Rancher Ordered To Pay Illegal Aliens Because He Assaulted Them On His Property

[Bowfinger]

B.S. I said liberals because that's who I was talking to, liberals. ...

Whatever, rationalize it however you wish. The fact remains you are quite one-sided in your attacks, routinely blasting the left while offering only token criticisms -- at most -- of the right. That is why you are perceived to be Republican, whether you accept it as accurate or not.

In short, actions speak louder than words.

(I'll also note the irony of you freely assigning labels to others while crying about others applying them to you. "That's who I was talking to, liberals.")

I've already said I'm not a NeoCon, not a Rep, certainly I'm not a liberal...

Those are words. The fact remains you are quite one-sided in your attacks, routinely blasting the left while offering only token criticisms -- at most -- of the right. That is why you are perceived to be Republican, whether you accept it as accurate or not.

You also parroted pretty much verbatim all the neo-con excuses for invading Iraq, and summarily dismissed all evidence to the contrary. That is why you are perceived to be a neo-con, whether you accept it as accurate or not.

Once again, actions speak louder than words.

I guess I'm fiscally conservative, socially liberal, all Realist. What does that make me on the label scale?

Frankly, I don't care. My responses to you aren't based on labels. They're based on your actions, i.e., the positions you've taken and the attacks you've made.

Yes, labels sometimes simplify discussion, and yes they can lead people to start with bad assumptions, but ultimately they don't really matter. You can call yourself whatever makes you feel better about yourself or helps you sleep at night. People generally don't care. While they may make generalizations about you, it will be prompted by an action, not a label.

Please read earlier in the thread. I've already debunked that I'm a NeoCon. Keep trying to label me though, it'll be easier to target once you've got a label that'll stick.

Those are words. The fact remains you are quite one-sided in your attacks, routinely blasting the left while offering only token criticisms -- at most -- of the right. You also parroted pretty much verbatim all the neo-con excuses for invading Iraq, and summarily dismissed all evidence to the contrary. That is why you are perceived to be a neo-con, whether you accept it as accurate or not.

Once again, actions speak louder than words.

I never said, All liberals are the 100% reason why we have illegal invasion...but, we both know I didn't say that, don't we.

Nor did I say otherwise. I just pointed out it was liberals and only liberals you had blamed at that point in the discussion.

The illegal invasion has long since passed the point of shoot from the hip. I guaran godd@mn t you, if it was you and your family and property on the border down there, and your neighbor was murdered, your friends and family were endangered, assaulted, vandalized, and your Fed government was basically doing almost everything it could do to not stop the invasion, you'd be right out there with your gun rounding up illegals in your spare time. You'd be a total and complete F'ing idiot not to. The invading illegals have turned it back into the Wild West for the US locals there...hard to keep following laws in that environment, and I'm sure not blaming the guy from 1800 miles away.

Chuck

Whatever. I can guarantee you I would not be doing that because I'm not an idiot. It's stupid, reckless, and far more likely to lead to your own injury or death. It would appear most of his neighbors are also not idiots since apparently none of them have been sued -- twice -- for taking the law into their own hands as he did. When we start seeing hundreds of such stories, maybe then we'll agree the residents of the area have been forced to act. For now, his actions are far outside the norm.

 

[soundforbjt]

^^^You do realize, IIRC, that illegal immigration is down under Obama and he has also deported more then Bush did. But please continue with your "invasion" rant.

 

[chucky2]

^^^You do realize, IIRC, that illegal immigration is down under Obama and he has also deported more then Bush did. But please continue with your "invasion" rant.

Saying illegal invasion is "down" under Obama vs. Bush is like saying I only shot 900,000 sperm into your daughter instead of 1.2M sperm into your daughter: You're good with those numbers, Right?

 

[chucky2]

snip

Whatever. Your words on the subject add up to meaningless.

I'll videotape my next voting trip, then you have your have non-word "proof" that I'm not a NeoCon or whatever convenient label you need to label me as.

By the time that happens, another 2M illegals will be here....makes ya feel good right?

Chuck

 

[manimal]

^^^You do realize, IIRC, that illegal immigration is down under Obama and he has also deported more then Bush did. But please continue with your "invasion" rant.

dont bring facts to ideology parties....oil and water...

 

[Bowfinger]

Whatever. Your words on the subject add up to meaningless.

