTS i've played can touch, not by a million miles.

There are plenty of custom maps and mods here. Enjoy.

http://dawnofwar.filefront.com

DoW has nothing like starcraft's "Use Map Settings" play though - that's the level of customization that makes starcraft so awesome.

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Im not seeing how anyone is wowed by starcraft 2s graphics.

Especially since knowing blizzard, we will have supreme commander 4 out before starcraft 2.

since when did graphics make a great game? starcraft looks like crap, but it's the most competitive RTS still, even after 10 years! 10 years! and it has bundles of character over the robots of SupCom.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

if user created content is your thing then take a look at Total Annihilation...there has to be 10x more maps and units out there for TA than Starcraft.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
if user created content is your thing then take a look at Total Annihilation...there has to be 10x more maps and units out there for TA than Starcraft.

see lack of character - every unit is a robot i can't stand all the robotic whines when i click on a unit.

"jacked up and good to go" ftw :thumbsup:

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: GundamSonicZeroX
Yeah, I put StarCraft down myself after I got a hold of WarHammer 40K Dawn of War. I loved the WarHammer tabletop game, but I didn't have the money to buy bigger and bigger armies and to keep up with my friends. So, when I heard of an RTS I freaking flipped! Well, back on topic, I'm guessing that Blizzard is either being lazy sods and not thinking of a way to spice things up, or that the fans of the original just want the same thing.

i loved dawn of war too, but i find that starcraft has a character and replayability (partially because of the custom maps) that no other RTS i've played can touch, not by a million miles.

There are plenty of custom maps and mods here. Enjoy.

http://dawnofwar.filefront.com

DoW has nothing like starcraft's "Use Map Settings" play though - that's the level of customization that makes starcraft so awesome.

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Im not seeing how anyone is wowed by starcraft 2s graphics.

Especially since knowing blizzard, we will have supreme commander 4 out before starcraft 2.

since when did graphics make a great game? starcraft looks like crap, but it's the most competitive RTS still, even after 10 years! 10 years! and it has bundles of character over the robots of SupCom.

Your comment had nothing to do with mine.

Im not saying graphics make the game, im just saying they arent cutting edge, so i dont see how people are calling them "amazing" etc..

 

[VashHT]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: GundamSonicZeroX
Yeah, I put StarCraft down myself after I got a hold of WarHammer 40K Dawn of War. I loved the WarHammer tabletop game, but I didn't have the money to buy bigger and bigger armies and to keep up with my friends. So, when I heard of an RTS I freaking flipped! Well, back on topic, I'm guessing that Blizzard is either being lazy sods and not thinking of a way to spice things up, or that the fans of the original just want the same thing.

i loved dawn of war too, but i find that starcraft has a character and replayability (partially because of the custom maps) that no other RTS i've played can touch, not by a million miles.

There are plenty of custom maps and mods here. Enjoy.

http://dawnofwar.filefront.com

DoW has nothing like starcraft's "Use Map Settings" play though - that's the level of customization that makes starcraft so awesome.

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Im not seeing how anyone is wowed by starcraft 2s graphics.

Especially since knowing blizzard, we will have supreme commander 4 out before starcraft 2.

since when did graphics make a great game? starcraft looks like crap, but it's the most competitive RTS still, even after 10 years! 10 years! and it has bundles of character over the robots of SupCom.

Your comment had nothing to do with mine.

Im not saying graphics make the game, im just saying they arent cutting edge, so i dont see how people are calling them "amazing" etc..

Good point, even though graphics don't make a game, just because you think a game is good doesn't make the graphics good. Personally I think the graphics in SC2 are worse than some of the RTS's out now like CoH and WiC, but thats not surprising since I think its using an upgraded warcraft 3 engine(correct me if I'm wrong). Anyway I've never thought that custom maps make the original game any better. For example, in Starcraft I could't stand playing the normal game online, instead I only played custom games. That means for me Starcraft wasn't really a good game in istelf, the fans who customized it made good mini games though. Warcraft 3 I played the main game online a ton, and I still play he custom games for it.

I have to agree with a lot of people though, after CoH and other newer RTS's have come out with tons of new gameplay mechanics it makes the original style of RTS seem far more dated than it did before.

 

[AllGamer]

The Map Editor... that's the key to success for Blizzard, and that's what kept SC alive for so long, sames goes for WC3

Yes, all the newer games are slightly "better" they added new stuff and raised the bar as you call it, but..... still those games have no replayability value, the only thing that does stick with me from the new games, is the 3D engine used in Total Wars series, and how well it works on GRAND SCALE battles, the same sort of "grand scale" assault in WC3 3D engine will LAG the average computer, and from the pictures it seems like SC2 is going to be using the same 3D engine from WC3, maybe a little bit more polished, i don't know.

C&C Generals tried to copy StarCraft success but failed miserably, even with their own version of Map Editor. That's why in C&C 3 you don't even see one included anymore.

Also on a side note, i finished C&C 3 and it's hella boring, totally no replay value, for a game that takes 4 GB to install in HDD.... it's kinda lame.

I'm so totally looking forward to SC2, can't wait to try out the new Map Editor and port over all the maps from SC and WC3 into the SC2 world

 

[lupi]

TA1 was much better than SC, in graphics and play.