I'll videotape my next voting trip, then you have your have non-word "proof" that I'm not a NeoCon or whatever convenient label you need to label me as.

By the time that happens, another 2M illegals will be here....makes ya feel good right?

Chuck

With all due respect, are you reading impaired? I don't give a rat's ass about what you call yourself or how you vote. I responded to the positions you took and the attacks you made in this thread. If your voting is inconsistent with those positions and attacks, I guess you're just one messed up dude ... but I really don't care.

You are the one who seems to be so infatuated with labels. Indeed, you mostly seem to use them as a diversion, hiding behind them to avoid addressing criticisms of your actions. Are you capable of actually defending them, or is "Waah, you're calling me mean names!" all you have?

 

[soundforbjt]

Saying illegal invasion is "down" under Obama vs. Bush is like saying I only shot 900,000 sperm into your daughter instead of 1.2M sperm into your daughter: You're good with those numbers, Right?

Since I don't have a daughter, yep, no problem. But you do have a low sperm count.

Amazing that you use all the catch phrases and talking points of the right-wing pundits, yet you "claim" you don't watch or listen to them...guess they just happen to know exactly how you think...

 

[Bowfinger]

dont bring facts to ideology parties....oil and water...

Otherwise known as the P&N Axiom.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

dont bring facts to ideology parties....oil and water...

Facts?

Under the Obama adminstration sending letters to illegals to "Please GTFO" is considered to be "deportation".

 

[Zebo]

Saying illegal invasion is "down" under Obama vs. Bush is like saying I only shot 900,000 sperm into your daughter instead of 1.2M sperm into your daughter: You're good with those numbers, Right?

Way I see it is USA will be a lot like Mexico aka "The China model" - really good book how the elites are merging their corporations and state and a global wealthy elite who knows no borders shift capital/factories around and leave most in poverty and destitution. Free trade, off-shoring, in-shoring, open borders are all just part of that. Nothing much you can do but get on the right side of the fault line.

 

[Amused]

I don't know.. I was just posing the question "what would Jesus do?"

LOL

And I answered with the result of what he did.

 

[Moonbeam]

LOL

And I answered with the result of what he did.

No you didn't. You answered with what you are capable of seeing.

4:1 And he began again to teach by the sea side: and there was gathered unto him a great multitude, so that he entered into a ship, and sat in the sea; and the whole multitude was by the sea on the land.

4:2 And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine,

4:3 Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow:

4:4 And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.

4:5 And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth:

4:6 But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.

4:7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit.

4:8 And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.

4:9 And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

4:10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.

4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

4:13 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?

4:14 The sower soweth the word.

4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

4:16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;

4:17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.

4:18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,

4:19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

4:20 And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.

4:21 And he said unto them, Is a candle brought to be put under a bushel, or under a bed? and not to be set on a candlestick?

4:22 For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad.

4:23 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

4:24 And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.

4:25 For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.

4:26 And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground;

4:27 And should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should spring and grow up, he knoweth not how.

4:28 For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear.

4:29 But when the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come.

4:30 And he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it?

4:31 It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that be in the earth:

4:32 But when it is sown, it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs, and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air may lodge under the shadow of it.

4:33 And with many such parables spake he the word unto them, as they were able to hear it.

4:34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

4:35 And the same day, when the even was come, he saith unto them, Let us pass over unto the other side.

4:36 And when they had sent away the multitude, they took him even as he was in the ship. And there were also with him other little ships.

4:37 And there arose a great storm of wind, and the waves beat into the ship, so that it was now full.

4:38 And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow: and they awake him, and say unto him, Master, carest thou not that we perish?

4:39 And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm.

4:40 And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?

4:41 And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What manner of man is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him?

 

[zsdersw]

LOL

And I answered with the result of what he did.

You answered with what he had done to him, not what he did himself.

 

[fskimospy]

I notice you didn't address my point. How about it? If memory serves, you're a therapist or councilor, right? You probably work in an office, probably have some books you reference, a computer you use to make appointments, pay taxes, do accounts. Suppose every week or so someone breaks into your office. Your computer is stolen, your furniture is busted up for firewood, your books torn up for toilet paper. Your home too is not safe; groups of men cross through your children's playground, break in and steal everything if your home is left unattended, vandalize your home and your car so that your wife is afraid to go to the mailbox or answer the door or even stay home alone without a gun. Occasionally one of your fellow councilors or one of your neighbors is murdered. And this goes on for weeks, months, years. And the police say it isn't their problem, it's someone else's problem, and the federal government says if you endanger or threaten these people then it's come down on you, and people in other states tell you that the vast majority of these people are extremely poor, honest, hard working people just trying to make a better life, and if you've got a problem with them then you're a racist or "nativist". (After all, it's not YOUR apartment or YOUR office, it's the world's home and office.)

Can you honestly put yourself in his position?

I'm absolutely not a therapist or a councilor. I was in the military until I was 26, now I work in public policy while doing some grad work at NYU.

I didn't address your point because its hyperbole.

 

[darkewaffle]

Oh man if this is what happens here every day I could get used to it, this is such good material.

And holyshit at all the Bill Cuttings in this thread. Just the unadulterated hate and fear and intolerance of anyone for such arbitrary reasons is quite mindbottling.

You can paint whatever picture you want of aliens as violent criminals or evil vagrants or mindless animals or whatever it is you have in mind. But whatever terrible things you think them guilty of, Americans are just as guilty. Burglary? Check. Vandalism? Check. Destruction of property? Check. Assault? Murder? Rape? Check check check.

The only difference? An invisible line.

 

[fskimospy]

I don't. They were on his land. They knew they were not suppose to be there. Hell they knew they weren't even suppose to be in this country, let alone his land. The fact they got threatened in a language I doubt any of the spoke matters not. The fact that he was brandishing a fire arm at them shouldn't matter as they were not were they were suppose to be. He did not shoot or injure any of them. If I was them I would have been glad I didn't get shot for being where I was not suppose to be.

Be hey, if you don't agree with this, I suggest trying this on for size. Pick a military base near where you live. Then try to trespass. See what happens. If you don't end up with any additional holes in your body I'd be surprised.

Have you ever been to a military base in your entire life? Having stood watch more times than I would ever wish to remember at the various entrances to military bases I can easily tell you that if you tried to trespass there you would not 'end up with additional holes in your body'. They have police there like everywhere else, and you would be arrested for trespassing like anywhere else.

What did you think, that the military routinely opens fire on people here in America? I have no idea where people get these ridiculous ideas.

 

[cKGunslinger]

With all due respect, you're really not very bright.

Understatement of the thread.

I've been accused of being a gun-happy, ultra-right wing conservative in the past, but even I know that you don't get to kidnap people and hold them hostage at gunpoint (possibly kicking them,) unless you've witnessed them committing a felony or felt your life was in danger. Illegal aliens are not welcome in this country, but fucked-in-the-head armed vigilantes with no self-control and a history of attacking US Citizens are even less welcome in my society.

Wake up in the night and find a stranger with a ski-mask in your living room? Blow them away, no questions asked. That's perfectly cool. But you certainly aren't allowed to shoot Girl Scouts in the face when they ring your doorbell, no matter how many "No Soliciting" sign you have up. Nor are you allowed set up a blind and snipe teenagers who cut across the corner of your back yard, no matter how many do it. People who don't understand this distinction are scary. People who do, but leave out those details in their over-generic "I'm trying to make a point" posts are just douche-bags.

 

[Jaskalas]

Oh man if this is what happens here every day I could get used to it, this is such good material.

And holyshit at all the Bill Cuttings in this thread. Just the unadulterated hate and fear and intolerance of anyone for such arbitrary reasons is quite mindbottling.

You can paint whatever picture you want of aliens as violent criminals or evil vagrants or mindless animals or whatever it is you have in mind. But whatever terrible things you think them guilty of, Americans are just as guilty. Burglary? Check. Vandalism? Check. Destruction of property? Check. Assault? Murder? Rape? Check check check.

The only difference? An invisible line.

The only difference between us and Mexico is an invisible line?

Last I checked their police officers were being butchered in the streets by the dozen. They are in the midst of a war and this violence will easily cross the border along with the people who are a part of it.

 

[PeshakJang]

^^^You do realize, IIRC, that illegal immigration is down under Obama and he has also deported more then Bush did. But please continue with your "invasion" rant.

Flat-out lie, that I've personally debunked several times on these forums.

 

[irishScott]

Understatement of the thread.

I've been accused of being a gun-happy, ultra-right wing conservative in the past, but even I know that you don't get to kidnap people and hold them hostage at gunpoint (possibly kicking them,) unless you've witnessed them committing a felony or felt your life was in danger. Illegal aliens are not welcome in this country, but fucked-in-the-head armed vigilantes with no self-control and a history of attacking US Citizens are even less welcome in my society.