And when the TA2 expansion comes out, there will be over 100 unit types in the game.

Also only TA gives a 3d battlefield compared to SC 2d.

And while TA2 was created to allow quality large map gameplay, Blizz wants each match to be over in 20 minutes, holy consoleitis batman.

 

[AllGamer]

LOL well that's true

Blizzard is trying to make all their games Ladder-able, so they design their games with speed in mind, for LAN fest and competitions, etc in BattleNet.

meanwhile Total Wars series of games is geared towards single and multiplayer game play with NO RUSH in mind

Can you imagine in a ladder fight or LAN party when they host those yearly Game Conventions by blizzard, and every single battle takes over 1.5 hour or more to finish?

it takes them weeks to sort out the Ladder winner.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
if user created content is your thing then take a look at Total Annihilation...there has to be 10x more maps and units out there for TA than Starcraft.

see lack of character - every unit is a robot i can't stand all the robotic whines when i click on a unit.

"jacked up and good to go" ftw :thumbsup:

there is a mod for that...there is a mod for everything in TA. Play some of the non-cheating AIs if you want a real challenge against the computer.

 

[Skacer]

There are too many "anti-resource" RTS games out now, Which gives SC2 plenty of room to set down classic style of gameplay. I am very glad with the style they have chosen with SC2. They could always make a new IP if they want to try something new. A lot of developers who try something new on their best IPs cause a schism that the series never recovers from.

 

[I4AT]

The only thing that kept SC alive for so long is Korea, not graphics, or map editors, or crappy UMS mods. I wouldn't say it's the most balanced RTS in the world, because I haven't played them all, but the difference lies in the player base. The guys that play this game professionally are so damn inhuman, and just constantly pushing the envelope, that they give the illusion of SC being the most balanced and frenzied RTS of all time.

It's kind of like with fighting games, the developers just throw all these things together, and then the dedicated fans take everything that's been given, and they toy with it until it turns into something the devs couldn't even have dreamed of. Both games like Street Fighter and SC hold up to years of intense competitive play, and have huge followings that the typical casual player has no idea even exists.

And Blizzard recognizes that, before they start appealing to the masses that'll buy their game give it a few plays and put it back in the box, they take SC2 right to the source that's kept the original alive since it first came out, and make their big announcement overseas.

 

[AllGamer]

Originally posted by: Skacer
There are too many "anti-resource" RTS games out now, Which gives SC2 plenty of room to set down classic style of gameplay. I am very glad with the style they have chosen with SC2. They could always make a new IP if they want to try something new. A lot of developers who try something new on their best IPs cause a schism that the series never recovers from.

Sounds like you are describing C&C series

by far RedAlert had the best of everything, since then every release has been a "trial" of something new, but with no success.

Generals has its ups and downs, new 3D engine instead of 2D, and other minor stuff, but game play and story sucked big time, compared to RA

C&C 3 the latest one, it's a even newer 3D than Generals, but again storyline sucks, and the game play is even worse than Generals

if they could just bring the good old RA features in either 3D engine, then it'll be great.

Also if they make a more matured Map and Mission editor like in StarCraft / WarCraft 3 then it just might regain its tittle as the best RTS.

but without a good storyline, it still will all falls apart.

Blizzard wasn't the first, but they are on the top in RTS, because their storylines and game plays holds together, and their Map/Mission editors builded a huge community that supported it.

That! is what C&C lacks, there's no sense of community there, because there was never a need for it, people just turn on the game and fight - The End.... there isn't much fun on that, after a few rounds, it gets boring.

 

[PingSpike]

Why would they change it? Its a sequel to a game that has remained popular for 10 years. And I've heard tons of people, myself included say if they just updated the graphics and re-released it they would buy it again happily. There's no reason to reinvent the wheel here and alienate existing fans...there are enough existing fans that catering to them is going to be a winning strategy.

As for the graphics? Par for the course with blizzard...Starcraft looked like crap when it came out too. Blizzard hasn't ever been particularly concerned with having cutting edge technology.

 

[hooflung]

I hate RTS games. Last one I liked was Warzone 2100 which I still have. I alwasy wanted to try SC but in honesty I can't be arsed. Its ugly and well... I like graphics.

SC2 I am sure will be nearly the same recipe. I probably won't ever complete the game. But... I'll buy it. Why? DotA.

SC2 graphics, WC3-like editing tools? Win. The end. Take TA and SuCom and shove it. I want PVP and I want to flex my programming skills.

 

[Ruptga]

I got into RTSs with Red Alert Retaliation on the PS1, since then I've bought CnC TFD (their bundle pack) and have gone through everything on the disk. I've gotta say Generals Zero Hour is my favorite, there's more strategy to it than RA2 where you send a spy into their refinery, barracks, and war factory, then pwn them with superior numbers of superior forces while their base is powered down because your spy got into a power plant too. I've also tried the demo of SC and am looking forward to SC2, and eventually I'm going to build a rig that will run SupCom, I'm really looking forward to trying everything, though I'm less than excited about CnC3, I've never been much for the tiberium series.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

so OP, did you buy SC2 or not?