Wake up in the night and find a stranger with a ski-mask in your living room? Blow them away, no questions asked. That's perfectly cool. But you certainly aren't allowed to shoot Girl Scouts in the face when they ring your doorbell, no matter how many "No Soliciting" sign you have up. Nor are you allowed set up a blind and snipe teenagers who cut across the corner of your back yard, no matter how many do it. People who don't understand this distinction are scary. People who do, but leave out those details in their over-generic "I'm trying to make a point" posts are just douche-bags.

This. Where he went wrong was holding them at gunpoint. The most he could do his escort them off his property, or of course defend himself if need be. Should have just informed Border Patrol and let them handle it.

 

[darkewaffle]

The only difference between us and Mexico is an invisible line?

Last I checked their police officers were being butchered in the streets by the dozen. They are in the midst of a war and this violence will easily cross the border along with the people who are a part of it.

Clearly America has no violent problems or history of it's own.

I just think that all humans are human and it's really a pipe dream to believe that so many of our problems are on "them" and not "us;" I think it's extremely arrogant and brutish to believe that the name of your country of origin really makes one group of people superior or inferior.

 

[HumblePie]

Have you ever been to a military base in your entire life? Having stood watch more times than I would ever wish to remember at the various entrances to military bases I can easily tell you that if you tried to trespass there you would not 'end up with additional holes in your body'. They have police there like everywhere else, and you would be arrested for trespassing like anywhere else.

What did you think, that the military routinely opens fire on people here in America? I have no idea where people get these ridiculous ideas.

No I have, and it depends on the base. If you are talking about more of the open bases like say Hickam, or Randolph here in Texas, then the chances of being shot if trespassing are very very slim. But you try that at Norad, or Shreiver, or more closely guarded installations and the chances of being shot for trespassing increase dramatically depending upon the circumstances of the trespass.

 

[HumblePie]

Its my understanding that shooting someone who is retreating, i.e., shooting them in the back, is not considered self-defense also.

:\

Texas doesn't require a self defense clause when it comes to trespassing so it is moot. If you are trespassing on someone else's property with reasonable knowledge that person does not want you on there and you are not there under official capacity (ie such as a law enforcement officer or medical professional) then you are fair game to have any use of force used against you as the owner of the property deems fit. Your actions at the time have no bearing on the use of force the owner may decide to use. End of discussion there.

 

[Jaskalas]

Clearly America has no violent problems or history of it's own.

Clearly our neighbors should have invited that violent problem into their homes, by the tens of millions. Oh right, they never had to do that, because a third (and counting) of all Americans didn't need to flee the country.

I just think that all humans are human

We have nations, borders, a rule of law, for a reason.

That people cannot respect that is a sign of the times we live in. "We're all human" is not enough.

and it's really a pipe dream to believe that so many of our problems are on "them" and not "us;" I think it's extremely arrogant and brutish to believe that the name of your country of origin really makes one group of people superior or inferior.

You'll have a nice field of crops with that strawman. Go find someone it applies to. If you're so keen to fill in the blanks, to reply to me with what you THINK I think, let me fill it in for you. Saves you the trouble of making shit up next time.

Mexico's problems are with its people. A third of its population moved up here, and many counties in our nation are teeming full of poverty stricken violence ridden illegals from south of the border. Most importantly, there's a very real segregation and alienation between them and US citizens. They are not treated as equals, they are an abused underclass akin to slave labor and this scenario is going to explode some day.

Maybe you'll notice it the first time this alienated population assumes majority control of a state, such as California. An impoverished and alienated population within the United States, numbering in the tens of millions (and growing to become a hundred million within our life time) whose national and cultural identity remain with their former home is the biggest domestic crisis we have faced since the civil war.

 

[xj0hnx]

A third of its population moved up here, and many counties in our nation are teeming full of poverty stricken violence ridden illegals from south of the border. Most importantly, there's a very real segregation and alienation between them and US citizens. They are not treated as equals, they are an abused underclass akin to slave labor and this scenario is going to explode some day.

This is for the most part, brought upon themselves. Refusal to learn English, retaining loyalty to Mexico, and and not acclimating to American life is what creates that underclass. I know so many immigrants that are not part of any underclass, they came to America legally, paid their dues, and now reap the rewards.